Flat Earth And Christianity

Is it?

  • Yes

    Votes: 8 12.1%
  • No

    Votes: 58 87.9%

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The.Cartographer

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I think it's flat and I don't understand why Christianity doesn't hold that belief as well.
I think it'd be what Christianity would be all about and the idea that it is flat does make sense if you look at the evidence and makes us special and belonging to and taken care of by God. I've found that the idea is immediately attacked and dismissed and there's plenty of smear videos that don't really address the topics that those whom have done extensive research upon the matter have discovered; it's merely if you believe it's flat, you're an idiot; which I think is quite out of line, especially for Christians.
 

Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

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I think it's flat and I don't understand why Christianity doesn't hold that belief as well.
I think it'd be what Christianity would be all about and the idea that it is flat does make sense if you look at the evidence and makes us special and belonging to and taken care of by God. I've found that the idea is immediately attacked and dismissed and there's plenty of smear videos that don't really address the topics that those whom have done extensive research upon the matter have discovered; it's merely if you believe it's flat, you're an idiot; which I think is quite out of line, especially for Christians.

Check out this thread OP :

Geocentric Early Church Father Quotes (Long Read)

I also ascribe to a Geocentric Cosmology.


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Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

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• Ambrose: Worthy surely was he to stand forth as a man who might stay the course of the river, and who might say: “Sun, stand still,” and delay the night and lengthen the day, as though to witness his victory. Why? a blessing denied to Moses–he alone was chosen to lead the people into the promised land. A man he was, great in the wonders he wrought by faith, great in his triumphs. The works of Moses were of a higher type, his brought greater success. Either of these then aided by divine grace rose above all human standing. The one ruled the sea, the other heaven. (Duties of the Clergy, Bk II, Ch XX, 99)


• Ambrose: But they say that the sun can be said to be alone, because there is no second sun. But the sun himself has many things in common with the stars, for he travels across the heavens, he is of that ethereal and heavenly substance, he is a creature, and is reckoned amongst all the works of God. He serves God in union with all, blesses Him with all, praises Him with all. Therefore he cannot accurately be said to be alone, for he is not set apart from the rest.(Exposition of the Christian Faith, Bk V, Ch II)


• Aphrahat: For the sun in twelve hours circles round, from the east unto the west; and when he has accomplished his course, his light is hidden in the night-time, and the night is not disturbed by his power. And in the hours of the night the sun turns round in his rapid course, and turning round begins to run in his accustomed path. (Demonstrations, 24).


• Athanasius: For who that sees the circle of heaven and The Course of The Sun and the moon, and the positions and movements of the other stars, as they take place in opposite and different directions, while yet in their difference all with one accord observe a consistent order, can resist the conclusion that these are not ordered by themselves, but have a maker distinct from themselves who orders them? or who that sees the sun rising by day and the moon shining by night, and waning and waxing without variation exactly according to the same number of days, and some of the stars running their courses and with orbits various and manifold, while others move without wandering, can fail to perceive that they certainly have a creator to guide them? (Against the Heathen, Bk 1, Part III, 35)


• Athenagoras: to Him is for us to know who stretched out and vaulted the heavens, and fixed the earth in its place like a center (Why the Christians do not Offer Sacrifices, Ch XIII)


• Augustine: For an eclipse of the sun had also happened; and this was attributed to the divine power of Romulus by the ignorant multitude, who did not know that it was brought about by the fixed laws of the sun’s course (City of God, Bk III, Ch 15)


• Augustine: This he said either of those things of which he had just been speaking–the succession of generations, the orbit of the sun, the course of rivers,–or else of all kinds of creatures. that are born and die. (City of God, Bk XII, Ch 13).


• Ephraim the Syrian: The sun in his course teaches thee that thou rest from labour. (On Admonition and Repentance)


• Eusebius: to whom he has permitted the contemplation of celestial objects, and revealed the course and changes of the sun and moon, and the periods of the planets and fixed stars. (Oration of Constantine, Ch VI).


