First steps for a protestant looking to convert to catholicism?

[East of Eden]

And then read ‘Catholicism and Fundamentalism: The Attack On “Romanism” by “Bible Christians”’ by Karl Keating. Ignatius Press 1988. You will then see how Boettner missed the boat.

Boettner has a list of Catholic ‘inventions’ which has become rather famous. One of them is ‘making the sign of the cross ... 300’. But Tertullian already wrote of that in 211 as an old custom. Keating examines the whole list of Boettner’s inventions.

I'm good, thanks.

 

[Joyous Song]

Hey, all. I'm a life long protestant, grew up mostly ignorant of catholic teachings. The only times it was mentioned it was in a disparaging manner, typically to do with the veneration of Mary or the "worship" of statues.
It's only the past year I've begun doing my own research on Catholicism. I've begun finding protestantism a bit wanting, and I suspect the catholic church might have some answers to that.
That said, I'm pretty sure I've only scratched the surface, and I'm a bit overwhelmed. I'm not convinced that catholicism is right for me yet, but if I do end up rejecting it I want to know that I at least did my best to understand it.

So, where the heck do I start? Any first steps, books to read, etc? How long could I expect this entire process to take?

JS: My mom walked in these same shoes long ago when she became disenfranchised by the judgmental Baptiste Church of her childhood. This is a story I shared of that journey and how she became Catholic here:

Meeting Your Guarding Angel

 

[jamiec]

Hey, all. I'm a life long protestant, grew up mostly ignorant of catholic teachings. The only times it was mentioned it was in a disparaging manner, typically to do with the veneration of Mary or the "worship" of statues.
It's only the past year I've begun doing my own research on Catholicism. I've begun finding protestantism a bit wanting, and I suspect the catholic church might have some answers to that.
That said, I'm pretty sure I've only scratched the surface, and I'm a bit overwhelmed. I'm not convinced that catholicism is right for me yet, but if I do end up rejecting it I want to know that I at least did my best to understand it.

So, where the heck do I start? Any first steps, books to read, etc? How long could I expect this entire process to take?

If you want a book recommendation - get this. IMO, it is the best Catholic Catechism in English there is, bar none: The Teaching of Christ: A Catholic Catechism for Adults

 

[jamiec]

And then read ‘Catholicism and Fundamentalism: The Attack On “Romanism” by “Bible Christians”’ by Karl Keating. Ignatius Press 1988. You will then see how Boettner missed the boat.

Boettner has a list of Catholic ‘inventions’ which has become rather famous. One of them is ‘making the sign of the cross ... 300’. But Tertullian already wrote of that in 211 as an old custom. Keating examines the whole list of Boettner’s inventions.

Boettner wrote a very good book on Predestination in 1932. It is the first book I read on a Calvinist doctrine that made sense of Calvinism. For that, I shall always be grateful to Boettner.

I don't think it is fair to blame him for the misunderstandings of Catholic doctrine in his book on Catholicism.

The list of "Catholic Heresies and Inventions" may have assembled in its 45-item form (as of 1989) by Boettner, but most of it goes back to 1864 or before. The date of 300 for that first item, the sign of the Cross, is at least as old as 1855. It is much to be regretted that Boettner does not give a full bibliography for the items in his list (& for all his book). I think most of them are from a book by one Charles Collette, a US Presbyterian writer. Here is the beginning of the list, from his 1864 book "Novelties of Romanism": The novelties of Romanism; in three parts: I. Development of doctrines. II. Chronological arrangement. III. Old and new creeds contrasted : Collette, Charles Hastings, 1816-1901 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

As can be seen, Boettner & Collette give different dates for some of the items in their lists. Collette's list goes down to 1564, Boettner's to the 20th century (as one might expect).

 

[chevyontheriver]

I don't think it is fair to blame him for the misunderstandings of Catholic doctrine in his book on Catholicism.

If he wrote a book on Catholicism he should have been in command of the information he put into that book. Which would include checking his sources to see if they were accurate. It's what you do when you write a non-fiction book. It isn't sufficient to just copy a secondary source. He blew it. And there are thousands of people every year that get snookered by his inaccuracies. How does that get undone?

 

[jamiec]

If he wrote a book on Catholicism he should have been in command of the information he put into that book. Which would include checking his sources to see if they were accurate. It's what you do when you write a non-fiction book. It isn't sufficient to just copy a secondary source. He blew it. And there are thousands of people every year that get snookered by his inaccuracies. How does that get undone?

As to his mistaken statements of historical detail, I agree.

As to misunderstandings of doctrine, I don’t agree. Far more is involved in stating what people believe than mere record-keeping; a degree of imaginative sympathy is needed, so that an author with no belief in transsubstantiation, or double predestination, or Total Biblical Inerrancy, when describing & analysing & criticising those beliefs, may be able to describe, analyse, and criticise them accurately and sympathetically and without distortion. To have that imaginative sympathy in order to describe doctrines which one regards as entirely or largely false, is no easy task.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Hey, all. I'm a life long protestant, grew up mostly ignorant of catholic teachings. The only times it was mentioned it was in a disparaging manner, typically to do with the veneration of Mary or the "worship" of statues.
It's only the past year I've begun doing my own research on Catholicism. I've begun finding protestantism a bit wanting, and I suspect the catholic church might have some answers to that.
That said, I'm pretty sure I've only scratched the surface, and I'm a bit overwhelmed. I'm not convinced that catholicism is right for me yet, but if I do end up rejecting it I want to know that I at least did my best to understand it.

