Following Obama's legacy...

tonnerkiller

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You and I, as Christians, can't begin to speculate about what Muslims want or how they feel. They must speak for themselves.
First you ask a question and after I anser it you say I shold not do so. I am confused.
The Middle East has never not been at war amongst their numerous and varied tribes.
Like there was one day without lynchings, gang war killings, wild west shootouts and the like in the USA in the days since Civil War. How many "Indian Wars" have you fought since then? And you forget about the Middle East being several Countries, while the USA is only one country.

What wonders me the most is that you seem to be offended by the thought that people living in a war zone long for peace...
 
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As a US citizen, was this raid to get her out or to capture or kill a different target?

The latter.

I know it matters not what the purpose was...she is a non combatant!

Exactly. Last I checked, 14 combatants were killed and 16 non-combatants, including 3 children (one of them being an American citizen and the daughter of the American citizen assassinated without due process a few years back).
 
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redleghunter

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bhsmte

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I mean, that's sort of irrelevant and very broad. The intentional targeting of non-combatants is prohibited in my religion whether the killers and killed are Muslims or not.



That's also very broad. A lot of it right now in Syria, Yemen, and Iraq is about retaining power, sectarianism, and geopolitics (and those things aren't mutually exclusive either).



True, though I posted knowing the account was verified and of a journalist. Also, the alt-left (including Glenn Greenwald and co) have left a bad taste in my mouth after their hypocrisy regarding Syria. But I do recognize their value regarding civil rights for Americans.



That's fair



Apparently hit by a lot of bullets, including one in the neck. She was left to bleed out for 2 hours before she died. Details were very hard to come by.



He's dead. The bottom line is that Anwar al-Awlaki was a US citizen and was not an imminent threat to the country. Therefore, Obama ordered the assassination of an American citizen not an imminent threat without due process.

And then they killed his 16-year-old American son later, which they have been tight-lipped regarding. And now they killed his 8-year-old American daughter and Trump didn't even acknowledge this. All he said was something about fighting evil Islaamic radicalism. Because he gets a point every time he specifically mentions Islaam, to the extent that people will brush aside how he presided over the murder of an 8-year-old American girl in that same event he calls a success.

How do you define; combatants and non combatants, in your religion?
 
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TerranceL

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I don't think anyone is saying it is ok to kill children.
I would argue that there are people in government who have made the argument that dead children is an acceptable outcome as long as the target is killed.
 
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How do you define; combatants and non combatants, in your religion?

"During some of the battles of the Prophet a woman was found killed. Allaah’s Messenger disapproved the killing of women and children." [Saheeh Bukhari]

Ibn al Qayyim, a classical scholar (d. 1350 CE) said, "Killing is only obligatory when facing warfare and armed combat not when facing kufr (disbelief). For this reason, neither women are to be killed nor children, or the elderly, nor the blind nor those worshippers who do not fight, rather we fight against those who fight us. This was the way of the Messenger of Allaah in dealing with the people of the earth, he used to fight those who fought against him until they either entered into the deen, made an agreement or treaty with him, or came under his authority via paying the jizyah. This is what he used to instruct his armies if they fought against their enemies, as has preceded from the Hadeeth of Buraydah". ["Ahkaam Ahl al-Dhimmah", Vol 1, Page 17]
 
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CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN

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"Though the United States hailed the operation as a success, reports from Yemen would seem to indicate that the price paid by Yemeni civilians and non-combatants was extraordinarily high."

"In a Facebook post, Nawar’s uncle and former Yemeni Deputy Minister of the Environment and Water Resources, Ammar Al-Aulaqi said: “[Nawar] was shot several times, with one bullet piercing her neck. She was bleeding for two hours because it was not possible to get her medical attention.”"

“As Nawar was always a personality and a mind far older than her years, she was reassuring her mother as she was bleeding out; ‘Don’t cry mama, I’m fine, I’m fine’,” Ammar’s emotional post continued.

“Then the call to the Dawn prayer came, and her soul departed from her tiny body.”

Yemeni politician Ali Albukhaiti tweeted: “Nawar Al-Awlaki was not killed in an airstrike, but by a bullet fired by a marine and at close range. It is terrorism beyond terrorism, but it is defended and justified by a media that markets [such attacks].”


