FOLLOWING MAN MADE TRADITIONS AND TEACHINGS OR THE WORD OF GOD?

[LoveGodsWord]

What isn’t a tradition of men?

Tom, nice to meet you. There of course is nothing wrong with man-made teachings and traditions in and of themselves. What makes them wrong from a scriptural perspective according to the words of Jesus in Matthew 15:2-9 is when they lead us away from God and His Word to break Gods' commandments. Have you read Matthew 15:2-9? What are your thoughts?

God bless

 

[Abaxvahl]

So how do you think Matthew 15:2-9 fits in with this discussion and what do you think Jesus is saying there?

That any who make void the Commandments of God by their sophistry and false traditions are condemned.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Seems Jesus was referring to one commandment the 5th honor thy father and mother in Mathew 15:5-9 that is the one commandment the subject is on. doesn't seem to imply multiple commandments

Hi BeyondET, thanks for joining us and sharing your view. For me Matthew 15:2-9 are interesting scriptures. Jesus is giving the example here of man-made teachings and traditions that break the 5th commandment of honoring our parent. According to the scripture in James 2:10-11 if we break anyone of Gods 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of breaking all of them in James 2:10-11.

So the example provided by Jesus in Matthew 15:2-9 can be applied to anyone of Gods' 10 commandments. Jesus is saying here that if we knowingly follow man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God we are not worshiping God by doing this. If we applied this to Gods' 4th commandment or God's 7th commandment we would still get the same outcome and message here. This therefore begs the question in the OP in my view because if we are knowingly following man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God we are not truly worshiping God according to Jesus.

However, I believe God knows that many break Gods' 4th commandment out of ignorance and we are told in the scriptures, "in times of ignorance God winks at but when he gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word he calls all men everywhere to believe and follow what he says (see Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31 and James 4:17). According to the scriptures God does not hold us accountable for sin until he gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word and we choose to turn away from His Word to continue in known unrepentant sin (see Hebrews 10:26-31).

I personally believe according to the scriptures Gods' people are in every Church living up to all the knowledge of His Word that he has revealed to them *John 10:16, but the hour is coming and now is that the true worshipers will worship the father in Spirit and in truth. As God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth *John 4:23-24. According to the scriptures BABYLON has fallen *Revelation 14:7-12. Many of the Christian religions of the world today have fallen away from God and His Word following the teaching and tradition of men that have led many away from God and his Word to break the commandments of God. God is calling us out from these religious traditions and teachings back to worship Him according to His Word in Spirit and in truth *see Revelation 18:1-5. According to the scriptures there will be one shepherd and one fold (John 10:16) and Gods sheep (the true worshipers) will hear His voice (the Word) and follow him but those who do not hear and do not follow do so because they are not His sheep *John 10:26-27.

God bless

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Seems not much of what Jesus was saying about the 5th commandment in Matt15 was a subject of the 4th commandment

God's 4th commandment is one of Gods' 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is in the new covenant scriptures *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and if we break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin according to James 2:10-11. Therefore the subject matter of Matthew 15:2-9 is applicable to anyone one of Gods' 10 commandments. If we knowingly follow man-made teachings and traditions that lead us away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God according to Jesus we are not worshiping God. I believe this is the great testing question that will come to everyone of us before Jesus returns. Who do we believe and follow; God or man? You shall know them by their fruits says Jesus.

God bless.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

That makes sense, which those two covers them all, Matthew 22 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Exactly! Good point BeyondET. No one can claim to love God or their fellow man therefore by breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments as love is expressed in obedience to Gods' law not by breaking God's law in all those who have been born again of the Spirit into God's new covenant promise to believe and follow what Gods' word says (see *John 3:3-7; 1 John 3:4-9; 1 John 2:3-4; Romans 8:1-4; Romans 3:31; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14; Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12 and of course Matthew 22:36-40).

God bless.

 

[SkyWriting]

SHOULD WE FOLLOW MAN-MADE TEACHINGS AND TRADITIONS THAT ARE AGAINST GOD'S WORD?

