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MJ Only Food for thought?

Discussion in 'Messianic Judaism' started by Heber Book List, Oct 12, 2018.

  1. Heber Book List

    Heber Book List Theologian [Applied Theology]

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    I have been researching the Feast of Weeks, and came across this interesting snippet:

    "Ex. 19:1 says that the Israelites reached Sinai in the third month after they had left Egypt: and since they had left Egypt in the middle of the first month, the Feast of Weeks became the Feast commemorating the Covenant at Sinai.

    2 Ch. 15:10 mentions that under Asa, a religious feast was held in the third month to renew the Covenant, but it does not explicitly state that this was the Feast of Weeks.

    The first time the connection is openly mentioned is in the Book of Jubilees, which puts all the Covenants it can discover in the [Tanach] (from Noah to Sinai) on the first day of the Feast of Weeks. The Qumran Sect, too, which called itself the Community of the New Covenant, celebrated the renewal of the Covenant on the Feast of Weeks, and this was the most important Feast in its calendar"

    Emphasis mine.


    Comments?

    MJ ONLY
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2018
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  2. AbbaLove

    AbbaLove Circumcision of the Heart is Messianic

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    2 Chronicles 15:1-7 was as spiritually enlightening "(Spirit of God" v. 1) then as it should be today for the Nation of Israel in helping resolve conflict with their enemies. Unfortunately, way too many secular Jews today are willing to trade land for peace.

    The Feast of Weeks (49 days) was in celebration of the first fruits of the wheat harvest. When do you think the Nation of Israel will receive the Spirit of God (50th Day) into their circumcised heart in the future as apparently "All Judah" became circumcised of heart (v. 15).

    2 Chronicles 15:13-17
    13 All who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman.
    14 They took an oath to the Lord with loud acclamation, with shouting and with trumpets and horns.
    15 All Judah rejoiced about the oath because they had sworn it wholeheartedly. They sought God eagerly, and he was found by them. So the Lord gave them rest on every side.
     
  3. gadar perets

    gadar perets Messianic Hebrew

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    Exodus 19:1-2 is not clear to me. What do you believe is meant by "the same day"?

    I don't see where it says this was a religious feast.
     
  4. AbbaLove

    AbbaLove Circumcision of the Heart is Messianic

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    Agreed, as the so-called Feast of Weeks leads up to the Feast of Shavuot (the Firstfruits of the Wheat harvest, John 4:35). I see it as foreshadowing 7 weeks (barley to wheat) for Israel to prepare for GOD's circumcision of the hearts of all Israel. Then on the 50th day (Shavuot) the LORD circumcises the hearts of all Israel with His Spirit (which is yet to occur).

    Then and only then will the tares finally be removed during the final Wheat Harvest. Then all Israel will love their LORD with all their heart, soul, mind and strength and love their neighbors as themselves (Mark 12:30-31).

    Shabbat Shalom
     
  5. gadar perets

    gadar perets Messianic Hebrew

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    Shabbat Shalom!

    You make it sound like the Feast of Weeks and the Feast of Shavuot are two different feasts. They are the same thing and both fall on the 50th day. The 49 days are not a feast.
     
  6. AbbaLove

    AbbaLove Circumcision of the Heart is Messianic

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    Opps! Was misinterpreting your previous comment when you said, "I don't see where it says this was a religious feast" (#3) in reference to 2 Chronicles 15:10. Thought you were implying that the Feast of Weeks may have been observed as a separate occasion by Israel over 7 weeks (49 days) leading up to the Feast of Shavuot on the 50th Day when all males had to be in Jerusalem. Thanks for clarifying your previous post (#3).

    That said, 2 Chronicles 15:10 does seem to imply the 50th Day Feast Of Shavuot being that they all had to be in Jerusalem on the 50th Day, if not by the 49th Day. The only Feast of the LORD that time of the year where males gather in Jerusalem is the Feast of Shavuot celebrating the Firstfruits of the wheat harvest on the 50th Day. A foreshadow of the circumcision of the heart by His Spirit that happened in Acts 2:1-4.

    Note: Any idea why is it that any scripture posted from either Matthew, Mark, Luke and John can be opened, but apparently no scripture posted from Acts (e.g. Acts 2:1-4) can be opened in this MJ forum or other CF forums? At least that seems to be my experience when trying to post any scripture from Acts
     
  7. Heber Book List

    Heber Book List Theologian [Applied Theology]

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    1) The text doesn't say 'the same day'

    2) The writer should have written 2 Chron. 15:10ff
     
  8. Heber Book List

    Heber Book List Theologian [Applied Theology]

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    The Feast of Weeks is what the writer wrote. In the diaspora it is two days.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2018
  9. gadar perets

    gadar perets Messianic Hebrew

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    How should it read?

