Florida (Tampa) hospitals won't mandate vaccine for workers

[RestoreTheJoy]

I want to know who is coercing these people to get jobs in the medical field to begin with? My mother was an RN, but no one forced her to go to school or to accept a position in a hospital. I worked in hospitals and medical facilities, but no one coerced me or even approached in a coercive manner to work in those fields or facilities. I know a lot of people in the medical field and not a single was coerced into it.

Do you have any articles backing up your theory/accusation that people are being coerced into the medical field or coerced into working in (or staying in) hospitals, dr offices, or anywhere that required vaccines as a condition of their employ? I have definitely missed those articles in all this mess we find ourselves in.

What the heck does choosing the medical field have to do with being forced to take to a brand new, never before used technology injected into you in order to keep your job?

FYI: Do this or you will be fired is coercion on its face. They worked all last year on Covid patients.

Have you missed all the lawsuits? Hospital Employees Sue Over COVID-19 Vaccine Mandate

Workers sue hospital after being ordered to get vaccinated

Workers at St. Elizabeth in Northern Kentucky sue over vaccine mandate

 

[loveofourlord]

What the heck does choosing the medical field have to do with being forced to take to a brand new, never before used technology injected into you in order to keep your job?

FYI: Do this or you will be fired is coercion on its face. They worked all last year on Covid patients.

Have you missed all the lawsuits? Hospital Employees Sue Over COVID-19 Vaccine Mandate

Workers sue hospital after being ordered to get vaccinated

Workers at St. Elizabeth in Northern Kentucky sue over vaccine mandate

You guys keep using the untested as if it's some kind of winning argument, and as a nurse/doctor your job is to protect and help patients, not yourself.

 

[Mayzoo]

What the heck does choosing the medical field have to do with being forced to take to a brand new, never before used technology injected into you in order to keep your job?

FYI: Do this or you will be fired is coercion on its face. They worked all last year on Covid patients.

Have you missed all the lawsuits? Hospital Employees Sue Over COVID-19 Vaccine Mandate

Workers sue hospital after being ordered to get vaccinated

Workers at St. Elizabeth in Northern Kentucky sue over vaccine mandate

No, I have not missed the lawsuits.

I also did not miss the vaccine mandates in my job description/contract when I accepted the job I had in a hospital. It was not hidden or vague in any way. I saw it and agreed to it, as did a high percentage of people who now work in healthcare.

So, you believe the employment agreement can be altered after agreed to without ramifications. What do you believe the employer should be able to alter on a whim? Wages, vacation hours, sick leave, or how much they contribute to the employee's insurance? Any of those okay for the employer to just alter whenever they perceive a need?

ETA Granted, Covid was an unforeseen event. The employees who agreed to vaccine mandates prior to it, but do not want to adhere to what they agreed to now should have been looking for other employment for the last 9 months knowing this was coming. They knew they agreed to the mandate and they knew approval for the vaccine was coming soon. Covid was unforeseen in the beginning, but we have had time to make adjustments and I hope they have used these last 9 months wisely.

 

[ThisIsMe123]

What the heck does choosing the medical field have to do with being forced to take to a brand new, never before used technology injected into you in order to keep your job?

It's FDA approved, so...all of what you said is moot, and those that said they wouldn't get it unless it's FDA approved, are now saying what you're saying.

 

[Mayzoo]

What the heck does choosing the medical field have to do with being forced to take to a brand new, never before used technology injected into you in order to keep your job?

FYI: Do this or you will be fired is coercion on its face. They worked all last year on Covid patients.

Have you missed all the lawsuits? Hospital Employees Sue Over COVID-19 Vaccine Mandate

Workers sue hospital after being ordered to get vaccinated

Workers at St. Elizabeth in Northern Kentucky sue over vaccine mandate

Oh, btw, asking an employee to honor their contract or agreed-upon job description or face termination is not coercion.

If it is, then I should be able to work whatever hours I want and take off whatever amount of time I want without ramifications. To state you are going to fire me because I did not come into work for 2 straight weeks or left early 6 of the last 10 workdays is coercive behavior. Or can I just pick and choose what tasks on my job description I feel like tending to and dismiss the rest?

I should be able to work whenever I want, not work whenever I want, and only do what work tasks I want without fear or threats of being fired, right?

