For I Have Not Yet Ascended To My Father...

[yeshuasavedme]

Jhn 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

On the Shroud thread, there are a lot of side issues to be made clear from Scripture, so as to clear up confusion and myths that have grown in bias' caused by ignorance of the Law, by modern translators, who inject their own "out of context" translations using many words not in the original, which totally change the meaning of the doctrine of Christ: of His Person and His Work, as it was given to Moses for the namesake people of the New Man name to rehearse the signs/Oracles of, until all was fulfilled.

The Holy of Holies in the temple is called "The Oracle", itself, of this work which the High Priest in Israel, serving in the "Anointing/ Messiah" office rehearsed once, yearly, when he donned the garments of "Firstborn" to go into the presence of the Glory, so as to rehearse the Atonement which was to come.

On the other thread, statements made and questions asked led to this, but it is off topic for the thread to go on with the discussion there, so I make this thread, for that purpose. If there is any interest I will be happy to discuss it here.
This is what my own studies have led me to understand, and if I err in biblical understanding, then I am willing to change my mind -if one can show me these things are not so, by using the Word of God

Passover, Unleavened Bread Sabbath following Passover, First of Firstfruits, and the ascension to the Temple to present the wave offering on First of Firstfruits morning are three biblical signs of the Person and Work of Christ that Moses wrote, about the Christ, in the Law, which signs only the namesake people of God [who was to come in flesh as the New Man, Redeemer/Kinsman], were given to rehearse until each is fulfilled by the One they were the doctrine/teaching of.

Jesus said He came to fulfill all things written about Him in the prophets and the Law.
Paul said the Law serves as schoolmaster to bring us to Christ, and the goal of the Law is Christ.
To understand why Jesus must ascend to the Father that morning, and what it meant is found in the Law and the prophets, and Jesus talked about it in John 17.
When Jesus returned from that fulfillment that evening, there was a lot of touching, but until that fulfillment in the temple in heaven was done by the High Priest of Earth, who ascended and is our everliving Father [who are adopted into His One Living Spirit/born again], He could not be made ceremonially unclean, as High Priest of earth, according to the Law Moses wrote, and He was and is the Only One who could fulfill that Day of First of Firstfruits to the last jot and tittle of it.
He would not allow Mary to touch before that was fulfilled....
To appear before He ascended was necessary.
To return and give His Holy Spirit to be in them, after He ascended and was glorified, was necessary and is the adoption of Spirit promised to the fathers.

Jesus is the High Priest of earth "in the order of Melche-Zedek", which is the partiarchal order given to our first father, Adam, from whose loins we all have come forth.
Adam died, and the office was Seth's, and to Seth's descendants the office passed, down through Methuselah to Noah.
Noah chose Shem for the office, though Shem was not the firstborn son:
Gen 10:21 Unto Shem also, the father of all the children of Eber, the brother of Japheth the elder, even to him were children born.

[Being named first in one list does not make one the elder, in the Word, for the order of birth does not make the election sure -as Jacob was chosen over Esau, and so on].
Shem was the priest of the "Most High God" who met Abram at the rout of the four kings. Ancient Jewish history and writings show that Shem was the "King of Righteousness" who met Abram, and that, being the priest of the Most High God, he passed that patriarchal order for earth's office of high priest to Abram that day.

God elected Isaac to be Abram's "only begotten son" for that blessing, and from Isaac, to Jacob, to...Levi.
In fact, ancient Jewish writings from the Dead Sea Scrolls show that Jacob counted his sons ten up from the last born, to give the promised tithe to God from all he prospered in the land he fled to, so that Levi was the elected son of promise.
In the Dead Sea Scrolls, we also read in the copies of the writings of the patriarchs themselves -that remain in fragments- that Levi knew he -his line- would be the priests in the temple that would be built when Israel would return to the promised Land, and he had dreams and visions, as all the patriarchs did, who had been elected for God's purposes.

From Levi, then Moses acted in, was elected for, the patriarchal office of high priest and high king over Israel -and judged the nations who had afflicted Israel, until he passed the office of high priest to Aaron, and anointed him for it.
Aaron's sons held that office, but all the high priests died because there was no living, everlasting father, out of Adam's loins who could live forever or offer an acceptable sacrifice to redeem his brethren so as to open entrance into the presence of the Glory on high. They could only rehearse it, in the Atonement offered once a year until the Messiah would come fulfill that Atonement which was the "Acceptable Year" of its fulfilling to put away sin, once, for all -for whosoever will.