    Meaning?
     
  10. gadar perets

    gadar perets Messianic Hebrew

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    I was referring to AbbaLove's post #4.
     
  11. Heber Book List

    Heber Book List Theologian [Applied Theology]

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    It just doesn't mention anything about a day - it reads as per the OP..

    Meaning - read on a bit!
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2018
  12. Heber Book List

    Heber Book List Theologian [Applied Theology]

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    I can't see those posts - the poster is blocked.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2018
  13. Heber Book List

    Heber Book List Theologian [Applied Theology]

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    Now we have affirmed the quoted text, what about the rest of the quote?
     
  14. gadar perets

    gadar perets Messianic Hebrew

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    The OP does not quote the entire verse. Here it is from the KJV and NASB;

    Exo 19:1 In the third month, when the children of Israel were gone forth out of the land of Egypt, the same day came they into the wilderness of Sinai. KJV

    Exo 19:1 In the third month after the sons of Israel had gone out of the land of Egypt, on that very day they came into the wilderness of Sinai. NASB​
     
  15. Heber Book List

    Heber Book List Theologian [Applied Theology]

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    Because that was not what the writer wrote. BTW I have checked my copy of the Tanach and it doesn't include any words about any particular day. or number of days. I cannot change what the writer wrote in the quotation in the OP - it is at it is.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2018
  16. Heber Book List

    Heber Book List Theologian [Applied Theology]

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    Now, can we get on with the rest of the quote, after these pages of dealing with the phrasing of the Bible quotes.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2018
  17. Heber Book List

    Heber Book List Theologian [Applied Theology]

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    BUMP
     
  18. gadar perets

    gadar perets Messianic Hebrew

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    The OP said, "The first time the connection is openly mentioned is in the Book of Jubilees, which puts all the Covenants it can discover in the [Tanach] (from Noah to Sinai) on the first day of the Feast of Weeks." I would like to see a quote from Jubilees and proof that those covenants fell on Shavuot. Noah exited the ark on the 27th day of the second month. It seem the covenant with him and all mankind was made very shortly afterwards. I don't see 9-10 days elapsing before Shavuot came. Also, it would not have been Shavuot since that holy day did not exist until Israel entered the land.
     
  19. Heber Book List

    Heber Book List Theologian [Applied Theology]

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    The quote does not use the words Shavout. He says it was called the Feast of Weeks. The relatively modern name is your input, not his. It is mentioned in 2 Maccabees 12:31-32 and Tobias 2:1 but not in connection with the findings in the OP.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2018
  20. Heber Book List

    Heber Book List Theologian [Applied Theology]

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    If you want to read the quote in context read Roland de Vaux, Ancient Israel; its Life and Institutions Darton, Longman & Todd. pp 493 to 495. It is a classical history of the Land and its times.

    Or if you are too busy, this comes from a simple Wikipedia search:
    The Book of Jubilees and the Essenes
    This literal interpretation of 'Shabbat' as the weekly Shabbat, was shared by the 2nd-century BCE author of the Book of Jubilees who was motivated by the priestly sabbatical solar calendar of the 3rd and 2nd centuries BCE, which was designed to have festivals and Sabbaths fall on the same day of the week every year. On this calendar (best known from the Book of Luminaries in 1 Enoch), Shavuot fell on the 15th of Sivan, a Sunday. The date was reckoned fifty days from the first Sabbath after Passover (i.e. from the 25th of Nisan). Thus, Jub. 1:1 claims that Moses ascended Mount Sinai to receive the Torah "on the sixteenth day of the third month in the first year of the Exodus of the children of Israel from Egypt".

    In Jub. 6:15–22 and 44:1–5, the holiday is traced to the appearance of the first rainbow on the 15th of Sivan, the day on which God made his covenant with Noah.

    The Qumran community, commonly associated with the Essenes, held in its library several texts mentioning Shavuot, most notably a Hebrew original of the Book of Jubilees, which sought to fix the celebration of this Feast of Weeks on 15 of Sivan, following their interpretation of Exodus 19:1.

    Joseph Fitzmyer Responses to 101 questions on the Dead Sea scrolls 1992 p. 87 – "Particularly important for the Qumran community was the celebration of this Feast of Weeks on III/15, because according to Ex. 19:1 Israel arrived in its exodus-wandering at Mt. Sinai in the third month after leaving Egypt. Later the renewal of the Covenant came to be celebrated on the Feast of Weeks (see Jubilees). Qumran community was deeply researched by Flavius Josephus."
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2018
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