Flight of Christians from Mid-East Reaches Syria, What can you and I do?????

Lukaris

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What happened in the Balkans in the 1990s can be called nothing but genocide. Indeed, there is a case to be made that the current generation of Islamic terrorists were inspired partly by the genocide to take up arms, as they felt that Muslims were being oppressed by a Christian-Jewish conspiracy. Even today, many Muslims believe there's a Christian-Jewish-Hindu-Buddhist conspiracy to destroy Islam and kill Muslims.


The thing is what the Serbs did was done to them on the same scale previously. None of this is justifiable but some get demonized while others seem to go undetected. see: The Albanian Muslim Battalion in the Handzar Nazi SS Division: Kosovo Albanian Muslims in the Nazi SS in Повесница • History Forum
 
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Supreme

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The thing is what the Serbs did was done to them on the same scale previously. None of this is justifiable but some get demonized while others seem to go undetected. see: The Albanian Muslim Battalion in the Handzar Nazi SS Division: Kosovo Albanian Muslims in the Nazi SS in Повесница • History Forum

I absolutely accept that horrific crimes were committed against Serbs prior to the 1990s war. But that doesn't justify their horrific response.
 
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Zoness

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Sorry, I'm a late-comer to the thread.

After teaching English in Quito, Ecuador for over a year I returned home to Nova Scotia determined to become more socially and politically active.

I have the feeling that there must be something constructive and specific that socially and politically active Christians and Muslims aught to be able to be able to do at this time that can improve as well as even save some lives over the coming weeks, months and years?????!!!!



Flight of Christians from Mid-East Reaches Syria :: Gatestone Institute

Lots of people are dying in the Syrian conflicts right now. Christians are targeted right now, just as much as many other minority groups. I fear for the Syrian future and I think we are at risk of seeing another fundamentalist Islamist government take control but by no means are Christians the only one dying in Syria.

The problem is the philosophy of intervention, though. The US is tired of war for once so we REALLY don't want to go but it looks like nobody else is going to intervene. Then of course is the question, is it actually right to intervene?

It's complicated.
 
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smaneck

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The thing is what the Serbs did was done to them on the same scale previously. None of this is justifiable but some get demonized while others seem to go undetected. see: The Albanian Muslim Battalion in the Handzar Nazi SS Division: Kosovo Albanian Muslims in the Nazi SS in Повесница • History Forum

I'm not sure I see the documentation in that article that there was the same level of violence against the Serbs as the Bosnians will suffer in the 1990's.
It is true, however, that Muslims in general tended to support the Germans during both world wars. The reason? Germans did not have the same legacy of imperialism in the Middle East as did the French, the British and the Russians. Christians often got themselves in trouble by supporting the Russians who rather quickly moved into their areas. When the Russians withdrew those Christians were often treated as traitors. This happens not just to the Armenians in the Ottoman Empire, but to the Nestorians in Iran as well.
 
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DennisTate

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I'm not sure I see the documentation in that article that there was the same level of violence against the Serbs as the Bosnians will suffer in the 1990's.
It is true, however, that Muslims in general tended to support the Germans during both world wars. The reason? Germans did not have the same legacy of imperialism in the Middle East as did the French, the British and the Russians. Christians often got themselves in trouble by supporting the Russians who rather quickly moved into their areas. When the Russians withdrew those Christians were often treated as traitors. This happens not just to the Armenians in the Ottoman Empire, but to the Nestorians in Iran as well.

A truly interesting analysis smaneck!!!!!
 
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Zoness

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Apparently they are being targeted by foreign jihadist, not the Syrians themselves.

Judging by what I have been following on the news, it sounds like more and more of the rebel forces are being reinforced by foreign Jihadist organizations. At any rate, it sounds like they are starting to become one in the same which isn't good for anyone wanting a free Syrian state.
 
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smaneck

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A truly interesting analysis smaneck!!!!!

The same thing happens to Christians in the Middle as a result of the Crusades, by the way. Their treatment was pretty fair prior to the Crusades but declines sharply in its afternath. The opposite happens to the Jewish community. In towns like Edessa where the majority of inhabitants were Christian, Jews were given homes right next to the city gates knowing that if Crusaders showed up they would be the first to let the Muslims know.
 
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smaneck

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Judging by what I have been following on the news, it sounds like more and more of the rebel forces are being reinforced by foreign Jihadist organizations. At any rate, it sounds like they are starting to become one in the same which isn't good for anyone wanting a free Syrian state.

I don't know that they are one and the same but it is becoming increasingly difficult to sort them out, which is why the US has been reluctant to give aid in the first place. Part of the problem is that Christians in both Iraq and Syria have been active members of the Baath Party. In fact the Baath Party was founded by an Arab Christian.
 