Only Enoch passed into the heavens in his transformed body as the firstborn son of Christ's Living Spirit, adopted as son of Christ raised in his Adam's name before even Christ was come in flesh, so that the inheritance of the first husband of the barren widow would not be lost; and double portion given to the firstborn son raised in the dead husbands name. This is the law of the firstborn son of the second husband to the barren widow who marries the brother/kinsman of the departed husband. This we learn in the Law, our schoolmaster in such things about the doctrine of Christ who was to come and is come.

Jerusalem of the Spirit is Jerusalem above, "Mount Zion" of the heavenly realm, who is personified in the Word as the Woman left without children to build up the house of God in the heavens; but Christ, the Spiritual Seed of the spiritual Woman was promised from the time of the fall, was to come to build up that House/Temple "for the Glory" to indwell, and to redeem all that was lost, in Adam -this is what Adam and all the seed in his loins [and we are that seed] died to, in the fall. Death of spirit and literal divorce [when he was cast out/driven out of Eden's Paradise in the third heaven. The word "drove out" means to divorce]. Adam was there, to rule over earth from the heavens, and was to bring forth the seed in his loins to "build up Zion" of the Spirit with living stones/eben/ as sons/ben from his loins, as the temple for Glory, so as to "Plant the heavens", as the Word says "Israel" was formed to do.
"Israel" -Isaiah 49, is the New Name of Christ, come in New Man flesh, and is the "Elect", the Only Begotten Firstborn Son of God in that flesh, because Adam is dead in spirit and irreversibly unclean in flesh of clay.


This is all too much study to detail all here, but if one's taste goes to studying to show oneself approved unto God, workmen that need not be ashamed, and purports to be a teacher in Christ's Church, then they should learn the whys and wherefores of the doctrine of Christ as taught in the signs rehearsed in every aspect by the elected son's namesake people, and that name is Israel, as the New Man, which God, appearing in the form of "The angel/Spirit of His Face/Penuel", invoked over Jacob, in Genesis 32, as a sign of the adoption to come, in flesh, and in spirit.
Jacob named that place "Penuel", for he understood that he had "seen the face of God", and lived.

Jacob built a memorial altar to that name invoked over him, and named it "God, the Mighty God, Israel".
In Hosea 12, Hosea writes that Jacob wrestled with YHWH, in Genesis 32, and many Scriptures [including the second canon/Apocrypha] speak of YHWH invoking that holy name, "Israel", over Jacob, His people.

Hosea means Salvation, the same name as God come in New Man flesh is called by those Hebrew speaking, namesake people of the New Man name, [who are saved by Him], were told to call His name, by the angel.


So, the message/doctrine of the Law given to the people of the name is about Christ who was to come, about His person, and His work.
Jesus said all must be fulfilled -to the last jot and tittle.
From that, we look back to study what His Person and work are, for us, which rehearsals of those things are in the "Law".

We have a great, everliving, never dying, glorified, human being flesh Firstborn "only begotten" Son of God, the High Priest who is ascended to the heavens, who ascended on high and "gave gifts unto men".
Christ come in flesh was baptized into that office, about age 30, by John the Baptist, a Levitical prophet, and anointed by the Spirit of Holiness at that baptism, when He Descended in the form of a dove, and the Father blessed Him from heaven, as His Son...

When He ascended, he offered the First of Firstfruits, with Himself as Everlasting Father serving in the heavenly realm's office of everliving, never dying Patriarchal order High Priest -and King of Righteousness, of earth..
and as Head Priest of the First of Firstfruits -whom he raised with Himself, according to the Law- He offered them as the wave offering in heaven's temple, to fulfill that law.

 

[BobRyan]

Jesus did not ascend to heaven until after He was resurrected - that is clear from John 20.

Elijah and Enoch both were translated directly to heaven without dying.

Matt 27 says that a large group of OT saint were raised up at the same time that Christ was raised and Eph 4 says Christ took them to heaven with him when He finally did ascend to heaven.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Jesus did not ascend to heaven until after He was resurrected - that is clear from John 20.

Elijah and Enoch both were translated directly to heaven without dying.

Matt 27 says that a large group of OT saint were raised up at the same time that Christ was raised and Eph 4 says Christ took them to heaven with him when He finally did ascend to heaven.

in Christ,

Bob

Yes.
Except that Elijah is not in the translated body and will return with Moses to preach Christ, as the eyewitnesses representing the Law and the prophets, for three and a half years in Jerusalem, and then be slain, and their bodies will lie unburied in the streets three and a half days, and then be resurrected in their regenerated bodies, and be raptured to heaven.

And as I wrote above, those whom Christ raised from the graves in their bodies were the "First of Firstfruits", harvest of earth's sons of God of the human being kind, raised with Him and taken to heaven as the "Wave offering" to fulfill that oracle.
They were raised as the sun set on the eve before, after seventh Day Sabbath ended, for that was when to gather the "First of the Firstfruits" on the first, first day of the week after Passover's seventh Day Sabbath ended -and that made three days and three nights -72 hours, of Christ "in the belly of the earth", as He said He would be.