• Gregory Thaumaturgos: And the life of men weareth away, as day by day, and in the periods of hours and years, and the determinate courses of the sun, (On Ecclesiastes, Ch 1, 2)


• Hippolytus: We find in the commentaries, written by our predecessors, that day had thirty-two hours. For when the sun had run its course, and reached the tenth hour, and the shadow had gone down by the ten degrees in the house of the temple, the sun turned back again by the ten degrees, according to the word of the Lord, and there were thus twenty hours. And again, the sun accomplished its own proper course, according to the common law, and reached its setting. And thus there were thirty-two hours. (Fragments, III, Discourse on Hezekiah).


Etc. Etc.


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Halbhh

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I think it's flat and I don't understand why Christianity doesn't hold that belief as well.
I think it'd be what Christianity would be all about and the idea that it is flat does make sense if you look at the evidence and makes us special and belonging to and taken care of by God. I've found that the idea is immediately attacked and dismissed and there's plenty of smear videos that don't really address the topics that those whom have done extensive research upon the matter have discovered; it's merely if you believe it's flat, you're an idiot; which I think is quite out of line, especially for Christians.

The scripture is a lot more clear when you read through full books, all the way through, not trying to see it a certain way ahead of time, but really listening, to get the real messages, and learn. Then it's a lot easier to hear the literal and the metaphor (truth put in metaphors at times) the way they are meant. that full reading. 100% of a book at at time, from beginning to end.

God protects and secures this home of ours, the Earth. He has made it stable and reliable. (we will not all die in a giant asteroid impact, nor will the Earth and sun drift off course relative to one another)

I won't vote in the above because in a way that's like arguing. But if you want to know what I get from reading fully through all of the books of the bible, every one, from beginning to end, it says nothing to say the size of the Earth, nor the distance to the moon, nor to the sun, nor the circumference of Earth, nor that the Earth is 'flat' all the way across -- none of these kinds of relatively less important things are addressed. Why not? Because they are actually in the end far less important than what is being addressed -- our relationship with God, and the fate of our souls, for eternity. But many metaphors are used to tell us truths we do need.
 
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Not David

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Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

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Some more Quotes :

• Augustine: Who else save Joshua the son of Nun divided the stream of the Jordan for the people to pass over, and by the utterance of a prayer to God bridled and Stopped The Revolving Sun? Who save Samson ever quenched his thirst with water flowing forth from the jawbone of a dead ass? Who save Elias was carried aloft in a chariot of fire? (Tractates, XCI, Ch XV, 24-25, 2).


• Augustine: I desire to know the power and nature of time, by which we measure the motions of bodies, and say (for example) that this motion is twice as long as that. For, I ask, since “day” declares not the stay only of the sun upon the earth, according to which day is one thing, night another, but also its entire circuit from east even to east, according to which we say, “So many days have passed” (the nights being included when we say “so many days,” and their spaces not counted apart), since, then, the day is finished by the motion of the sun, and by his circuit from east to east, I ask, whether the motion itself is the day, or the period in which that motion is completed, or both? For if the first be the day, then would there be a day although the sun should finish that course in so small a space of time as an hour. If the second, then that would not be a day if from one sunrise to another there were but so short a period as an hour, but the sun must go round four-and-twenty times to complete a day. If both, neither could that be called a day if the sun should run his entire round in the space of an hour; nor that, if, while the sun stood still, so much time should pass as the sun is accustomed to accomplish his whole course in from morning to morning. I shall not therefore now ask, what that is which is called day, but what time is, by which we, measuring the circuit of the sun, should say that it was accomplished in half the space of time it was wont, if it had been completed in so small a space as twelve hours; and comparing both times, we should call that single, this double time, although the sun should run his course from east to east sometimes in that single, sometimes in that double time. Let no man then tell me that the motions of the heavenly bodies are times, because, when at the prayer of one the sun stood still in order that he might achieve his victorious battle, the sun stood still, but time went on. For in such space of time as was sufficient was that battle fought and ended. I see that time, then, is a certain extension. But do I see it, or do I seem to see it? Thou, O Light and Truth, wilt show me. (Confessions, Bk XI, Ch XXIII, 30)