Not if you intentionally do so. But if you are not aware, then no problem.
Jesus said this directly.

 

[BeyondET]

God's 4th commandment is one of Gods' 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is in the new covenant scriptures *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and if we break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin according to James 2:10-11. Therefore the subject matter of Matthew 15:2-9 is applicable to anyone one of Gods' 10 commandments. If we knowingly follow man-made teachings and traditions that lead us away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God according to Jesus we are not worshiping God. I believe this is the great testing question that will come to everyone of us before Jesus returns. Who do we believe and follow; God or man? You shall know them by their fruits says Jesus.

God bless.

And then there is this
Romans 14
5 Some judge one day to be better than another, while others judge all days to be alike. Let all be fully convinced in their own minds. 6 Those who observe the day, observe it in honor of the Lord. Also those who eat, eat in honor of the Lord, since they give thanks to God; while those who abstain, abstain in honor of the Lord and give thanks to God.

 

[BeyondET]

Exactly! Good point BeyondET. No one can claim to love God or their fellow man therefore by breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments as love is expressed in obedience to Gods' law not by breaking God's law in all those who have been born again of the Spirit into God's new covenant promise to believe and follow what Gods' word says (see *John 3:3-7; 1 John 3:4-9; 1 John 2:3-4; Romans 8:1-4; Romans 3:31; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14; Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12 and of course Matthew 22:36-40).

God bless.

Isn't there 613 commandments listed in the bible? shouldn't we adhere to the other 603?

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

What does scripture say about it?

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.​

Hi John has a thesis statement in chapter 20 for the purpose of his entire gospel.
30 And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

All other portions of John are writing towards this end and in my example the man has believed in Jesus the Christ the son fo the Living God and you are judging that case as unsaved because he is not following your understanding of the Sabbath.

John chapter 8 starts with a woman caught in adultery and Jesus had compassion on her and did not condemn her but told her to go and sin no more. Then he contrasts that with his discussion with the pharisees and says
21 Then Jesus said to them again, “I am going away, and you will seek Me, and will die in your sin. Where I go you cannot come.”

22 So the Jews said, “Will He kill Himself, because He says, ‘Where I go you cannot come’?”

23 And He said to them, “You are from beneath; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”

In my example this man believes in Jesus and in this text it has nothing to do with Isaiah

What does scripture say about it?

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.​

Hi do you check the context of the passages you quote? Isiah 8 19,20
19 And when they say to you, “Seek those who are mediums and wizards, who whisper and mutter,” should not a people seek their God? Should they seek the dead on behalf of the living? 20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
those who are seeking mediums and wizards not seeking the LORD tare the ones who have no light in them. This has nothing to do with what we were discussing. You are free to enjoy Saturday Sabbath but this is not the heart of the law as Jesus said those who look on a woman to lust at them have already committed adultery in their heart. now as for the Sabbath resting in Christ and setting aside time for the LORD is the heart of the matter not what day you do it. You have missed the point and bring a legalism that is much like the religious rulers of that day.

 

[SkyWriting]

If faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God *Romans 10:17 how can you have faith if you have no Word? For without faith it is impossible to please God for he that comes to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.*Hebrews 11:6 and whatsoever is not of faith is sin *Romans 14:23

Take Care.

Paul was ignorant, and not perfect. Like any sinner, but worse.

“This is a trustworthy saying, and everyone should accept it: ‘Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners’—and I am the worst of them all” (NLT).

Why does anyone not believe Paul is the worst of all sinners?
'Cause you not literate.

 

[SkyWriting]

you can eat pie once a week or 7 days a week and the pie maker is happy if you are eating pie the more the better and he does not care what day you eat it on.

Awesome!

 

[SkyWriting]

WHAT IS THE ONLY STANDARD OF TRUTH IN THE BIBLE?

There is none. Ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So men are without excuse.