 

[Standing Up]

Jhn 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

-snip-

Perhaps rather, it has to do with this.

Lev. 16:17 And there shall be no man in the tabernacle of the congregation when he goeth in to make an atonement in the holy place, until he come out, and have made an atonement for himself, and for his household, and for all the congregation of Israel.

 

[BobRyan]

Yes.
Except that Elijah is not in the translated body

Why say that?

Christ said that John the baptizer was the Elijah of his day - yet still literal Elijah shows up literally in glorified, transfigured shining form in Matt 17 --

in Christ,

Bob

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Why say that?

Christ said that John the baptizer was the Elijah of his day - yet still literal Elijah shows up literally in glorified, transfigured shining form in Matt 17 --

in Christ,

Bob

But the Word does not say Elijah showed up transformed or glorified on the Mount. Jesus only, was transfigured before them, and Moses and Elijah appeared, speaking with Jesus about His upcoming death in Jerusalem.

They will not die until they preach in the streets of Jerusalem as eyewitnesses of His incarnation, life, death, resurrection, ascension, and glory, representing the Law and the prophets to Israel; and they will preach "Yeshua the Messiah" in Hebrew, to Hebrew speaking people:-,) for three and half years of the seven years of the tribulation after the first harvest of earth's sons of God is ingathered to heaven [the "Barn from whence the Seed came -Haggai 2] the ingathering is of the first harvest, typed in Pentecost in the Law.
The ingathering of all the redeemed out of all the nations of the earth s also called the Rapture, which word in the Hebrew "laqach", also means "to remove from one place to another, to marry, and so on".

John the Baptist only came in the spirit and power of Elijah, which is the Spirit and Power of the Spirit of the Anointing/Christ. John said he was not Elijah nor the Christ. John was not reincarnated Elijah, for that is impossible. John was the seed of his own father, right out of the loins of Zacharias, and his daddy was not carrying Elijah in his loins
The angel said to Zacharias that John would come in the spirit and power of Elijah, and to whomever received His witness of Christ in that time, there is no more need of the physical Elijah, who will yet come in person, preach, be slain, rise from the dead in regenerated form, and ascend in the rapture -mid-trib.
As to the spirit and power of Elijah: Elisha received the same, times two, and even his bones raised a dead man to life when the body of the dead man was tossed in the cave where Elisha's bones lay -so there are "holy relics", that have the power of Christ in them, to heal the sick and raise the dead -and the poor dead man had no faith to believe....the bones had the spirit and power of Elijah times two, and the body of the man could not remain dead when it touched those bones!





Matthew 16:
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
Matthew 17:
And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.




Mark 9: And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.
2 And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.
3 And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them.
4 And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.




John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Luke 1 13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.
14 And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.
15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.
16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.
17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.


2 Kings 2:
9 And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me.
10 And he said, Thou hast asked a hard thing: nevertheless, if thou see me when I am taken from thee, it shall be so unto thee; but if not, it shall not be so.
11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
12 And Elisha saw it, and he cried, My father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof. And he saw him no more: and he took hold of his own clothes, and rent them in two pieces.
13 He took up also the mantle of Elijah that fell from him, and went back, and stood by the bank of Jordan;

2 Kings 13:
20 And Elisha died, and they buried him. And the bands of the Moabites invaded the land at the coming in of the year.
21 And it came to pass, as they were burying a man, that, behold, they spied a band of men; and they cast the man into the sepulchre of Elisha: and when the man was let down, and touched the bones of Elisha, he revived, and stood up on his feet.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Perhaps rather, it has to do with this.

Lev. 16:17 And there shall be no man in the tabernacle of the congregation when he goeth in to make an atonement in the holy place, until he come out, and have made an atonement for himself, and for his household, and for all the congregation of Israel.

Hi,
Yes, that is also true, but that is about the Atonement, which no one was "with" Jesus to do, and it was done, and He was risen and He gathered the First of Firstfruits of earth's harvest of Pentecost to raise with Himself, in their own regenerated bodies, to fulfill the Law...He must needs take them to the temple in heaven, in the morning, and present them there, with Himself as High Priest of earth.

He must ascend as High Priest of earth, to appear in the temple in heaven with the first of firstfruits as wave offering, and also, to receive the Glory in full measure of the "Elect", "only begotten" Son of God -of the human being kind.

 

[Standing Up]

Hi,
Yes, that is also true, but that is about the Atonement, which no one was "with" Jesus to do, and it was done, and He was risen and He gathered the First of Firstfruits of earth's harvest of Pentecost to raise with Himself, in their own regenerated bodies, to fulfill the Law...He must needs take them to the temple in heaven, in the morning, and present them there, with Himself as High Priest of earth.