• Basil: There are inquirers into nature who with a great display of words give reasons for the immobility of the earth…It is not, they go on, without reason or by chance that the earth occupies the center of the universeDo not then be surprised that the world never falls: it occupies the center of the universe, its natural place. By necessity it is obliged to remain in its place, unless a movement contrary to nature should displace it. If there is anything in this system which might appear probable to you, keep your admiration for the source of such perfect order, for the wisdom of God. Grand phenomena do not strike us the less when we have discovered something of their wonderful mechanism. Is it otherwise here? At all events let us prefer the simplicity of faith to the demonstrations of reason. (Nine Homilies on the Hexameron, 10)


• Basil: If the sun, subject to corruption, is so beautiful, so grand. so rapid in its move-meat, so invariable in its course; if its grandeur is in such perfect harmony with and due proportion to the universe: if, by the beauty of its nature, it shines like a brilliant eye in the middle of creation; if finally, one cannot tire of contemplating it, what will be the beauty of the Sun of Righteousness? (Homilies, 6)


• Basil: In the midst of the covering and veil, where the priests were allowed to enter, was situated the altar of incense, The symbol of the earth placed in the middle of this universe; and from it came the fumes of incense. (The Mystic Meaning of the Tabernacle, Bk V, Ch VI; Clement of Rome, Stromata, Bk V)


• Chrysostom: And again, David saith of The Sun, that “he is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a giant to run his course.” Seest thou how he places before thee the beauty of this star, and its greatness? For even as a bridegroom when he appears from some stately chamber, so the sun sends forth his rays under the East; and adorning the heaven as it were with a saffron-colored veil, and making the clouds like roses, and running unimpeded all the day; He Meets No Obstacle To Interrupt His Course. Beholdest thou, then, his beauty? (Homilies to Antioch, Homily X)


• Chrysostom: For He not only made it, but provided also that when it was made, it should carry on its operations; not permitting it to be all immoveable, nor commanding it to be all in a state of motion. The heaven, for instance, hath remained immoveable, according as the prophet says, “He placed the heaven as a vault, and stretched it out as a tent over the earth.” But, on the other hand, The Sun with the rest of the stars, Runs On His Course through every day. And again, The Earth Is Fixed, but the waters are continually in motion; and not the waters only, but the clouds, and the frequent and successive showers, which return at their proper season. (Homilies to Antioch, Homily XII)


• Gregory Nanzianzus: The Sun is extolled by David for its beauty, its greatness, Its Swift Course, and its power, splendid as a bridegroom, majestic as a giant; while, from the extent of Its Circuit, it has such power that it equally sheds its light from one end of heaven to the other, and the heat thereof is in no wise lessened by distance. (Funeral Orations for St. Basil, 66).



Etc. Etc.


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pitabread

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it's merely if you believe it's flat, you're an idiot

Or a troll. It's really hard to know who among the flerfers are really serious given how dumb an idea it is.

Especially since the only way to really believe in a flat Earth seems to be to subscribe to an ever-escalating series of absurd conspiracy theories. Which unto itself is less about trying to find any objective "truth" and more about believing in conspiracies for the sake of believing in conspiracies.

Then there is the fact that someone people openly admit to trolling forums pretending to be flat Earther...

that those whom have done extensive research upon the matter have discovered

"Extensive research" my butt. Basic backyard astronomy disproves the notion of a flat Earth. I don't think any flerfer has even looked at the night sky.
 
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Bob Carabbio

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I think it's flat and I don't understand why Christianity doesn't hold that belief as well.

Ask any Airline pilot, or Ship's Captain, and they'll set you straight in a millisecond. And, of course, since '98 the International Space Station has been up there happily in orbit, and providing data - unless, of course, you don't believe there IS an "International Space Station", or that we've ever been to the Moon.
 
