For liberal Christians only

[Brianlear]

In short, church people aren't so great, and I figure the institution is no better than the people in it, so I doubt anything is actually happening there. I've done more growing in my life by being in touch with people on the margins of this society than the people flocking to the respectability of churches and conventional morality.

You know something funny? Your statement, about growing more with people on the margins. Guess what? You're talking like Yeshua. This is literally exactly how he talked---his favorite topics were, helping people and also railing against hypocritical church-goers. You would fit right in around him.

What if I told you that the way you feel, about Christians, and Christianity, is exactly how God feels about them as well? What if you are spending your whole life walking around thinking that you're "on the outside looking in", that you "don't fit in". But in reality you are already part of Gods plan, and he is right with you, right this very second, sharing your concerns with you, echoing them even, AGREEING with them.

I just have this sneaking feeling that you and him are a LOT closer than you could ever imagine.

 

[FireDragon76]

I think your impression that the Christian God has been anthropomorphized, is very accurate, and has been done through art mainly over thousands of years. That, however, has NOTHING to do with who he actually is and whether the Christian story is true or not.

That's true, I suppose. But it's still not clear to me what a non-anthropomorphic God would look like, since the entire Judeo-Christian tradition is wrapped up in anthropomorphisms.

It's true, there is no proof. You weren't there and you didn't see him do any miracles, or hear him say he was God with your own ears. If you require that level of proof to believe in something, or even entertain it as possible, then I'd say you MIGHT want to adjust your requirements, just a TINY bit

Why? I look at it as a reveres Pascal's Wager? Christianity, the Nicene Creed, is most certainly in my mind not 100 percent true and certain. Therefore, I am taking a big gamble if I identified as one, knowing that parts are either not true, or are only useful but incomplete.

That's so true. Unfortunately, the Christian church has been treating people like "rubes" for some time now. PLEASE don't make a decision about God and his son based off that.

Why not?

BTW, I appreciate what you have said here, and I am considering it. I just would like to hear more than "oh, your soul is at stake". I am afraid my soul might be at stake anyways (I could squander this precious human birth, and come back as a cockroach... when I could have easily had this life be my last... for the sake of argument, trusting myself to the Buddha of Infinite Light), so I sort of see it as a moot point. I need a path out of hell, and it looks like mindfulness is one of the best things that was ever invented, just based on returning to it after leaving church. If I need a religious community to structure that, well, Buddhism is very tempting.

Honestly, I am a wierd person... standing between two religious worlds in a way. Pastor says I am more than welcome to be both, if that is what I have to do. But, for now, I am not taking him up on the offer. I couldn't say the Nicene Creed anymore in good conscience, for one thing. I don't know how the elderly Vietnamese guy in our congregation managed that one, that Pastor was talking about (he got both a Christian funeral in a church and a Buddhist funeral at a temple). Maybe the Creed is optional, I don't know.

 

[FireDragon76]

The problem is that we are all broken, imperfect humans. Except that with Christianity, people found a way to make themselves LOOK perfect, while clinging on to their inner sin.

You know something funny? Your statement, about growing more with people on the margins. Guess what? You're talking like Yeshua. That's where he went immediately, the downtrodden, the margins of society. The way you are talking is literally exactly how he talked---his favorite topics were, helping people and also railing against hypocritical church-goers.

Yes, I continue to be inspired by Jesus. I suppose I can't fully escape him, as a Buddhist might say, I have seeds planted that are Christian, even while I am no longer an orthodox Christian. But, I don't have to let that define me, necessarily.

 

[Brianlear]

Yes, I continue to be inspired by Jesus. I suppose I can't fully escape him, as a Buddhist might say, I have seeds planted that are Christian, even while I am no longer an orthodox Christian. But, I don't have to let that define me, necessarily.

What if what you call being "inspired" by jesus, is the same thing as when Christians say "jesus is manifesting through you". Like what if its just semantics and the two things are describing the same phenomena, but neither side knows that.

 

[AJ Burk]

It pains me to see people who are struggling with these questions in life, but I'm glad you are looking for answers rather than keeping it to yourself. I certainly understand your sentiments toward the church family--there is something special about having a community that cares about you. And the teachings of Jesus are certainly powerful and practical.

On the Jesus Seminar, have you considered other opinions of their work? While they claim to represent biblical scholarship, they worked with heavy bias which played into their results. For the honest truth seeker, there is amazing amounts of evidence that Jesus is who he says he is.

And I am curious as to your beliefs about the world and the afterlife. You say you believe in prayer, but you don't pray to God. Do you believe in a God who created the world, even if it isn't the God of the Bible?

Sorry, that was more questions than answers. I don't want to give glib answers that won't help anyone, and understanding your position will help curb that potential.

 

[hedrick]

I just noticed the reference to the Jesus Seminar in the OP. There's a range of views among critical scholars. The Seminar tends to be on the skeptical end of that. Some of their comments have been a bit pretentious. I have their translation of the Gospels. They claim to represent Scholars, with wording that is almost humorous. Many members of the Seminar are fine scholars, but I'd look a bit more broadly.

This is probably a detail, though. I doubt it affects your situation as a whole.

 

[FireDragon76]

It pains me to see people who are struggling with these questions in life, but I'm glad you are looking for answers rather than keeping it to yourself. I certainly understand your sentiments toward the church family--there is something special about having a community that cares about you. And the teachings of Jesus are certainly powerful and practical.

On the Jesus Seminar, have you considered other opinions of their work? While they claim to represent biblical scholarship, they worked with heavy bias which played into their results. For the honest truth seeker, there is amazing amounts of evidence that Jesus is who he says he is.

And I am curious as to your beliefs about the world and the afterlife. You say you believe in prayer, but you don't pray to God. Do you believe in a God who created the world, even if it isn't the God of the Bible?

I do believe in some kind of existence after death, though I don't believe in anything like the Christian concept of the "immortality of the soul".

I just don't see God, at least as defined by the Bible, as the central big idea that Christians seem to.

I understand prayer in a more Buddhist sense, not an appealing to a transcendent being necessarily. It's difficult to explain because Christians are used to thinking of religion and spirituality in exclusivist and dualistic terms. Basically, I don't think it matters who or what you pray to, as long as prayer helps a person to be engaged and present in their life.

 

[FireDragon76]

What if what you call being "inspired" by jesus, is the same thing as when Christians say "jesus is manifesting through you". Like what if its just semantics and the two things are describing the same phenomena, but neither side knows that.

I think Jack said it best when he described me as a member of the "alumni of the Church".

I think I continue to wrestle with what that means. But I no longer feel a decisive loyalty the institution or its orthodoxies. I don't believe that kind of trust is warranted. Perhaps if circumstances were different, I would arrive at a different conclusion.