Florida (Tampa) hospitals won't mandate vaccine for workers

[Hank77]

And vaccinated spread Covid at a much lower rate than unvaccinated since they are less likely to catch the virus, and they carry a lower viral load when they do catch it.

True. The vaccinated are much less likely to catch.

 

[ThisIsMe123]

Are the masks they use helpful either?

I'll leave this here...

Surgical masks reduce COVID-19 spread, large-scale study shows

 

[Taodeching]

I'm sorry that your education system failed you.

It fails quite a bit here through many factors

 

[anna ~ grace]

Wrong, if you're in the healthcare industry, it should be expected...especially if you're working around other patients. This is a disaster in the making. They should be setting the example.

Otherwise, you have no business being in healthcare.

Actually, as front-line workers with very specific skills and training, who have been exposing themselves daily to this virus to save lives, treat people, and care for the sick, they should absolutely have a say in whether or not they get this vaccine. Absolutely.

 

[Taodeching]

Actually, as front-line workers with very specific skills and training, who have been exposing themselves daily to this virus to save lives, treat people, and care for the sick, they should absolutely have a say in whether or not they get this vaccine. Absolutely.

Then they can find a job elsewhere if they don't want the life saving vaccine

 

[anna ~ grace]

Then they can find a job elsewhere if they don't want the life saving vaccine

It is not universally life-saving. For a very small number of people, it has been life-ending. Or crippling. Not for most, but for some. Please. Pushing this vaccine as “life saving” as a blanket label is just as damaging as describing it as “poison” or “evil”.

For most people, it will have a neutral to positive effect. For some people, it will actually make them quite ill, and they may have been better off just catching and dealing with covid. For a small minority, it will unexpectedly and tragically end their lives. This is not a black and white question, and people should still be given the freedom to choose whether or not to take this. If you take away our freedom to choose medicine, as Chevy said, you can take away every other freedom, too.

 

[Taodeching]

It is not universally life-saving. For a very small number of people, it has been life-ending. Or crippling. Not for most, but for some. Please. Pushing this vaccine as “life saving” as a blanket label is just as damaging as describing it as “poison” or “evil”.

For most people, it will have a neutral to positive effect. For some people, it will actually make them quite ill, and they may have been better off just catching and dealing with covid. For a small minority, it will unexpectedly and tragically end their lives. This is not a black and white question, and people should still be given the freedom to choose whether or not to take this. If you take away our freedom to choose medicine, as Chevy said, you can take away every other freedom, too.

That is the problem in America, individual rights trump everything even Christianity. There is no more caring about my neighbor it's all about the me in this society. No one had died from the vaccine and those that have a reaction are very small in number. Those who are anti vaxxers are no better then enemy combats.

You all talk about freedom yet don't want to extend that freedom to employers. Well let me tell you all employers have a right to mandate something and i people don't like it then they can find a new job.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I suppose it was regional and hospital specific to some degree back then. I am not sure when it started.

First time I worked in a hospital was in 1991 I was required to have all the "normal" adult vaccines, a flu shot every year and a tb test yearly. At that time, I was not in direct patient care. Typically not even in patient rooms at that time, just on the floors, er and all nursing stations.

I was heavily patient -facing in the 90's, so it may have just been your hospital.

We were required to get TB tested, but the fact American born individuals who went to school here all their life already had their childhood immunizations was probably a given - they may have asked if i had them and I simply have forgotten, but i did have all my childhood vaccines. I didn't have to go hunting down those records however, as I would have remembered that.

Other than that I do know I was current on things like my tetanus shots, so I wouldn't have known whether that was mandated.

The optional things I know of were the hepatitis vaccine series and the annual flu shots. So yeah, perhaps different hospital groups had different policies.

 

[ThisIsMe123]

It is not universally life-saving. For a very small number of people, it has been life-ending. Or crippling.

Yeah, it's a small number of people...out of millions. Not sure why a few outliers is an excuse not to get the vaccine. You're just looking for a reason. I mean, I think the chances of a plane crashing are around that much.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Yeah, it's a small number of people...out of millions. Not sure why a few outliers is an excuse not to get the vaccine. You're just looking for a reason. I mean, I think the chances of a plane crashing are around that much.

I don't think we know what the actual numbers are. Vaccine deaths can only be counted as vaccine deaths if the deaths occur within 24 hours of receiving the vaccine, and while this vaccine is given in a series if you contract COVID and die from it, if its within 2 weeks of even the second shot your listed as an "unvaccinated COVID death"

So when we are playing fun with numbers on vaccine related deaths and COVID related deaths in relation to whether an individual's vaccine counts as being vaccinated or not in reporting, I don't think the statistics we are being told can be trusted...

I mean, how many people had to die of covid after getting either their first or even second covid shot for the authorities to decide these vaccinated people can no longer be counted as vaccinated individuals anyway?

Probably a lot.. but we'll never know, because they aren't planning on telling us. When they politicize a vaccine, and then hide real information that may end up being vital, I'm not sure how anyone can have faith in it.

Had it never been a political tool, we wouldn't have this issue, but as it is, the CDC and government has eroded public faith in medicine, particularly where concerns this vaccine.