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

I want to know who is coercing these people to get jobs in the medical field to begin with? My mother was an RN, but no one forced her to go to school or to accept a position in a hospital. I worked in hospitals and medical facilities, but no one coerced me or even approached in a coercive manner to work in those fields or facilities. I know a lot of people in the medical field and not a single was coerced into it.

Do you have any articles backing up your theory/accusation that people are being coerced into the medical field or coerced into working in (or staying in) hospitals, dr offices, or anywhere that required vaccines as a condition of their employ? I have definitely missed those articles in all this mess we find ourselves in.

Nonresponsive. Nurses functioned perfectly well in Covid units in 2020, wearing PPE - and indeed were heroes.

These same nurses are being forced out of their jobs today because some do not wish to take the brand new technology injection for a variety of reasons. They aren't different people. If they could do the job last year with PPE, they can do the job this year with PPE, and indeed, many if not most have surely been exposed already (and we know lots of nurses already had it).

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

You guys keep using the untested as if it's some kind of winning argument, and as a nurse/doctor your job is to protect and help patients, not yourself.

You are making an erroneous assumption here that there are no long term effects, when in reality, no one knows. We already know that the injection does not prevent the spread of the virus if one is infected, so there is no protection there.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

No, I have not missed the lawsuits.

I also did not miss the vaccine mandates in my job description/contract when I accepted the job I had in a hospital. It was not hidden or vague in any way. I saw it and agreed to it, as did a high percentage of people who now work in healthcare.

So, you believe the employment agreement can be altered after agreed to without ramifications. What do you believe the employer should be able to alter on a whim? Wages, vacation hours, sick leave, or how much they contribute to the employee's insurance? Any of those okay for the employer to just alter whenever they perceive a need?

ETA Granted, Covid was an unforeseen event. The employees who agreed to vaccine mandates prior to it, but do not want to adhere to what they agreed to now should have been looking for other employment for the last 9 months knowing this was coming. They knew they agreed to the mandate and they knew approval for the vaccine was coming soon. Covid was unforeseen in the beginning, but we have had time to make adjustments and I hope they have used these last 9 months wisely.

I think there is some confusion here. NO, under no circumstances can brand new, never before used in human technology be required retroactively to some contract signed. You must be under the impression that I am arguing that this is fine. It's not, and no, of course the agreement cannot be retroactive to insert anything you want in there.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

It's FDA approved, so...all of what you said is moot, and those that said they wouldn't get it unless it's FDA approved, are now saying what you're saying.

Thalidomide was FDA approved. Vioxx was FDA approved.

That means nothing. 20 years with no side effects? Let's hear about it then.

 

[KCfromNC]

Nonresponsive. Nurses functioned perfectly well in Covid units in 2020, wearing PPE - and indeed were heroes.

Depends on what you mean by perfectly well, I guess. COVID-19 Risks and Impacts Among Health Care Workers by Race/Ethnicity

Health care workers face potential COVID-19 exposure through their job. Data suggest that at least 200,000 health care workers have been infected with coronavirus as of November 2020, but this estimate likely vastly underestimates the number affected due to major gaps in data collection.​

 

[KCfromNC]

You are making an erroneous assumption here that there are no long term effects, when in reality, no one knows.

No one knows if there are long term undiscovered side effects from anything, including posting on the internet. Better stay away from that to be sure ... only then, we also don't know if there are long term undiscovered side effects from not posting on the internet. Oh no! What to do from those super scary unknown long term maybe side effects.

Maybe basing decisions on unknown hypothetical isn't the best way to go about making those decisions.

 

[KCfromNC]

Thalidomide was FDA approved.

Vaccine testing falsely equated with thalidomide development decades ago

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Nonresponsive. Nurses functioned perfectly well in Covid units in 2020, wearing PPE - and indeed were heroes.

These same nurses are being forced out of their jobs today because some do not wish to take the brand new technology injection for a variety of reasons. They aren't different people. If they could do the job last year with PPE, they can do the job this year with PPE, and indeed, many if not most have surely been exposed already (and we know lots of nurses already had it).

To clarify, it's not "brand new technology", I went into it (at length) in another post, but mRNA technology and vector viral technology aren't "brand new" by any stretch.