Romans 1:20
For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

 

[Freth]

Thanks Freth, I liked reading your view from this post and think there is a lot of truth in what you have posted here supported in the scriptures (e.g. Matthew 9:12-13; John 3:18-21; John 3:3-7). How do you think God gives us this heart change so that we can know the truth of His Word and want to believe and follow it in your view or what is the mirror that we should look into to see who we really are?

God bless

The Mirror
The mirror is the word of God, which is a discerner of the heart (Hebrews 4:12). The word of God is the sword of the Spirit (Ephesians 6:16).

The Heart Change
It is impossible to please God without faith; when we come to God, we must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him (Hebrews 11:6). We must seek and love Him with all our heart, mind and soul (Jeremiah 29:13, Matthew 22:37).

Receiving
If we pray, believing, we will receive (Matthew 21:22). We are called to repentance (Matthew 9:13). Jesus said that if we believe and continue (obedience) in His word, we are disciples indeed—then we will know the truth (John 8:31-32). His will is the will of the Father (Matthew 7:21) and the Father dwells fully in Him (Colossians 1:19); we are to do the will of the Father; not everyone that says Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom.

Conclusion

• Faith
  
• Loving God with all your heart, mind and soul
• Seeking diligently
• Prayer
• Repentance
  
• The word of God
• Obedience of the law of God

Without faith, there is a failure to start. Without love, there is no understanding of God or His law (God is love). Without seeking, there is no spiritual growth. Without prayer, there is no personal relationship. Without repentance, there is no remission for sin. Without the word of God, there is no truth. Without obedience, there is no alignment with God's character. Only a personal relationship with your Creator, which is reliant on your active participation and complete dedication, of which the heart is key; if your heart isn't in it then there is a love issue. Note that there is no tradition of men in these things.

 

[HARK!]

MOD HAT ON

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[LoveGodsWord]

In other words you agree with my post.

God bless you

Just providing a different perspective.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

That any who make void the Commandments of God by their sophistry and false traditions are condemned.

This is a good answer. How does it apply (Matthew 15:2-9) to God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

There is none. Ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So men are without excuse.

Romans 1:20
For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

How does the scripture you have provided say that there is no standard of truth defined in the bible? What do you think John 17:17 means?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

LoveGodsWord said: ↑ God's 4th commandment is one of Gods' 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is in the new covenant scriptures *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and if we break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin according to James 2:10-11. Therefore the subject matter of Matthew 15:2-9 is applicable to anyone one of Gods' 10 commandments. If we knowingly follow man-made teachings and traditions that lead us away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God according to Jesus we are not worshiping God. I believe this is the great testing question that will come to everyone of us before Jesus returns. Who do we believe and follow; God or man? You shall know them by their fruits says Jesus.

Your response here...

And then there is this
Romans 14 5 Some judge one day to be better than another, while others judge all days to be alike. Let all be fully convinced in their own minds. 6 Those who observe the day, observe it in honor of the Lord. Also those who eat, eat in honor of the Lord, since they give thanks to God; while those who abstain, abstain in honor of the Lord and give thanks to God.

Where does Romans 14 talk about God's 4th commandment? It is talking about eating and not eating on days that men esteem over other days. It is not talking about eating and not eating on days that God esteems over other days or God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments. According to the scriptures the things that men esteem are an abomination with God *Luke 16:15.

Take Care.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Isn't there 613 commandments listed in the bible? shouldn't we adhere to the other 603?

Why would you need to? We are in the new covenant now not the old covenant. Do you seek out a Levite Priest and practice animal sacrifices in an earthly Sanctuary every time you sin? If not why not?

 

[Tom 1]

Tom, nice to meet you. There of course is nothing wrong with man-made teachings and traditions in and of themselves. What makes them wrong from a scriptural perspective according to the words of Jesus in Matthew 15:2-9 is when they lead us away from God and His Word to break Gods' commandments. Have you read Matthew 15:2-9? What are your thoughts?

God bless

Jesus seems to be comparing legalistic religious observances with the deeper need to love and honour our parents.