Following Obama's legacy...

Jan 25, 2013
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...in killing members of the al-Awlaki family, particularly Anwar al-Awlaki's (an American citizen) children. 10 days in and Trump has already presided over this.

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"That's 8yo Nawaar al-Awlaki. Obama's drones killed her brother. Trump's soldiers shot her. I wonder which news papers will print her pic."

Unsettling how many Muslims there are that still like Obama despite his ignoring of Assad and targeting of rebels in Syria, despite his aggressive pushing of the Iran nuclear deal, the deportations, the drone strikes, etc. It's easy to not like Trump (thankfully most Muslims don't) but I feel like they should've seen past Obama's charisma and intelligence as well and seen that many of his policies weren't so great either.
 
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singpraise

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Muslims are killing Muslims. All over the world. Do you have thoughts about that?

From my little corner of the world, in a quiet, small town in America, and with all political rhetoric aside, I find it very difficult to understand that. What is the end goal with all the killings in the Middle East? What do the people there want?
 
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singpraise

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I'd guess they want peace like the people of the USA did in the Civil War.

You and I, as Christians, can't begin to speculate about what Muslims want or how they feel. They must speak for themselves.

And your Civil War reference is very inept, to say the least. Zero relation between the two situations. The Middle East has never not been at war amongst their numerous and varied tribes.
 
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Rion

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redleghunter

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...in killing members of the al-Awlaki family, particularly Anwar al-Awlaki's (an American citizen) children. 10 days in and Trump has already presided over this.

C3W4rArWAAAmL5p.jpg

"That's 8yo Nawaar al-Awlaki. Obama's drones killed her brother. Trump's soldiers shot her. I wonder which news papers will print her pic."

Unsettling how many Muslims there are that still like Obama despite his ignoring of Assad and targeting of rebels in Syria, despite his aggressive pushing of the Iran nuclear deal, the deportations, the drone strikes, etc. It's easy to not like Trump (thankfully most Muslims don't) but I feel like they should've seen past Obama's charisma and intelligence as well and seen that many of his policies weren't so great either.
Lord have Mercy.

How was she shot by US military. I take a very serious interest in how the laws of armed conflict are violated.
 
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redleghunter

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Someone find Robert Gibbs and see if he's going to blame her death on who her father was the way he did with her older brother.
I must have missed that. Did Gibbs take the "bad parenting" defense.

That boiled my blood when I heard that in Iraq.
 
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TerranceL

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The bottom line is al-Awlaki was a TERRORIST. He put his own children in harm's way, as terrorists always do. They use children as shields and then whine when their shields are harmed. He is responsible for their deaths and NOBODY ELSE.
He died in 2011, his son was nowhere near his father when he was murdered, he daughter was murdered just a few days ago.

How was he using his children as shields when they weren't near him?

Was she sitting on his grave?
 
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redleghunter

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The bottom line is al-Awlaki was a TERRORIST. He put his own children in harm's way, as terrorists always do. They use children as shields and then whine when their shields are harmed. He is responsible for their deaths and NOBODY ELSE.

Down and dirty the above may be true. As using non combatants as human shields is nothing new under the sun for radical Islamism.

However, killing any non combatants is prohibited by the Laws of Armed Conflict (LOAC).

Unless...Unless not engaging the target presents an imminent threat to other more populated areas with non combatants or combatant forces. For example, if a terrorist was assembling a chemical agent to kill thousands or millions, the justification of destroying the target area becomes an imminent threat, thus the human shields dying although a tragedy would be deemed acceptable collateral damage. The necessity of the attack to save many more lives outweighs the few human shields. Yes kind of a Kobiashi Maru situation.

Another situation is where a terrorist group holes up in a hospital or apartment building. Both structures alone are protected facilities by LOAC. However, if the combatant terrorists use the sites to directly engage opposing forces, by LOAC the opposing or pursuing forces can engage as right of self protection. That building for THAT specific engagement loses its protected status.

Ok legalese aside, leaders have to make moral decisions within the LOAC.

In my chemical assembly example, a commander must justify the urgency of the situation outweighs the death of human shield non combatants. This will be based on intelligence collection. Very detailed pattern of life intelligence, with detailed corroboration of intelligence on the urgency of an upcoming attack. Very difficult to do and we all know the history of such situations going very badly. We've had some complete disasters.

For the protected facility example, I emphasized the importance of the current situation. If US helicopters are flying around looking for the enemy and then take direct effective fire from the rooftop of a hospital; and the crews take casualties or damage, or are put in imminent danger, by LOAC, the crews can proportionally return fire on the hospital roof top.

Again for that particular fire fight and any pursuit.

Now proportionality is key. The crew can return fire to handle the threat. Not call in a B1 to level the hospital. That would be disproportionate and illegal.

Also, after the exchange at the hospital ceases, you cannot use that one incident to justify a daily bombing campaign on the hospital. You can send ground troops to clear the hospital to safeguard non combatants.

That's the down and dirty.

If al-Awlaki presented a clear and imminent threat to the greater populace in the specific time and space of the attacks on him, LOAC would support the attacks.

However, I call such attacks into question. Why? I used to staff Kinetic Strike packages in Iraq for 3 and 4 star generals. I was the one who briefed them directly on each packet, describe the pattern of life analysis and the projected non-combatant casualties. Each and every time when non-combatants were involved, my 3 star General boss would pick up the phone and tell the 2 star to use direct action on the ground instead of bombing a house or mosque with non combatants present. Every time.
 
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redleghunter

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He died in 2011, his son was nowhere near his father when he was murdered, he daughter was murdered just a few days ago.