US soldiers shoot and kill 8-year-old girl in Yemen

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Wow, This poor little kid is dead. And people make excuses. Sad.
 
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bhsmte

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"During some of the battles of the Prophet a woman was found killed. Allaah’s Messenger disapproved the killing of women and children." [Saheeh Bukhari]

Ibn al Qayyim, a classical scholar (d. 1350 CE) said, "Killing is only obligatory when facing warfare and armed combat not when facing kufr (disbelief). For this reason, neither women are to be killed nor children, or the elderly, nor the blind nor those worshippers who do not fight, rather we fight against those who fight us. This was the way of the Messenger of Allaah in dealing with the people of the earth, he used to fight those who fought against him until they either entered into the deen, made an agreement or treaty with him, or came under his authority via paying the jizyah. This is what he used to instruct his armies if they fought against their enemies, as has preceded from the Hadeeth of Buraydah". ["Ahkaam Ahl al-Dhimmah", Vol 1, Page 17]

Not sure this answers my question.
 
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More details:

“It is true they were targeting al Qaeda but why did they have to kill children and women and elderly people?” said Zabnallah Saif al Ameri, who lost nine members of his extended family, five of whom were children. “If such slaughter happened in their country, there would be a lot of shouting about human rights. When our children are killed, they are quiet.”

....His [Sheikh Abdelilah Ahmed al Dahab] son Ahmed was the first casualty. According to al Dahab the 11-year-old was woken by the commotion outside and went to see what was going on. “When my son Ahmed saw them, he couldn’t tell that they were soldiers because it was dark,” he said. “He asked them ‘Who are you?’ but the men shot him. He was the first killed. No one thought that marines would descend on our homes to kill us, kill our children and kill our women.”

Three witnesses said the commandos shot at everyone who left their homes. In these lawless parts of Yemen every home has a Kalashnikov and the residents reached for their guns “to defend their homes and their honour,” Abdelilah al Dahab said.

The villagers say 38-year-old mother of seven, Fatim Saleh al Ameri was fatally shot by special operators while trying to flee with her two-year-old son Mohammed. “We pulled him out from his mother’s lap. He was covered in her blood,” said 11-year-old Basil Ahmed Abad al Zouba, whose 17-year-old brother was killed.

The al Ameri family was particularly badly hit. Abdallah, 65, who had survived the attack on his wedding party three years earlier, was killed alongside his 25-year-old daughter Fatima and 38-year-old son Mohammed. Three of Mohammed’s four children also died – Aisha, 4, Khadija, 7, and Hussein, 5. A further nine members of the extended family were killed.

...As the firefight ensued, helicopter gunships appeared and “shot at everything”, including at homes and people fleeing, Sadiq al Jawfi and other witnesses said. Fahad Ali al Ameri woke up to the gunfire. “I was woken up after midnight by the bombing of the helicopters. There were soldiers on the ground shooting at us. They started shooting at us with machine gun fire.” He says a missile fired at his home, killing his three-month-old daughter as she lay asleep in her crib.

...The eight-year-old daughter of the late radical American preacher Anwar al Awlaqi, who was visiting her uncle Abdelilah al Dahab, was hiding in a room when it was attacked by the gunships, her uncle said. “Some of the gunfire went through the windows and Nawar was injured in her neck,” he said.

Nine young children killed: The full details of botched US raid in Yemen
 
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dgiharris

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We can't solve world problems if we keep ignoring reality and basic truths.

How many terrorists did we just create when news of this little girl's death hit the interwebz???

I know the world is not perfect and I know that collateral damage cannot be prevented all the time. However, I'm feeling a certain level of "laziness" in regards to our foreign policy and our strategies in dealing with terrorism and conflicts around the world.

We need to stop dehumanizing Muslims and we need to stop that crap now. I'm so sick and tired of it. This notion that Muslims are just inferior, savages, etc... Everytime you say something like that you are just shoveling dollars into the furnace of the War Machine, aka Military Industrial Complex.

sigh, we need to take a hard look at how we are doing things and start asking ourselves some uncomfortable questions. Because lord knows how many terrorists we just created :(
 
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What exactly is Obama's legacy?