So, where the heck do I start? Any first steps, books to read, etc? How long could I expect this entire process to take?

Step number one: Don't!

 

[chevyontheriver]

As to his mistaken statements of historical detail, I agree.

As to misunderstandings of doctrine, I don’t agree. Far more is involved in stating what people believe than mere record-keeping; a degree of imaginative sympathy is needed, so that an author with no belief in transsubstantiation, or double predestination, or Total Biblical Inerrancy, when describing & analysing & criticising those beliefs, may be able to describe, analyse, and criticise them accurately and sympathetically and without distortion. To have that imaginative sympathy in order to describe doctrines which one regards as entirely or largely false, is no easy task.

OK. It's hard to comprehend something you are unsympathetic to. And there is always the risk that in trying to comprehend something one might become sympathetic to it. So on that I agree.

But I refer you back to Karl Keating's 'Catholicism and Fundamentalism' for a detailing of some of the errors in fact and historical detail that Boettner should have had a handle on if he was going to write a book on the subject. If Boettner got all of that wrong did he really have a handle on doctrine either except to say he disagreed?

 

[chevyontheriver]

If you want a book recommendation - get this. IMO, it is the best Catholic Catechism in English there is, bar none: The Teaching of Christ: A Catholic Catechism for Adults

It's a good one. Others include 'The Catholic Catechism' by John Hardon. And of course the 'Catechism of the Catholic Church' itself. Another older one is 'A Catholic Adult Catechism' done a 30 years ago by the German bishop's conference. All good as is the one quoted above by Lawler et al. I'd recommend any of them.

 

[jamiec]

Step number one: Don't!

That's a point of view LOL

 

[jamiec]

OK. It's hard to comprehend something you are unsympathetic to. And there is always the risk that in trying to comprehend something one might become sympathetic to it. So on that I agree.

But I refer you back to Karl Keating's 'Catholicism and Fundamentalism' for a detailing of some of the errors in fact and historical detail that Boettner should have had a handle on if he was going to write a book on the subject. If Boettner got all of that wrong did he really have a handle on doctrine either except to say he disagreed?

I have Keating's book. It's a good read. I would have to look at it again & compare it with Boettner's own words. I think it's possible to blunder in historical matters, while making substantive theological points.

It may seem odd to defend Boettner, but:

1. I'm a contrarian.

2. I think Boettner often gets a tough time from Catholics, not always fairly.

3. I believe sympathetic understanding of those with whom one heartily disagrees is very important.

4. As a convert, I remember how bizarre Catholicism seemed to me, looking in from the outside. So I suspect it is very difficult, even for an irenically-disposed Calvinist, to "get into the mind" of Catholicism. In Boettner's case, there was the additional difficulty that he was (if the last chapter of his book on Predestination is anything to go by) a patriotic American as well as a conservative Calvinist - and the CC is unavoidably foreign to the US & its culture. There is a point beyond which the CC cannot be Americanised - the Pope is the living symbol of this. And, of course, it is hierarchical, not democratic, in its structure. So are some other Churches in the US - but they are not historically the enemy of Protestantism.

5. Boettner makes what seem to be good points at times - even if some of them can with equal truthfulness be made against Protestantism. But I think that mutual recrimination has nothing to be said for it.

I think he assumes, too often, that Catholics cannot be intelligent, thoughtful, sincere, well-educated - and also, be orthodox and believing Catholics. Granted, there is great deal of stuff in Catholic life that from any Christian POV needs to be corrected or uprooted - but one does not judge a religion (or any institution) fairly, if one looks only at the sewage. His book on Catholicism would have been much stronger, if he had judged it by its best examples. Catholicism has produced some appalling human beings: but is that because they were admirable examples of Catholic life, practice, and sincere interior religion - or because they were anything but those things ? An adequate critique of Catholicism cannot judge it by its tyrants and Mafiosi alone - it has to take account of people like St Francis of Assisi, St Philip Neri, or Cardinal Cesare Baronio, as well.

Likewise, other religions should be judged from those people who best exemplify what those religions stand for - not by those people who make no effort to exemplify what they stand for.

Catholics of the kind who are waved around as examples of the horrors of Catholicism, and people like that, show what Catholics are, if so disposed, capable of sinking to. They are examples of the depths Catholics can sink to - not of the heights they are meant, and can by God's grace be enabled, to aspire to.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

That's a point of view LOL

I could give my reasons, but it would be offensive to Catholics and against the forum rules about denigrating another faith community. Also I have to be careful what I post, because my wife was brought up and educated Catholic and she reads what I post on here, and her punishment of me would be immensely worse than being banned from the forum!!!

 

[chevyontheriver]

I could give my reasons, but it would be offensive to Catholics and against the forum rules about denigrating another faith community.

Got to love you, brother.

 

[jamiec]

I could give my reasons, but it would be offensive to Catholics and against the forum rules about denigrating another faith community. Also I have to be careful what I post, because my wife was brought up and educated Catholic and she reads what I post on here, and her punishment of me would be immensely worse than being banned from the forum!!!

Understood