 

[Mayzoo]

Actually, as front-line workers with very specific skills and training, who have been exposing themselves daily to this virus to save lives, treat people, and care for the sick, they should absolutely have a say in whether or not they get this vaccine. Absolutely.

At this point in time, they absolutely should have a say in if they receive vaccines or not. If required vaccines are part of their employment contract, and no one forced them to accept the job, then they had a say. They said yes when they accepted the job.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Are you saying the vaccinated don't carry the virus asymptomatic?

They can, but the overall infection rate among vaccinated is still lower than that of unvaccinated. Fewer infections = Less spread capabilities.


The analogy I've been using lately is that of groups of people driving with and without headlights.

Both groups are still susceptible to "getting into accidents" in the general sense as there's no such thing as a perfect driver, and when those accidents do occur, both are equally like to take damage themselves and potentially cause externalities.

But, the "damage to themselves" and "externalities to other people" are down-chain events from the accident occurring in the first place.

The group using their headlights are less likely to get into an accident in the first place.

Two people (one with headlights and one without) mitigates the risk a little bit because it provides a some extra visibility - even if you have yours turned off, I can still see a little bit, and you're afforded the protection of being able to see me.

Two people both using headlights exponentially reduces the chances of an accident since both can clearly see each other.

Two people both not using their headlights is an accident waiting to happen.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

So you're acknowledging you have no knowledge as to whether they're not highly qualified or not. They could be which makes your attempt to marginalize them not based on any facts.

Actually, I did provide stats on that in my post. Practicing physicians have a vaccination rate of over 96% (and in the remaining 4%, nearly half of that group says they plan to).

So by the most generous estimates, only 2% of people that a state recognizes as "doctors" are refusing.

And given that many states recognize DC's, Homeopaths, and ND's as "Doctors" (when they really shouldn't), that 2% hold-out rate makes sense.

Among the other "thousands", it's safe to assume they're in the "lesser skilled" aspect of the medical field.

In addition to the AMA source (which is where I got the 96% number for actual physicians), a Forbes article reiterates that point.

Covid-19 Vaccination Rates Are Poor Among Healthcare Workers - How Can We Do Better?
The rate of vaccination is pretty much inverse of the education level of staff. Among practicing physicians, 96% have been vaccinated.* The rate drops to <50% among Nurses and even more among aides.

This link also reiterates that notion.
Disparities in COVID-19 Vaccination Coverage Among Health Care ...

The vaccination rate is 96% among practicing physicians
The vaccination rate is 75.1% among NPs (Nurse Practitioners/Advanced Practiced Providers)
The vaccination rate is 56% among RNs and LPNs (would've liked to see a breakdown on that one, because I bet the the rate among RNs is higher than that of LPNs)
The vaccination rate is 45% among Nursing Aides (CNAs)


Again, not trying to disparage LPNs and CNAs here...they do an important job, and one that I wouldn't want to do, but they're not immunology experts and they don't have the same training on these types of subjects.

Starting an IV, changing a catheter, stitching up minor wounds, keeping pressure on the wound, accurately administering meds that a doctor prescribed... all important jobs. I couldn't do it...but that doesn't make their opinions on immunology uniquely valid in any way.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Well, they've seen what the Florida government is willing to do to its own schools...

 

[Pommer]

Well, they've seen what the Florida government is willing to do to its own schools...

After Parkland, was there really any question that ideology would trump the general welfare of students?

 

[keith99]

I don't think we know what the actual numbers are. Vaccine deaths can only be counted as vaccine deaths if the deaths occur within 24 hours of receiving the vaccine, and while this vaccine is given in a series if you contract COVID and die from it, if its within 2 weeks of even the second shot your listed as an "unvaccinated COVID death"

So when we are playing fun with numbers on vaccine related deaths and COVID related deaths in relation to whether an individual's vaccine counts as being vaccinated or not in reporting, I don't think the statistics we are being told can be trusted...

I mean, how many people had to die of covid after getting either their first or even second covid shot for the authorities to decide these vaccinated people can no longer be counted as vaccinated individuals anyway?

Probably a lot.. but we'll never know, because they aren't planning on telling us. When they politicize a vaccine, and then hide real information that may end up being vital, I'm not sure how anyone can have faith in it.

Had it never been a political tool, we wouldn't have this issue, but as it is, the CDC and government has eroded public faith in medicine, particularly where concerns this vaccine.

Source? I know many here on CF use a counting method that is quite the opposite.

 

[ThisIsMe123]

At this point in time, they absolutely should have a say in if they receive vaccines or not. If required vaccines are part of their employment contract, and no one forced them to accept the job, then they had a say. They said yes when they accepted the job.

True, they do have a choice....but its either that or be fired. I think people here know that.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Source? I know many here on CF use a counting method that is quite the opposite.

Your free to use Google...

 

[KCfromNC]

Ironically Mary Mallon did not believe in washing her hands.

That's what freedom looks like, right?

 

[KCfromNC]

Actually, as front-line workers with very specific skills and training, who have been exposing themselves daily to this virus to save lives, treat people, and care for the sick, they should absolutely have a say in whether or not they get this vaccine. Absolutely.

Of course they do. And then their employer has a say in whether or not to keep employing them if they decide not to. Absolutely.