He must ascend as High Priest of earth, to appear in the temple in heaven with the first of firstfruits as wave offering, and also, to receive the Glory in full measure of the "Elect", "only begotten" Son of God -of the human being kind.

Just thinking out loud, so no offense.

Some believe atonement came centuries later, right? Or is it still to come? Or did He accomplish it per John's recording "do not touch" and Lev. 16:17 connection after His resurrection?

Re; first fruits. Is it clear where the priest stood to "wave"? Or was it toward heaven from earth? (Mt. 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Just thinking out loud, so no offense.

Some believe atonement came centuries later, right? Or is it still to come? Or did He accomplish it per John's recording "do not touch" and Lev. 16:17 connection after His resurrection?

Re; first fruits. Is it clear where the priest stood to "wave"? Or was it toward heaven from earth? (Mt. 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

No offense at all
the Atonement is totally finished once, for all, and will no more be done.
He fuflilled it on Passover, which is the 14th of the first month after Spring solstice, in God's calendar [as pr Enoch].
They offered in the temple, "God's dwelling place"
After His resurrection, He must needs fulfill the First of Firstfruits.
The omer of grain is harvested, after sunset on the seventh day Sabbath, then beat out, -and I think may be baked in a loaf -gotta check the doctrine out more, cause I forgot], and waved before the LORD by the priest, mid-morning.
Those were to type the harvest to come, of sons of God from earth, adopted into the New Man name.
The omer was about two litres of grain [says the concordance], so it was beat out of the sheafs to get that much...

Lev 23:10 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf [omer -tenth of ephah/ of the beat out grain, but baked in a loaf, I think it is....have to check the Jewish sites for that info...] of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest:

Lev 23:11 And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it.

 

[Standing Up]

No offense at all
the Atonement is totally finished once, for all, and will no more be done.
He fuflilled it on Passover, which is the 14th of the first month after Spring solstice, in God's calendar [as pr Enoch].
They offered in the temple, "God's dwelling place"
After His resurrection, He must needs fulfill the First of Firstfruits.
The omer of grain is harvested, after sunset on the seventh day Sabbath, then beat out, -and I think may be baked in a loaf -gotta check the doctrine out more, cause I forgot], and waved before the LORD by the priest, mid-morning.
Those were to type the harvest to come, of sons of God from earth, adopted into the New Man name.
The omer was about two litres of grain [says the concordance], so it was beat out of the sheafs to get that much...

Lev 23:10 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf [omer -tenth of ephah/ of the beat out grain, but baked in a loaf, I think it is....have to check the Jewish sites for that info...] of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest:

Lev 23:11 And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it.

Brought to the priest who waved it. First time was when they entered Promised Land. So, no temple per se. Brought to the priest who waved it.

At Christ's resurrection, that was also the first time (first of the resurrection). So, not clear where it took place.

Re day of first fruit. Many today think it on Sunday, but if you look at the Septuagint, it's clear that first fruit always fell on the 16th (the day after the first day of 7 day unleavened bread).

Passover-14
Unleavened bread first day-15
First fruit-16

They observed that 3 days & 3 nights as a floating period on whatever day of the week it fell.

Then on the day after the weekly Sabbath after the unleavened bread Sabbath, they began the 7 full week (7 of 7's) count to Pentecost.

Anyway, I digress. I still suspect the "do not touch" was in relation to atonement, rather than first fruit.

Also, didn't Moses go up and down Sinai a few times when getting the Law?

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Brought to the priest who waved it. First time was when they entered Promised Land. So, no temple per se. Brought to the priest who waved it.

At Christ's resurrection, that was also the first time (first of the resurrection). So, not clear where it took place.

Re day of first fruit. Many today think it on Sunday, but if you look at the Septuagint, it's clear that first fruit always fell on the 16th (the day after the first day of 7 day unleavened bread).

Passover-14
Unleavened bread first day-15
First fruit-16

They observed that 3 days & 3 nights as a floating period on whatever day of the week it fell.

Then on the day after the weekly Sabbath after the unleavened bread Sabbath, they began the 7 full week (7 of 7's) count to Pentecost.

Anyway, I digress. I still suspect the "do not touch" was in relation to atonement, rather than first fruit.

Also, didn't Moses go up and down Sinai a few times when getting the Law?

