Follow-up: can society exist and survive without God?

[Omnedon]

Didaskolos said:

The secular fanatics will not stop until all mention and display of God is removed. Can society exist and survive without God? History says no!

And I've asked for examples from history which demonstrate this claim. Others besides didaskolos may want to chime in.

 

[revolutio]

Considering there has never relaly been a society without God it is tough to say. If you mean can society last without falling back on the concept of God I would say no. It is far too appealing a concept for it or something like to to not resurface.

If he meant just the Christian God then I think quite a few dozen countries would have something to say about that.

I think he just might have been venting over this recent event though.

 

[Philosoft]

I'm at a loss to understand how the US would become such a society. If religion is such a personal relationship, as we are constantly told, no amount of legislation can remove God from the public consciousness. Fact is, we already practice secular governance on a massive scale. The various constitutions and statutes are firmly rooted in Enlightenment thinking, which is demonstrably not Biblical.

 

[Voegelin]

"If there is no objective moral order which everyone must respect, and if each individual is expected to supply his or her own truth and ethic of life, there remains only the path of contractual mechanisms as the way of organizing our living together in society. In such a society the strong will prevail and the weak will be swept aside. As I have written elsewhere, 'If there is no ultimate truth to guide and direct political action, then ideas and convictions can easily be manipulated for reasons of power. As history demonstrates, a democracy without values easily turns into open or thinly disguised totalitarianism"---Pope John Paul

"The things of the spirit come first. Unless we cling to that, all our material prosperity, overwhelming though it may appear, will turn to a barren sceptre in our grasp. If we are to maintain the great heritage which has been bequeathed to us, we must be like-minded as the fathers who created it. We must not sink into a pagan materialism. We must cultivate the reverence which they had for the things that are holy. We must follow the spiritual and moral leadership which they showed. We must keep replenished, that they may glow with a more compelling flame, the altar fires before which they worshiped."--Calvin Coolidge

"I would advise you . . .to burn this piece before it is seen by any other person, whereby you will save yourself a great deal of mortification by the enemies it may raise against you, and perhaps a great deal of regret and repentance. If men are so wicked with religion,what would they be if without it?"--Ben Franklin letter to Thomas Paine on Paine's 'Age of Reason'.

"The Christian religion is above all the religions that ever prevailed or existed in ancient or modem times, the religion of wisdom, virtue, equity, and humanity, let the blackguard Paine say what he will; it is resignation to God, it is goodness itself to man."--John Adams

 

[Philosoft]

That's nice. I can pick philosophical and historical bones with any of the so-called arguments presented in those quotes. Do you honestly think argument ad quotandum establishes some logical truth?

 

[Ray K]

No, they cannot survive without God. This is because the societies that have "God" use their religious zeal to exterminate the ones that don't.

 

[Voegelin]

Philosoft....oh BS.

Yes you can pick this and that but you cannot find anything which makes any sense. And you are too lazy to find good quotes anyways. You scurry to Infidels.com or some other whacked out homosexual site to get your hate speech against Christians.

You BS is a big yawn. We've seen the same dreck posted over and over.

I just made a secular argument for religion and you are too freaking stupid to even see it. Right away, you scurry down the homosexual rat hole and start tossing homosexual bromides.


PSSSSHHHH...to that....

 

[jhessel]

we shall see if society survives without God when the u.n becomes the one world government. (but it wont last long)

actually i can answer it now, NO!

 

[Philosoft]

Yes you can pick this and that but you cannot find anything which makes any sense. And you are too lazy to find good quotes anyways.

I am pretty lazy, I'll grant you that. But what are "good quotes"? I can undoubtedly find something said or written by Richard Dawkins that eviscerates organized religion. Is that what you want? I hope not. Because, unless we're dueling with fundamentals of philosophy or science, I can see little use in merely repeating others' sound-bite opinions.

You scurry to Infidels.com or some other whacked out homosexual site to get your hate speech against Christians.