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Zoness

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I don't know that they are one and the same but it is becoming increasingly difficult to sort them out, which is why the US has been reluctant to give aid in the first place. Part of the problem is that Christians in both Iraq and Syria have been active members of the Baath Party. In fact the Baath Party was founded by an Arab Christian.

Personally I am against US intervention. Not that it makes the crisis any less important but I feel we already play too much of world police. Besides, like you said, we are having a hard time sorting them out. When the conflict began it was much more clear however the conflict is now moving into a deadly attrition phase where someone has to give eventually.

It's fascinating to watch it unfold though, I sure hope a resolution comes so there is opportunity to practice any religion or none in Syria someday.
 
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DennisTate

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Personally I am against US intervention. Not that it makes the crisis any less important but I feel we already play too much of world police. Besides, like you said, we are having a hard time sorting them out. When the conflict began it was much more clear however the conflict is now moving into a deadly attrition phase where someone has to give eventually.

It's fascinating to watch it unfold though, I sure hope a resolution comes so there is opportunity to practice any religion or none in Syria someday.

Up here in Canada we are in need of immigrants to boost our economy in order to pay for the social safety net that we have set up for our aging population.

I WOULD LOVE TO SEE CANADA GET DIRECTLY INVOLVED IN GETTING BAHAI'S AND JEWS AND CHRISTIANS AND ISLAMIC MYSTICS OVER HERE TO CANADA. Peoples whose lives are in danger.........once they get to the new land.......they tend to make fantastic citizens!!!!!!!!!
 
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Zoness

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Up here in Canada we are in need of immigrants to boost our economy in order to pay for the social safety net that we have set up for our aging population.

I WOULD LOVE TO SEE CANADA GET DIRECTLY INVOLVED IN GETTING BAHAI'S AND JEWS AND CHRISTIANS AND ISLAMIC MYSTICS OVER HERE TO CANADA. Peoples whose lives are in danger.........once they get to the new land.......they tend to make fantastic citizens!!!!!!!!!

All the power to you if you are able to make them productive citizens. I'm sure they are willing to work but I am skeptical of such things in the US. We are still in a full economic downturn made worse for those without skills. Bringing in unskilled refugees will damage the already stressed system further and that would not only hurt US natives but also refugees as they risk becoming disenfranchised and ghettoized.

Still, if anyone has the resources for it...its Canada! I like Canada lol. Really though, given your current government I doubt you'll see such a thing happen.
 
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DennisTate

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All the power to you if you are able to make them productive citizens. I'm sure they are willing to work but I am skeptical of such things in the US. We are still in a full economic downturn made worse for those without skills. Bringing in unskilled refugees will damage the already stressed system further and that would not only hurt US natives but also refugees as they risk becoming disenfranchised and ghettoized.

Still, if anyone has the resources for it...its Canada! I like Canada lol. Really though, given your current government I doubt you'll see such a thing happen.


I am of the belief that a significant part of our economic problems are a terrible lack of understanding of monetary policy and specifically how combined interest over time causes us to look like we are bankrupt..........when in reality this is planned deliberately in order to slow down the economy so that we don't go into a period of extreme over consumption?????!!!!



I got into this in each of my three campaigns for public office!

.bankingsystemsflaws.blogspot.ca/


You would be astonished how many of our political leaders do not understand the tremendous benefits of historical Canadian monetary policy.

Appendix B — The Bank of Canada Must Finance our Country, Debt-Free, Say Three Economists

"Why was a much larger national debt shrugged off in 1945, while today's much smaller debt (as a percentage of GDP) is being used as an excuse to let the economy stagnate?"

"The answer can be found at the Bank of Canada. During the war, and for 30 years afterward, the government could borrow what it needed at low rates of interest, because the government's own bank produced up to half of all the new money. That forced the private banks to keep their interest rates low, too.

"Since the mid-1970s, however, the Bank of Canada, with government consent, has been creating less and less of the new money, while letting the private banks create more and more. Today «our» bank creates a mere 2% of each year's new money supply, while allowing the private banks to gouge the government — and of course you and me, as well — with outrageously high interest rates. And it is these extortionate interest charges that are the principal cause of the rapid escalation of the national debt. If the federal government were paying interest at the average levels that prevailed from the 1930s to the mid-1970s, it would now be running an operating surplus of about $13 billion!"

..... "Clearly the current problem of the Canadian government's deficit is not its absolute size, or its size relative to the GDP, but the insane way it is being financed. A return to the policies of the World War II era, when the Bank of Canada produced almost one-half of the new money at near-zero interest, would do wonders for the economy, while greatly shrinking the deficit... The first order of business for a post-Mulroney- era government must be to regain effective control of the Bank of Canada and make it the primary source of money creation.