Hi,
Moses copied the pattern of all he was shown on the Mount to write for Israel to rehearse until it was all fulfilled. Every Feast [God's rehearsals of those fulfillment's to come], was given Moses as patterns/types, of all things concerning Christ, and Christ fulfilled both Passover and the Day of Atonement in One Day, and the Feast of Unleavened Bread the next, and then Friday, when the women mixed/prepared the spices for the anointing of His body, and then seventh Day Sabbath, when they rested, and then First of Firstfruits, when they came to the tomb early in the morning as the sun was rising only to find Christ was risen.
There has been a created temple in the stretched out heavens [the heavens were all stretched out from this earth between the cut in two waters on day two of creation week, which is why He named them "Sha -mayim"] where the Glory sits enthroned since the fourth Day of Creation week, and Moses saw that temple, and saw the furnishings, and saw the clothing for the priests and for the High Priest, to be put on only when they entered the temple to stand before the Glory, to rehearse the Feasts typing the Person and work of Messiah -who was to come.
He rose on the First Day of the week, after sunset had ended the seventh day Sabbath, and at twilight of the First Day of the week. He had been in "the belly of the earth" for three days and three nights, as He said, and a "day" in that counting of its parts, or hours, was 12 hours of light, as He said]
He gathered the offering to be waved, Himself, identifying Himself as our own "Daysman", whom Job longed for, to stand between us and God; As the Firstborn of earth and the "Only Begotten Son of God", He ascended as the High Priest and Firstborn of earth, and offered them, with Himself, before the Glory in the temple in heaven.

Those saints who rose from their graves, bodily, and walked about the city and were seen of many rose with Him the eve before [though mentioned out of sequential order in the Gospel] as the "gathered First of Firstfruits of the first harvest, fulfilled that Law.

Passover was a type. We apply the blood to the doorposts of our heart when we "confess the blood of Christ as our covering to protect us from the angel of Death".


When Moses wrote the Law of First of Firstfruits, it was only one part of the oracles to type the Person and work of Christ who was to come, given to the namesake people of the New Man name, to rehearse until all was fulfilled.
He copied the pattern of all he was shown in heaven, to type them on earth.
When the priest elected the two goats by lot on the Day of Atonement, one was "To YHWH", and was a burnt offering, and one was "To Azazel".
The priest laid hands on the "To Azazel" goat and confessed the guilt of all the sins and iniquities of the people, transferring them to the goat sent away, "To Azazel", and sent that goat away, into the wilderness.
This was all to type the Day of Atonement, when all our sins and iniquities were laid on the soul of Yeshua the Messiah come in flesh.
In Isaiah 53, we read that was so.

Isa 53:4 ¶Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.


But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.


All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the YHWH hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.



And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Day of Atonement:
Lev 16:8 And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot "To YHWH", and the other lot "To Azazel"
But the goat, on which the lot fell "to Azazel", shall be presented alive before YHWH, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go "To Azazel" into the wilderness.
The wilderness is typing Sheol, where Azazel & Co are chained, which is taught in the Book of Enoch, and to Azazel was all sin to be given in the 70th generation from Noah, so the Atonement was completed in the 70th generation [and God does not count generations as we do, for a daughter of a father married to her father's grandson, through a son, is counted as one generation, not two, in the Scriptures, as is seen in the case of Jochebed, the mother of Moses, who is the daughter of Levi married to Levi's grandson through his son, and so, Moses is counted,by God, as the fourth generation from Abraham, who came out of Egypt, back to the promised land, not the fifth.


So, The Father, Himself, laid upon the soul of Jesus/Yeshua the Messiah all the sins and iniquities of the people -beginning with Adam- and completely put away our guilt when the soul of Yeshua departed His flesh and took those sins away, and gave them "To Azazel", chained in Sheol, while His One Living Spirit was committed "To God", and ascended, and His flesh lay in the grave for three days, not able to corrupt in its New Man flesh, because that flesh was typed in the solid gold Mercy Seat that Moses saw in heaven, and gold cannot corrupt.

So Christ rose after sunset on the First, First day of the week after the seventh Day Sabbath, and gathered the "First of Firstfruits", which would equal a tenth of an ephah of the grains beat out of the sheaf...as to typing that gathering. I wonder, if one counted how many grains of barley make a tenth of an ephah, if they could conclude how many Saints Jesus gathered from the Dead when He rose, to present in the Temple in heaven as the "Wave Offering".

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Brought to the priest who waved it. First time was when they entered Promised Land. So, no temple per se. Brought to the priest who waved it.

At Christ's resurrection, that was also the first time (first of the resurrection). So, not clear where it took place.

Re day of first fruit. Many today think it on Sunday, but if you look at the Septuagint, it's clear that first fruit always fell on the 16th (the day after the first day of 7 day unleavened bread).

Passover-14
Unleavened bread first day-15
First fruit-16

They observed that 3 days & 3 nights as a floating period on whatever day of the week it fell.