But to the main meat of the matter, the reason they did it last year is because they had to...because a vaccine wasn't available.

Saying "just because someone was able to pull it off before better measures were available, that means they should be able to reject the better safety measures now that they are available" is the wrong way to approach things, especially in the field of medicine.

That'd be like saying "The doctors and nurses in 1980 were able to treat their diabetic and cardiovascular patients without ACE inhibitors, so why should they be expected to use them in 1981?"


And, as I've stated before, "Nurse" is a job title that encases a wide disparity in terms of knowledge, education, and training on various subjects.

There's a big difference between an NP and a CNA or LPN.

While CNAs and LPNs serve an important function, in a tough job that most people wouldn't/couldn't do (which they should be commended for), they simply don't have the kind of training or expertise for their objections to the vaccine to be taken seriously.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

To clarify, it's not "brand new technology", I went into it (at length) in another post, but mRNA technology and vector viral technology aren't "brand new" by any stretch.


But to the main meat of the matter, the reason they did it last year is because they had to...because a vaccine wasn't available.

Saying "just because someone was able to pull it off before better measures were available, that means they should be able to reject the better safety measures now that they are available" is the wrong way to approach things, especially in the field of medicine.

But they aren't better. The vaccinated AND the unvaccinated can both spread the virus, and either can be asymptomatic.

 

[Mayzoo]

I think there is some confusion here. NO, under no circumstances can brand new, never before used in human technology be required retroactively to some contract signed. You must be under the impression that I am arguing that this is fine. It's not, and no, of course the agreement cannot be retroactive to insert anything you want in there.

They need not "insert" anything if most of the contracts now are like mine was. I agreed to stay current on all required adult vaccines. They were not all listed out individually. For most healthcare workers, this will be a required adult vaccine--if not now, eventually. Were I still in the hospital, I would be required to get this vaccine per my contract.

If I were still in the hospital and I was opposed to this vaccine, I would have been seeking other employment these last 9 months knowing I will not violate my obligations/contract. I personally would not even wait to be fired, even if I could not find other employment. I would quit (with proper notice) as being fired for non-compliance to your contract/job description is a black mark that can be hard to overcome in a career.

I hope those opposed to this vaccine have been maximizing their opportunities for employment and I hope they find/have already found employment that meets their needs and they can enjoy.

 

[ThisIsMe123]

But they aren't better. The vaccinated AND the unvaccinated can both spread the virus, and either can be asymptomatic.

You know, you just keep repeating this over and over as if there's a reason for it.

So are you suggesting that since both unvaccinated and vaccinated spread it, that we should take no pre-cautions whatsoever?

 

[ThatRobGuy]

But they aren't better. The vaccinated AND the unvaccinated can both spread the virus, and either can be asymptomatic.

They can both spread it, if infected, but both are not equally as likely to be infected.

That's like saying that two people (one driving with their headlights on, and the other with them off) are equally likely to be injured if they hit a deer going 65mph, but one is far less likely to hit the deer in the first place.

 

[loveofourlord]

You are making an erroneous assumption here that there are no long term effects, when in reality, no one knows. We already know that the injection does not prevent the spread of the virus if one is infected, so there is no protection there.

You keep saying that as if it's not been redevelopment for over a decade, your talking points are getting old and sound more like excuses then actual points.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

You keep saying that as if it's not been redevelopment for over a decade, your talking points are getting old and sound more like excuses then actual points.

It has never been used on humans successfully. Look at the literature. That is being done now. Obviously, we have no idea of any long term effects.

If you can't understand that, that's too bad.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

They can both spread it, if infected, but both are not equally as likely to be infected.

That's like saying that two people (one driving with their headlights on, and the other with them off) are equally likely to be injured if they hit a deer going 65mph, but one is far less likely to hit the deer in the first place.

That isn't true. We had millions of asymptomatic cases before the vaccine existed. We knew this when we began testing people who were perfectly well who tested positive. No one is talking about immunity, which obviously exists.

It's merely a bald assertion that the vaccine is protecting anyone. Ridiculously, a headline a couple weeks ago said someone died in ICU but doctors said it "would have been much worse if he had not been vaccinated". How much worse can one get than dying in a hospital? That's ludicrous.

Look at all the breakthrough cases; the hospitalizations are rising daily.