The irony is, most of the regulars at Infidels are tolerant of alternate lifestyles to such a degree that they're rarely a topic of much discussion. CF is orders of magnitude more concerned with homosexuality.

You BS is a big yawn. We've seen the same dreck posted over and over.

And you'll keep seeing it until you realize that we're not out to "get" Christianity and the US is not going to become Stalinist Russia.

I just made a secular argument for religion and you are too freaking stupid to even see it.

I guess I'm also too stupid to understand what's a "secular argument for religion."

Right away, you scurry down the homosexual rat hole and start tossing homosexual bromides.

Well, I'm quite certain I haven't mentioned anything about anything sexual on this thread. You're obviously trying to provoke some particular reaction. Perhaps if you would explain, I might be able to react predictably.

PSSSSHHHH...to that....

Sounds like you've been shaking your Miller Lite cans before you open them.

 

[lunachick]

Philosoft....oh BS.

Yes you can pick this and that but you cannot find anything which makes any sense. And you are too lazy to find good quotes anyways. You scurry to Infidels.com or some other whacked out homosexual site to get your hate speech against Christians.

You BS is a big yawn. We've seen the same dreck posted over and over.

I just made a secular argument for religion and you are too freaking stupid to even see it. Right away, you scurry down the homosexual rat hole and start tossing homosexual bromides.


PSSSSHHHH...to that....

Charming.

 

[lunachick]

NZ is a very secular society and is doing just fine.

Unfortunately, American-style evangelicals are starting to intrude. I hope they don't get a strong foothold, because I'd hate this country to become as ugly as some I know.

 

[Blessed-one]

Please abide by the forum rule:

Rule No. 1 - No "Flaming"

1) You will not post any messages that harass, insult, belittle, threaten or flame another member or guest. You may discuss another member's beliefs but there will be no personal attacks on the member himself or herself. This includes implied accusations that another member is not a Christian.

 

[lunachick]

Blessed-one, sorry to question your authority, but why wasn't such an offensive post edited for it's malicious and vulgar content?

I've seen less deleted or edited back than those hateful comments!

 

[Reader Nilus]

Yes society can exist with out God. Civil Religion makes the state god, the status quo god, its authority god. It is interesting that the martyrs were martyered because of their athiesm! They did not bow before the civil gods. The very heart of Christianity challenges all civil gods and authority because we proclaim the end of death. The very force of government is death, and we say it has been defeated.
We are as Christians strangers and aliens in a strange land.
Jeff the Finn

 

[Budzic]

It is amazing to see so many posts on a Christian forum that attack Christianity.

 

[SqueezetheShaman]

There is a difference between attacking christanity and separating it from the government And keeping it where it belongs, in the church and in the home.

 

[Philosoft]

It is amazing to see so many posts on a Christian forum that attack Christianity.

Not as amazing as it is to see, after all the attempts to explain the pro-separation position, people who STILL. DON'T. GET. IT.

 

[EvolvEarth]

Is it me, or is it that conservative Christians have an urge to dramatize the most meaningless things in life?

 

[Doctrine1st]

Didaskolos said:



And I've asked for examples from history which demonstrate this claim. Others besides didaskolos may want to chime in.

Errr....he's probably still waiting for examples to support this unsupportable assertion, while there are plenty secular nations that are doing just fine with lower crime rates than those that claim to be theist.

 

[strathyboy]

Errr....he's probably still waiting for examples to support this unsupportable assertion, while there are plenty secular nations that are doing just fine with lower crime rates than those that claim to be theist.

Perhaps it would help if we agreed upon a definition of "secular nation" and "theist nation". For example, is a theist nation one with a state religion supported by the government to the exclusion of all others, or simply a religion that allows the people complete religious freedom? Is a secular nation one that bans any and all religious activity, or is it one in which the government is officially non-religious and avoids religious rules or affiliations? Note that it is possible for these definitions to overlap, thus making this entire section of the thread pointless, since people are arguing something that is already agreed upon.