Then on the day after the weekly Sabbath after the unleavened bread Sabbath, they began the 7 full week (7 of 7's) count to Pentecost.

Anyway, I digress. I still suspect the "do not touch" was in relation to atonement, rather than first fruit.

Also, didn't Moses go up and down Sinai a few times when getting the Law?

Hi,
Moses copied the pattern of all he was shown on the Mount to write for Israel to rehearse until it was all fulfilled. Every Feast [God's rehearsals of those fulfillment's to come], was given Moses as patterns/types, of all things concerning Christ, and Christ fulfilled both Passover and the Day of Atonement in One Day, and the Feast of Unleavened Bread the next, and then Friday, when the women mixed/prepared the spices for the anointing of His body, and then seventh Day Sabbath, when they rested, and then First of Firstfruits, when they came to the tomb early in the morning as the sun was rising only to find Christ was risen.
There has been a created temple in the stretched out heavens [the heavens were all stretched out from this earth between the cut in two waters on day two of creation week, which is why He named them "Sha -mayim"] where the Glory sits enthroned since the fourth Day of Creation week, and Moses saw that temple, and saw the furnishings, and saw the clothing for the priests and for the High Priest, to be put on only when they entered the temple to stand before the Glory, to rehearse the Feasts typing the Person and work of Messiah -who was to come.
He rose on the First Day of the week, after sunset had ended the seventh day Sabbath, and at twilight of the First Day of the week. He had been in "the belly of the earth" for three days and three nights, as He said, and a "day" in that counting of its parts, or hours, was 12 hours of light, as He said]
He gathered the offering to be waved, Himself, identifying Himself as our own "Daysman", whom Job longed for, to stand between us and God; As the Firstborn of earth and the "Only Begotten Son of God", He ascended as the High Priest and Firstborn of earth, and offered them, with Himself, before the Glory in the temple in heaven.

Those saints who rose from their graves, bodily, and walked about the city and were seen of many rose with Him the eve before [though mentioned out of sequential order in the Gospel] as the "gathered First of Firstfruits of the first harvest, fulfilled that Law.

Passover was a type. We apply the blood to the doorposts of our heart when we "confess the blood of Christ as our covering to protect us from the angel of Death".


When Moses wrote the Law of First of Firstfruits, it was only one part of the oracles to type the Person and work of Christ who was to come, given to the namesake people of the New Man name, to rehearse until all was fulfilled.
He copied the pattern of all he was shown in heaven, to type them on earth.
When the priest elected the two goats by lot on the Day of Atonement, one was "To YHWH", and was a burnt offering, and one was "To Azazel".
The priest laid hands on the "To Azazel" goat and confessed the guilt of all the sins and iniquities of the people, transferring them to the goat sent away, "To Azazel", and sent that goat away, into the wilderness.
This was all to type the Day of Atonement, when all our sins and iniquities were laid on the soul of Yeshua the Messiah come in flesh.
In Isaiah 53, we read that was so.

Isa 53:4 ¶Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.


But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.


All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the YHWH hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.



And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Day of Atonement:
Lev 16:8 And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot "To YHWH", and the other lot "To Azazel"
But the goat, on which the lot fell "to Azazel", shall be presented alive before YHWH, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go "To Azazel" into the wilderness.
The wilderness is typing Sheol, where Azazel & Co are chained, which is taught in the Book of Enoch, and to Azazel was all sin to be given in the 70th generation from Noah, so the Atonement was completed in the 70th generation [and God does not count generations as we do, [edit correction] for the son of the daughter of a father married to her father's grandson, through a son of the father, is counted as one generation, not two, from the Father, in the Scriptures, as is seen in the case of Jochebed, the mother of Moses, who is the daughter of Levi married to Levi's grandson through his son, and so, Moses is counted,by God, as the fourth generation from Abraham, who came out of Egypt, back to the promised land, not the fifth.


So, The Father, Himself, laid upon the soul of Jesus/Yeshua the Messiah all the sins and iniquities of the people -beginning with Adam- and completely put away our guilt when the soul of Yeshua departed His flesh and took those sins away, and gave them "To Azazel", chained in Sheol, while His One Living Spirit was committed "To God", and ascended, and His flesh lay in the grave for three days, not able to corrupt in its New Man flesh, because that flesh was typed in the solid gold Mercy Seat that Moses saw in heaven, and gold cannot corrupt.

So Christ rose after sunset on the First, First day of the week after the seventh Day Sabbath, and gathered the "First of Firstfruits", which would equal a tenth of an ephah of the grains beat out of the sheaf...as to typing that gathering. I wonder, if one counted how many grains of barley make a tenth of an ephah, if they could conclude how many Saints Jesus gathered from the Dead when He rose, to present in the Temple in heaven as the "Wave Offering".