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Dave-W

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I think it's flat and I don't understand why Christianity doesn't hold that belief as well.
Because Christianity holds to the truth, not something else.

I have been a professional cartographer for over 20 years (and a map nerd before that) and there is no evidence for a flat earth at all.
 
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pitabread

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unless, of course, you don't believe there IS an "international Space STation",

Which is an incredibly silly notion given that the ISS is visible from Earth to anyone with a pair of working eyeballs.
 
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JackRT

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I am convinced that Biblical cosmology is certainly that of a flat earth in a three tiered universe. However with the advent of Christianity the Greek influence rapidly displaced the Jewish influence. By the middle of the second century the Ptolemaic cosmology of a spherical earth at the center of the universe prevailed in Christian thought.
 
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Dave-W

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"Extensive research" my butt.
"Extensive research" = spending years digging thru anything and everything to find a shred that can be blown out of proportion to support a ridiculous concept.
 
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JackRT

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Which is an incredibly silly notion given that the ISS is visible from Earth to anyone with a pair of working eyeballs.

Oh come on now! One eyeball is quite sufficient! :D
 
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Dave-W

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I am convinced that Biblical cosmology is certainly that of a flat earth in a three tiered universe. However with the advent of Christianity the Greek influence rapidly displaced the Jewish influence. By the middle of the second century the Ptolemaic cosmology of a spherical earth at the center of the universe prevailed in Christian thought.
where that all goes wrong is when you try to take the Bible as a science book instead of a theological one. It is about how God relates to mankind, NOT the details on how God created inanimate objects.

Relationships, not abstractions.
 
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Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

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OP Just remember that the world is Full Of Liars and occultists / sorcerers who are willing to join secret societies that sell their souls for money so they don't have any moral convictions about telling lies or deceiving people.

The Reality of Sorcerers, Witches and Magic from Bible Scriptures and Church Fathers

But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, Sorcerers, idolaters, AND ALL LIARS Shall Have Their Part In The Lake Which Burns With Fire And Brimstone, which is the second death."
Revelation 21:8



Evil eye - Wikipedia

• Prayer against demonic snares

Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, having struck down the ancient serpent and bound him in Tartarus by bonds of darkness, protect me from his snares. Through the prayers of our Most Holy Lady, the Theotokos and Ever-virgin Mary, of the holy Archangel Michael and all the Heavenly hosts, of the holy Prophet and Baptist John, of the holy Evangelist John the Theologian, of the holy Martyr Cyprian and the Martyr Justinia, of St. Nicholas the wonderworker, of St. Nikita of Novgorod, of St. John of Shanghai and San Francisco, the wonderworker … and of all the saints, by the power of the life-giving Cross and by the intercession of my Guardian Angel, deliver me from evil spirits, from cunning people, from sorcery, curses, The Evil Eye, and from any slanders of the enemy. By Thine almighty power preserve me from evil, so that I, enlightened by Thy light, may safely reach the quiet anchorage of the Heavenly Kingdom and there eternally thank Thee, my Savior, together with Thine unoriginate Father and Thy Most Holy and Life-giving Spirit. Amen.


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durangodawood

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...I have been a professional cartographer for over 20 years (and a map nerd before that) and there is no evidence for a flat earth at all.
Sure... and your livelihood depended on conforming to "round earth" doctrine.
 
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Dave-W

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Sure... and your livelihood depended on conforming to "round earth" doctrine.
not really. I am a mechanical engineer by degree; and spent 20 years as a tool and die design engineer. My lively hood is just fine without this job.
 
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pitabread

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OP Just remember that the world is Full Of Liars and occultists / sorcerers who are willing to join secret societies that sell their souls for money so they don't have any moral convictions about telling lies or deceiving people.

How incredibly paranoid do you have to be to believe that everyone promoting a particular idea is out to lie to you?
 
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durangodawood

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not really. I am a mechanical engineer by degree; and spent 20 years as a tool and die design engineer. My lively hood is just fine without this job.
So you voluntarily promoted "round earth" fables???
 
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