How was he using his children as shields when they weren't near him?

Was she sitting on his grave?
To be honest I would need to see the target folder to even opine on why his daughter was a target.

My guess is whoever took over for al-Awlaki is in charge of the protection of his family. Perhaps the target was the successor.

Don't know. Either way, as I opined up thread, there are legal requirements by LOAC for attacking a personality target or cell before bombs away. The #1 entry argument is always a non combatant analysis.
 
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Rion

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The bottom line is al-Awlaki was a TERRORIST. He put his own children in harm's way, as terrorists always do. They use children as shields and then whine when their shields are harmed. He is responsible for their deaths and NOBODY ELSE.

The father was an American citizen Obama executed without a trial. When his 16 year old son learned he was marked for death, he went over there to try and convince his dad to turn himself in. He died before his son found him. Afterwards, they killed the boy with a drone missile.

She was 8 years old.

I think he means if they even knew she was there. The attack was set up by Obama and then handed off to Trump, so the family might've been brought in to the location between the planning and attack. Still wrong, however.
 
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Muslims are killing Muslims. All over the world. Do you have thoughts about that?

I mean, that's sort of irrelevant and very broad. The intentional targeting of non-combatants is prohibited in my religion whether the killers and killed are Muslims or not.

From my little corner of the world, in a quiet, small town in America, and with all political rhetoric aside, I find it very difficult to understand that. What is the end goal with all the killings in the Middle East? What do the people there want?

That's also very broad. A lot of it right now in Syria, Yemen, and Iraq is about retaining power, sectarianism, and geopolitics (and those things aren't mutually exclusive either).

I'd suggest posting this in the OP, as twitter isn't really a great source for valid information.
Obama Killed a 16-Year-Old American in Yemen. Trump Just Killed His 8-Year-Old Sister.

True, though I posted knowing the account was verified and of a journalist. Also, the alt-left (including Glenn Greenwald and co) have left a bad taste in my mouth after their hypocrisy regarding Syria. But I do recognize their value regarding civil rights for Americans.

I'm completely opposed to this, but I do have lots of questions before I can facilitate a response.

That's fair

Lord have Mercy.

How was she shot by US military. I take a very serious interest in how the laws of armed conflict are violated.

Apparently hit by a lot of bullets, including one in the neck. She was left to bleed out for 2 hours before she died. Details were very hard to come by.

The bottom line is al-Awlaki was a TERRORIST. He put his own children in harm's way, as terrorists always do. They use children as shields and then whine when their shields are harmed. He is responsible for their deaths and NOBODY ELSE.

He's dead. The bottom line is that Anwar al-Awlaki was a US citizen and was not an imminent threat to the country. Therefore, Obama ordered the assassination of an American citizen not an imminent threat without due process.

And then they killed his 16-year-old American son later, which they have been tight-lipped regarding. And now they killed his 8-year-old American daughter and Trump didn't even acknowledge this. All he said was something about fighting evil Islaamic radicalism. Because he gets a point every time he specifically mentions Islaam, to the extent that people will brush aside how he presided over the murder of an 8-year-old American girl in that same event he calls a success.
 
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"Though the United States hailed the operation as a success, reports from Yemen would seem to indicate that the price paid by Yemeni civilians and non-combatants was extraordinarily high."

"In a Facebook post, Nawar’s uncle and former Yemeni Deputy Minister of the Environment and Water Resources, Ammar Al-Aulaqi said: “[Nawar] was shot several times, with one bullet piercing her neck. She was bleeding for two hours because it was not possible to get her medical attention.”"

“As Nawar was always a personality and a mind far older than her years, she was reassuring her mother as she was bleeding out; ‘Don’t cry mama, I’m fine, I’m fine’,” Ammar’s emotional post continued.

“Then the call to the Dawn prayer came, and her soul departed from her tiny body.”

Yemeni politician Ali Albukhaiti tweeted: “Nawar Al-Awlaki was not killed in an airstrike, but by a bullet fired by a marine and at close range. It is terrorism beyond terrorism, but it is defended and justified by a media that markets [such attacks].”


US soldiers shoot and kill 8-year-old girl in Yemen

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"The past week has given us yet another insight into how Western powers habitually devalue Muslim lives. Here, I am not necessarily talking about US President Donald Trump’s controversial immigration freeze, dubbed a “Muslim Ban” due to the countries it targets. What Trump is doing is a symptom of a far worse disease – that of the dehumanisation of Muslim lives, particularly those living in Muslim-majority countries."

"...we learned that US Navy SEALs bungled their way into Yakla in Yemen over the weekend, killing at least 16 Yemeni civilians, most of whom were women and children."

"Both of these children were US citizens, killed by the armed forces of their own government, forces that are supposed to protect them...Regarding Abdulrahman, the US government ignored the matter of his assassination for ages before eventually saying that he was not the intended target, and brushed him off as “collateral damage”. Nawar has not even received acknowledgement that she was so brutally killed by the White House.

Instead, Trump released a statement that mourned the loss of one of the SEALs who was involved in the botched operation. “Americans are saddened this morning with news that a life of a heroic service member has been taken in our fight against the evil of radical Islamic terrorism,” Trump said, seemingly oblivious to the fact that a little girl being shot in the neck by gung-ho military operatives is right down there at Satan-levels of evil."


Kill our kids, then call us terrorists
 
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redleghunter

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Apparently hit by a lot of bullets, including one in the neck. She was left to bleed out for 2 hours before she died. Details were very hard to come by.

As a US citizen, was this raid to get her out or to capture or kill a different target?

I know it matters not what the purpose was...she is a non combatant!
 
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