 

[yeshuasavedme]

I had to correct the generations as God counts it in the post, but the edit feature does not bring up the post, so the reason for two posts above is for correction.
Jochebed is Levi's daughter who was counted as the seventieth soul who came into Egypt because she was born "at the gates of Egypt", as the Jewish writings say, and also, the Jewish writings say only 69 are listed leaving for Egypt because she was in the womb, but she was then counted as the seventieth.
She was Moses' mother, who had him age 128, and Moses then led Israel out of Egypt when he was 82. So Israel was in the land of Egypt for 210 years and came out in the fourth generation from Abraham, 430 years after the promise was given to Abraham, as Paul also said. -and they were not oppressed in Egypt until after Joseph died, which is why Jochebed named Miriam the Hebrew words for "bitter people: "מַר" to be bitter/bitterness "עַם" people

Moses also was a type of Christ, serving as the Deliverer -Yeshua means Deliverer and Savior- and high priest and high king, who conferred the office of high priest to Aaron, and baptized Aaron into that office.
John the Baptist baptized the Messiah, Yeshua, back into that patriarchal office of Patriarchal High Priest, Firstborn, of earth, and the Holy Spirit anointed Him as Messiah at John's performing of that baptism.
The High Priest in Israel was always anointed with the oil of Anointing to serve in the office representing Christ who was to come, and that Anointing is "the Messiah" Anointing.
We have a High Priest of the Patriarchal order who will never die, and He is our "Everlasting Father", if we have been adopted/born again, into His One Living Spirit/Christ, because He took our sins upon His own soul and took them away, and gave them "to Azazel" -& Co, chained in Sheol, and who will be tormented forever in the Lake of Fire for every sin we ever confessed and "laid upon Christ", for the sins are removed eternally from us, and Christ rose without sin, and is returning without sin to take us to Himself and dress us in the robes of righteousness/our New Man body made in His own image, as His own adopted sons.
The Levitical priesthood types this whole thing for us.

In Revelation, Jesus promised to write upon us "His New Name" [our flesh will be elementally dissolved and regenerated, with the New Man DNA]; and that name is not "Adam", which is our old man name, but "Israel", as to the name of the flesh of the Firstborn Son of God [Isaiah 49] [old name: male and female made He them Genesis 5:2, and called their name Adam, and commanded Adam to multiply the Adam seed, as sons of God ,for building up the City of God/Zion above, for the Glory to indwell -another study about the Person and Work of Christ]

 

[Standing Up]

Hi,
Moses copied the pattern of all he was shown on the Mount to write for Israel to rehearse until it was all fulfilled. Every Feast [God's rehearsals of those fulfillment's to come], was given Moses as patterns/types, of all things concerning Christ, and Christ fulfilled both Passover and the Day of Atonement in One Day, and the Feast of Unleavened Bread the next, and then Friday, when the women mixed/prepared the spices for the anointing of His body, and then seventh Day Sabbath, when they rested, and then First of Firstfruits, when they came to the tomb early in the morning as the sun was rising only to find Christ was risen.-snip-

While some believe the 14th Nisan (Passover) was Friday, thus making the 16th (first fruits) on Sunday, such day/date coincidence is not always the case each year after year. It floats. See also Joshua 5:10-12.

"Don't touch" would have happened on Sunday. This would be after Passover.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

While some believe the 14th Nisan (Passover) was Friday, thus making the 16th (first fruits) on Sunday, such day/date coincidence is not always the case each year after year. It floats. See also Joshua 5:10-12.

"Don't touch" would have happened on Sunday. This would be after Passover.

The Jews did not keep God's calendar after returning from Babylon.
The huge disagreement the Essenes -priests- had with the rulers in Jerusalem were:
1 a defiled priesthood according to the Law of Moses
2 keeping the wrong calendar as God gave it to His people and as Enoch wrote of.

Enoch's calendar tells us the year begins at Spring solstice as seen from the "Navel of the earth" =Jerusalem [God defines that as His "Navel of the earth, in the Scriptures].
Moses kept that calendar which is a 360 day year calendar, with four stop days at the heads of the four seasons, not counted in the days of the week, nor added in the number of moments in a day period from sunset to sunset, but added as to their numbers at the end of the year, making a 364 day year from the beginning of creation to all eternity.
So the 14th of the first month is always fourteen days after the beginning of the year, and the year as they counted it was counted from the fourth day of the week, after the year was completed and those days were added in number. So the years roll on unchanged in God's calendar, though men have gone astray, esp Israel, after Babylon. The thing is that in God's calendar, the moon falls behind the sun X number of days a year, and I think the cycle of the paths of the moon and sun converge again after 19 years -but don't quote me on that, I would have to go re-read Enoch's book on that section -which is canon in the Ethiopian Orthodox Church.
So God's Passover cycle came around correctly on the fourth day of the week, Weds, and the 14th of the first month, when Jesus was crucified, and He then rose after seventh day Sabbath on the First day of the week, at twilight.