"It is ludicrous for the government to put billions of dollars into circulation by borrowing from the private banks, when it can create the extra money it needs, virtually free. "(by Harold Chorney, John Hotson, and Mario Seccareccia)
.
 
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DennisTate

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This article is well worth reading to better understand why the USA economy is in such trouble right now!!!!


America Created It's Own Money In 1750 How Benjamin Franklin Made New England Prosperous
America Created It's
Own Money In 1750
How Benjamin Franklin Made
New England Prosperous

By Congressman Charles G. Binderup
Copyright © 1941

This article of how the conflict played out during the Civil War....as well as in the time of President John F. Kennedy is worthy of consideration......although yes.......a powerful counter argument can be presented????!!!


Abraham Lincoln and John F. Kennedy
In 1972, the United States Treasury Department was asked to compute the amount of interest that would have been paid if that 400 million dollars would have been borrowed at interest instead of being issued by Abraham Lincoln. They did some computations, and a few weeks later, the United States Treasury Department said the United States Government saved 4 billion dollars in interest because Lincoln had created his own money. So you can about imagine how much the Government has paid and how much we owe solely on the basis of interest.
 
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smaneck

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Up here in Canada we are in need of immigrants to boost our economy in order to pay for the social safety net that we have set up for our aging population.

The US hasn't quite figured out that this is the only thing that will save our Social Security over the long run.

I WOULD LOVE TO SEE CANADA GET DIRECTLY INVOLVED IN GETTING BAHAI'S AND JEWS AND CHRISTIANS AND ISLAMIC MYSTICS OVER HERE TO CANADA. Peoples whose lives are in danger.........once they get to the new land.......they tend to make fantastic citizens!!!!!!!!!

Canada has already been welcoming to Baha'i refugees, as has the US and Australia.
 
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smaneck

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All the power to you if you are able to make them productive citizens. I'm sure they are willing to work but I am skeptical of such things in the US. We are still in a full economic downturn made worse for those without skills. Bringing in unskilled refugees will damage the already stressed system further and that would not only hurt US natives but also refugees as they risk becoming disenfranchised and ghettoized.

I can't speak of refugees from other communities but Baha'i refugees are anything but unskilled. Even though Baha'is have been denied access to higher education in Iran since 1980, they prove to be excellent students once they are given access elsewhere. I took in a young refugee back then who came with only a high school education. Even though he had knew little English within six months he was making more money than my husband. The ones who don't seek degrees in higher education usually end up starting their own businesses.
 
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Zoness

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I can't speak of refugees from other communities but Baha'i refugees are anything but unskilled. Even though Baha'is have been denied access to higher education in Iran since 1980, they prove to be excellent students once they are given access elsewhere. I took in a young refugee back then who came with only a high school education. Even though he had knew little English within six months he was making more money than my husband. The ones who don't seek degrees in higher education usually end up starting their own businesses.

Of course there are definitely skilled laborers among the bunch and those with higher education but if one considers the general state of the Syrian population at large and condenses those conditions to what is approaching one million refugees, then proportionally unskilled workers will blow the others out of the water. Not that they don't all deserve work its just even harder to fill those positions, at least in the US.

That said, if I had the opportunity to take in a refugee who is about my age I would totally do it in a heartbeat. The downside is of course I have a small living space and the government would probably spy on me (as I imagine they do now being in InfoSec) plus such refugees would have a hard time entering the US in the first place. It's good to at least offer people a second chance especially when they are in such dire straits.
 
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M

Mikeb85

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It is not the number of casualties which make something a genocide, it is the way in which such killings occur and the intention of those killings. I think it is quite possible that what is happening in Syria will end in genocide but probably not against the Christian community.

You must not know very many Sunnis/Wahhabis then. Their goal is to restore the Caliphate, and kill anyone who doesn't follow their sect (especially Shias). If their goals aren't genocidal I don't know what are.

In Iraq thousands of Muslims are killed every month in Sunni/Shia violence. Just today 14 Shia men were executed at a roadblock in Iraq.

As much as I can't stand Assad the Alawite community will likely be massacred if he is thrown out of power without a negotiated solution.

Of course they will be, this is not in doubt.
 
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smaneck

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We are still in a full economic downturn made worse for those without skills. Bringing in unskilled refugees will damage the already stressed system further and that would not only hurt US natives but also refugees as they risk becoming disenfranchised and ghettoized.

Immigrants, even the illegal ones, are rarely unskilled. I once worked in a frozen food packing plant and no way could I keep up with those Mexican ladies! During the recession a lot of illegal construction workers went home. There was lots of construction work in South America at the time due to a mining boom in places like Peru. But we cannot get agricultural workers to do what these migrants do. The United Farm Workers started a website called "Take my job" where they promised a job to any American in agricultural labor who asked for one. They couldn't promise you would be able to keep it however. Most Americans simply can't do this kind of work.
 
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