Food for Thought

[public hermit]

What is the harm done by a present Supreme Court decision which concludes that a past Supreme Court ruling was so flawed that it must be abandoned?

I gave examples:
-Pregnant girls too young to care for children
-Women who are in desperately poor circumstances and would abort if able (We should be organized and helping women in poverty regardless of this issue, but the need will grow)
-Victims of rape
-Victims of incest
-Woman in abusive relationships that don't want to be tied to an abuser through children

If it goes to the states, it will depend on a particular state's restrictions. But my general point is that women/girls and children born in these various kinds of circumstances are going to need help. Christians need to organize and prepare ways to help. Obviously, efforts would be focused on those states with the tightest restrictions. But I am thinking more shelters for abused girls and women, financial and legal assistance, medical bill coverage, efforts to ensure care for unwanted children, whatever is needed. I'm not smart enough to figure out all the details, but we have plenty of Christians who are. We certainly have the talent, money, and resources if we could organize and do this together. I think it would be a natural shift in resources from protesting legal abortion and supporting pro-life politicians to supporting girls and women in desperate circumstances.

Unfortunately, I think too many Christians are convinced that this means Christians are justified in forcing other people to comply with their own religious stance.

I'm not following what you mean. I'm talking about helping women and girls. They don't have to be proselytized, surely our obvious love and care will speak volumes and open the door for conversation, but it shouldn't be forced. If I misunderstood what you're saying here, my apologies.

Unlike you, I think Roe was the mistake and that the Supreme Court ought to restrict its actions to adjudicating and not legislating while the federal government ought to restrict its actions to those issues they have responsibility for that are enumerated by the Constitution and not interfere in matters the Constitution reserves for the people and the individual states.

I'm not saying Roe was not a mistake. As I said, taking it away without federal legislation in place is a mistake. But that is a discussion about the politics. My main concern is the inevitable need that will follow. And more than that. Voting our convictions as Christians is not nearly enough. We can be united in voting, why can't we have that same unity in meeting the real needs on the ground? Well, let's be honest, it's easy to vote. For us to be united in good works, we would have to put aside our in-house differences. To vote and not act shows how impotent we are as a body.

Then again, I am not a person that believes that the ends justify the means. Those that do believe that the ends justify the means will come to different if not opposite conclusions about what an institution with vast power ought to do

Your making what I am saying way too complicated, I think. I'm not saying abortion is good. I'm saying this change in policy, a change a majority of Christians have supported, will bring about women and girls in need. Are Christians willing and ready to engage the fruits of this labor, i.e. women and girls who will need real Christian love?

I feel like this is a no-brainer. It's discouraging if we all are not in agreement. You seem to get it. I don't know. I would have expected a lot more energy from Christians in the wider culture on this point, but I'm not seeing it. Maybe it will develop, but I have my doubts we will stand in the gap in a way that is fitting for the same energy that brought it to bear.

 

[KCfromNC]

I knew a doctor that stole medicine be to sell to addicts. I suppose that means it was health care.

Why would you suppose that? Go ahead, let's see the "reasoning" behind the conclusion in this post.

 

[grasping the after wind]

gave examples:
-Pregnant girls too young to care for children
-Women who are in desperately poor circumstances and would abort if able (We should be organized and helping women in poverty regardless of this issue, but the need will grow)
-Victims of rape
-Victims of incest
-Woman in abusive relationships that don't want to be tied to an abuser through children

You will have to explain to me how a Supreme Court decision about whether there is a Constitutional right to abortion either causes or prevents a young girl from becoming pregnant. Causes or prevents a women from being in desperately poor circumstances or from getting pregnant while in those circumstances. Causes or prevents the occurrence of a rape or incest or causes or prevents a women from becoming involved with an abuser. I don;t see the cause and effect relationship between such a supreme Court decision and those things. I don;t even dsee a cause and effect relationship between the speculated upon decision to abandon Roe and the ability of women to procure an abortion. Abandoning the flawed Reo decision does not make abortion illegal and it certainly doesn't cause women to become pregnant or poor or engage in incest or be abused or raped.

I'm not following what you mean. I'm talking about helping women and girls. They don't have to be proselytized, surely our obvious love and care will speak volumes and open the door for conversation, but it shouldn't be forced. If I misunderstood what you're saying here, my apologies.

What if a non Christian has no desire to help anyone or what if another Christian that has a different POV on what it means to help women and girls should we use the coercive force of government rto cause those people to unwillingly help in the way we prefer to help?

I'm not saying Roe was not a mistake. As I said, taking it away without federal legislation in place is a mistake. But that is a discussion about the politics. My main concern is the inevitable need that will follow. And more than that. Voting our convictions as Christians is not nearly enough. We can be united in voting, why can't we have that same unity in meeting the real needs on the ground? Well, let's be honest, it's easy to vote. For us to be united in good works, we would have to put aside our in-house differences. To vote and not act shows how impotent we are as a body.

For us to be united in good works we would have to agree on what is and is not a good work. there are cases where that might be achievable and others where t such agreement would not be possible. I tend to think we can each approach do what we consider the most helpful thing and end up with a better situation than spending time attempting to convince each other about which of us is more correct about what is the loving thing to do. I think it is more problematic for us to believe that there is one solution to every problem and that we are the ones that have figured it all out and if only everyone else would do as we say things would be wonderful than it is to act individually and in concert with the likeminded while knowing that there are some problems that we will not be able to solve.

 

[public hermit]

You will have to explain to me how a Supreme Court decision about whether there is a Constitutional right to abortion either causes or prevents a young girl from becoming pregnant. Causes or prevents a women from being in desperately poor circumstances or from getting pregnant while in those circumstances. Causes or prevents the occurrence of a rape or incest or causes or prevents a women from becoming involved with an abuser. I don;t see the cause and effect relationship between such a supreme Court decision and those things. I don;t even dsee a cause and effect relationship between the speculated upon decision to abandon Roe and the ability of women to procure an abortion. Abandoning the flawed Reo decision does not make abortion illegal and it certainly doesn't cause women to become pregnant or poor or engage in incest or be abused or raped.



What if a non Christian has no desire to help anyone or what if another Christian that has a different POV on what it means to help women and girls should we use the coercive force of government rto cause those people to unwillingly help in the way we prefer to help?



For us to be united in good works we would have to agree on what is and is not a good work. there are cases where that might be achievable and others where t such agreement would not be possible. I tend to think we can each approach do what we consider the most helpful thing and end up with a better situation than spending time attempting to convince each other about which of us is more correct about what is the loving thing to do. I think it is more problematic for us to believe that there is one solution to every problem and that we are the ones that have figured it all out and if only everyone else would do as we say things would be wonderful than it is to act individually and in concert with the likeminded while knowing that there are some problems that we will not be able to solve.

I see this discussion has gone nowhere.