So, the wrong calendar can end up with the right days every so many years, and God made sure that happened at that Passover

In God's calendar, every event has the celebration of it on the same calendar day every year.

 

[Standing Up]

The Jews did not keep God's calendar after returning from Babylon.
The huge disagreement the Essenes -priests- had with the rulers in Jerusalem were:
1 a defiled priesthood according to the Law of Moses
2 keeping the wrong calendar as God gave it to His people and as Enoch wrote of.

Enoch's calendar tells us the year begins at Spring solstice as seen from the "Navel of the earth" =Jerusalem [God defines that as His "Navel of the earth, in the Scriptures].
Moses kept that calendar which is a 360 day year calendar, with four stop days at the heads of the four seasons, not counted in the days of the week, nor added in the number of moments in a day period from sunset to sunset, but added as to their numbers at the end of the year, making a 364 day year from the beginning of creation to all eternity.
So the 14th of the first month is always fourteen days after the beginning of the year, and the year as they counted it was counted from the fourth day of the week, after the year was completed and those days were added in number. So the years roll on unchanged in God's calendar, though men have gone astray, esp Israel, after Babylon. The thing is that in God's calendar, the moon falls behind the sun X number of days a year, and I think the cycle of the paths of the moon and sun converge again after 19 years -but don't quote me on that, I would have to go re-read Enoch's book on that section -which is canon in the Ethiopian Orthodox Church.
So God's Passover cycle came around correctly on the fourth day of the week, Weds, and the 14th of the first month, when Jesus was crucified, and He then rose after seventh day Sabbath on the First day of the week, at twilight.

So, the wrong calendar can end up with the right days every so many years, and God made sure that happened at that Passover

In God's calendar, every event has the celebration of it on the same calendar day every year.

Navel of earth is similar to heart of the earth as like to midst of the earth. God my king of old working salvation in the midst of the earth (Psalm ???). 3 days 3 nights working salvation (you quoted Isaiah suffering servant).

19 years to realign is correct (though astronomical details are not completely precise).

I suspect, but can't prove it, that Enoch's calendar worked until the earth tilted supposedly at the flood. 365 1/4 solar days is what is now. 29 1/2 for the moon. Tough to get it all lined up. So, the only constant would be that there are still 4 seasons marked in different ways. Besides, the command was to store double on the sixth day for the 7th day. There's no exception mentioned for additions at seasonal changes. But it's a nice thought to have it all align I suppose.

 

[Grafted In]

Wow. Would that I could be brought up to speed with you guys. Precious little milk here but lots of meat. I'd love to be able to join in on your conversation but for now I think I'll just read and wait on Him. This stuff is fascinating !!! It's in the same vein as what He placed a hunger in me for while I waited for 35 years. This is the very thing that He gave me to keep me by His side as I suffered all those years because of my unforgiving spirit. He broke my bonds about a year and a half ago. What a hard learned lesson that was, although necessary I have to believe.But you guys are light years ahead of my understanding.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Navel of earth is similar to heart of the earth as like to midst of the earth. God my king of old working salvation in the midst of the earth (Psalm ???). 3 days 3 nights working salvation (you quoted Isaiah suffering servant).

19 years to realign is correct (though astronomical details are not completely precise).

I suspect, but can't prove it, that Enoch's calendar worked until the earth tilted supposedly at the flood. 365 1/4 solar days is what is now. 29 1/2 for the moon. Tough to get it all lined up. So, the only constant would be that there are still 4 seasons marked in different ways. Besides, the command was to store double on the sixth day for the 7th day. There's no exception mentioned for additions at seasonal changes. But it's a nice thought to have it all align I suppose.

Actually, it still lines up perfectly according to the calendar Enoch was shown, of the heavenly orbits of the sun, moon, and stars.
The year begins at Spring solstice as it is seen from Jerusalem.
The day begins at sunset.
There are 18 "moments" in a complete evening and morning "Day".
There are four stop days that are not counted in the year or week, one at the head of each season, so their "moments" are not counted in the year.
At the end of the year, the four "stop" days are added as to the number of days in the year, making 364 total days in each year, and 360 days of the weekdays being named in the year.
So there are 364 days in the year, but four are not numbered as days in the weeks, so each anniversary of every event always comes on the same day, year to year, forever.

A guy worked out the year using Enoch's revealed calendar, and showed that it is perfect. http://enochcalendars.webs.com/EnochSunriseSunsetCalendar.pdf