Killing American citizens without due process. Though to be fair, only Obama ordered the assassination of Anwar al Awlaki and the murder of his son is still a mystery. Trump has not ordered a hit on an American citizen without due process as of yet, though at least one died as a result of a raid in Yemen.

Killing members of the al-Awlaki family. Obama was responsible for killing 2 of them (Anwar al Awlaki and his 16-year-old son) and Trump was responsible for 1 (the 8-year-old daughter of Anwar al-Awlaki).
 
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In theory, the residents of al Ghayil are on the same side as the United States..

...local armed tribesmen assumed the Houthis had arrived to capture their village. After the firefight started, some of the men who ran to defend their families and homes saw colored lasers emanating from the weapons of their opponents, raising suspicions they might be facing Americans.

...Sheikh Aziz al Ameri, the head of the al Ameri clan, lost 20 members of his extended family, six of them children, the youngest only 3 months old. “Everyone who tried to run, they killed them,” he said, standing on the hilltop outside his home 11 days later.

...Mohammed al Taysi, the tribesman who tried to join the fight in al Ghayil, put it succinctly as we parted company at dusk along the track out of Yakla. “If they come back,” he said, referring to the SEALs, “tell them to bring their caskets. From now we are ready for any fight with the Americans and the dog Trump.”


Death in al Ghayil

Trump made additional enemies of the people the US was supposedly on the side of. Just like in Syria. Again, following Obama's legacy.
 
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^The same woman who interviewed and stayed with the Yemenis (the author of that article) also said this:

"So when this raid happened, it was in an area that was under the — well, “under the control” is a very loose term, really, but was on the side of the Saudi-led coalition. And yes, there is Al-Qaeda fighting in that area. There is Islamic state fighting in that area. But they’re fighting against the Houthis and the former President Saleh. So effectively, this raid was against people who were, in theory, at least, on the same side as the U.S. in this war in Yemen at the moment.

...IC: Well, they were totally confused when this first happened. It happened, obviously, in the middle of the night. As we know, they chose a deliberately moonless night, so it was dark. And because of the war, they’d been fighting the Houthi-Saleh forces in that area since the end of 2014. They assumed their village was being raided by the Houthi-Saleh forces. So every man with a gun within hearing distance of a gunshot, or then later, the helicopters that joined in, came in to defend the village, totally unaware that it was Americans they were going up against. And so, what happened was, you’ve got a predominantly civilian population in a very remote village on the side of a mountain in Yemen, and the Navy SEALS got pinned down. And when they got pinned down, of course, they called in air support, and they strafed the entire village. So you had women and children quite literally running for their lives, who were then gunned down by helicopter gunship fire. You had airstrikes and drone strikes being carried out.

And what you looked at from when I got there, sort of 11 days later, was blind panic of trying to get the SEALs out once they’d got themselves stuck in a situation of being overwhelmed by local tribesmen who were defending their village. And there were a small number of low-level al Qaeda militants who were also staying in one house, it appeared, that was at the bottom of this village on a hill. And the Navy SEALs were coming from the lower ground, so they were already at a disadvantage because the men that were coming in to support the fight, the locals, were on the higher ground as well. So even before they went in there, it was gonna be a very dangerous operation anyway because they should have realized that everybody was gonna come to defend that village because it’s right near the frontlines of the civil war at the moment.

...And even if they did, the house that I mentioned that they were supposedly staying in ended up being droned and blown up before the SEALs could even get to it because of the fire that they were coming under.....Certainly, the house that may have held anything in it, cell phones, laptop, or whatever, was destroyed before the Navy SEALs could even get inside.

...And they targeted the village again. They killed two more children, three more adults, some of whom I’d actually met when I was in the village. They saw it as revenge — as revenge for killing a Navy SEAL, basically — that the Americans were coming back to destroy their village entirely and to make sure that everybody was gone.

...Yes, they were already supporting the Saudi-led coalition, but now the people that were supposedly on their side, they now see them as helping their opponents."


Intercepted Podcast: Could Trump Start World War III?


Of course, this is from the Intercept so somehow it manages a way to sort of defend Iran even though it is a fact that Iran is helping the Houthis commit terror.
 
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