Fired! Sheriff's Deputy on Campus During School Shooting but did Nothing

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...an armed resource officer, whose main purpose is to protect students, waits outside in a defensive position...


And an armed teacher is supposed to do better…
 
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mark kennedy

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His boss that that was inexcusable, in the press statement he looked profoundly confused. My biggest problem with county sheriffs deputies is they are glorified tax collectors and too excessive when it comes to arrest and live fire situations. A madman with a gun is killing kids and he, I don't know, just kind of stands there. Two other deputies or on suspension in order to review their response to an incident involving Cruz.
 
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TLK Valentine

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One person, not knowing how many shooters, a live fire situation, I am not exactly surprised he froze.

Remember that when it's a teacher who freezes next time.
 
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Hank77

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And an armed teacher is supposed to do better…
The coach who died protecting kids didn't freeze.

The neighbor in TX didn't freeze and the young man who drove the truck didn't freeze.
 
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mark kennedy

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Why would a skilled teacher be more likely to miss than a police officer?
Why would anyone be likely to miss? I guess it depends on how much time they spend at the range, when they might want to be home grading papers. The vast majority of these teachers are never going to encounter a mad gunman but those that do might find it hard to concentrate on the shot. It's very easy to miss with a handgun, a little off here and it's off by critical inches there. Guns cost money and skills take time and negotiating those situations take training and time. Time these educators might not have a lot of.

I'm not really opposed to the idea but there are some serious issues with it.
 
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mark kennedy

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The coach who died protecting kids didn't freeze.

He was standing in a doorway. Aiming a weapon, if you have one handy, is another matter entirely.

The neighbor in TX didn't freeze and the young man who drove the truck didn't freeze.

I expect you mean the guys in Texas that went after the guy who shot up a church. Didn't they have a rifle? It's much easier to aim and highly effective over more of a range then a hand gun.
 
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dgiharris

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And an armed teacher is supposed to do better…

An armed teacher with a HAND GUN vs an "unknown" number of attackers "somewhere" in the school with Automatic or Semi-Automatic Assault Rifles popping away is supposed to do better?

It is common police procedure to "wait for backup" when these things happen. Sure, in the movies the police rush in and go mono y mono Rambo style vs the attacker(s). But In real life, they set a perimeter and call in SWAT and/or backup.

People thinking that "arming the teachers" is an actual viable solution are simply delusional. They have no concept of the actual logistics and/or reality of a live fire situation.

Now throw in the fog of war. Imagine kids running and screaming everywhere. Also you have NO IDEA who is the shooter(s)? What if you come across "Someone" holding a gun? Is that person like you hunting for the killer or is he the killer? Quick!!!! You got 1 second to decide as you draw down on each other while kids are screaming and running around. Obviously nothing can go wrong with that...

What about teacher requirements? Majority of teachers with police or military experience are RETIRED!!!! Do you know what retired means? Means they are in all likelihood over 50 years old. Their days of running around and jumping over barriers tucking and rolling and bouncing back up into a perfect weaver stance are over. Now they've got arthritis, bad eye sight, aching knees, and lord knows whatever other things that nature loves to bestow on those over 50yrs-old. Not to mention that there are plenty of ex-military who aren't too keen on the idea of killing again.

Lastly, there is the fact that this is treating THE SYMPTOM!!! Arming teachers at best is a DEFENSIVE measure, meaning that the killer will actually kill some kids BEFORE said super teacher can show up and save the day. So at best, this measure can only reduce the number of deaths it can NEVER prevent deaths.
 
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wing2000

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It is common police procedure to "wait for backup" when these things happen. Sure, in the movies the police rush in and go mono y mono Rambo style vs the attacker(s). But In real life, they set a perimeter and call in SWAT and/or backup.

The deputy’s decision to remain outside breaks with police tactics for responding to active-shooting incidents. Ever since the 1999 attack at Colorado’s Columbine High School, authorities have emphasized the importance of pursuing the attacker or attackers quickly in an effort to eliminate the threat and prevent additional deaths.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...y-625pm:homepage/story&utm_term=.c2cf294538fa

...as the article points out, it is very dangerous and security officers have been killed in other incidents...however, they are directed to confront the shooter.
 
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dgiharris

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...I'm not really opposed to the idea but there are some serious issues with it.

The idea is a knee jerk reaction. Once you actually put serious thought behind the idea, this idea has a HOST of serious problems.

First off, how will these teachers know there is a shooting in progress? Depending on the logistics of the school, there can easily exists situations where teachers can't hear the gunshots (my high school was a campus with 12 different separate buildings). And even if/when they do hear the shots they might not know exactly where those shots are coming from. Then factor in that the teachers are most likely out-gunned as said assailant will have an Assault Rifle which in a massacre setting is a SUPERIOR weapon to a handgun (long hallways, open spaces, places to take cover and/or set up an ambush and/or fortify your position, etc).

Then there is the matter of actual authority and tactics.
What happens if the gunman seizes a room full of students and demands that the teachers with the guns come out and put the guns down or else the gunman will start killing kids, one kid for every twenty seconds the teachers don't come out. Are the teachers now obligated to sacrifice their lives for these kids and acquiesce to the demands?

What if the teacher shoots at the gunman, misses, and kills a kid? Is that teacher now liable for that death? What if the teacher freezes? Is that teacher now liable for whoever dies because he failed to prevent said death. In fact, as a teacher in this situation there is almost no way you can come out of a school shooting looking good. No matter how many kids are killed critics will always say that you didn't act fast enough and that X amount of dead kids is your fault.
 
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mark kennedy

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The idea is a knee jerk reaction. Once you actually put serious thought behind the idea, this idea has a HOST of serious problems.

First off, how will these teachers know there is a shooting in progress? Depending on the logistics of the school, there can easily exists situations where teachers can't hear the gunshots (my high school was a campus with 12 different separate buildings). And even if/when they do hear the shots they might not know exactly where those shots are coming from. Then factor in that the teachers are most likely out-gunned as said assailant will have an Assault Rifle which in a massacre setting is a SUPERIOR weapon to a handgun (long hallways, open spaces, places to take cover and/or set up an ambush and/or fortify your position, etc).

Then there is the matter of actual authority and tactics.
What happens if the gunman seizes a room full of students and demands that the teachers with the guns come out and put the guns down or else the gunman will start killing kids, one kid for every twenty seconds the teachers don't come out. Are the teachers now obligated to sacrifice their lives for these kids and acquiesce to the demands?

What if the teacher shoots at the gunman, misses, and kills a kid? Is that teacher now liable for that death? What if the teacher freezes? Is that teacher now liable for whoever dies because he failed to prevent said death. In fact, as a teacher in this situation there is almost no way you can come out of a school shooting looking good. No matter how many kids are killed critics will always say that you didn't act fast enough and that X amount of dead kids is your fault.
I think it's pretty obvious, they are educators not Army Rangers. They are certainly not law enforcement and they should be allowed to concentrate on teaching kids, not protecting them from some man gunman. Restricting access to schools seems possible but it will cost money. I still think Cruz wouldn't have been in that school had the warning signs been heeded and he couldn't get a military assault rifle in the first place.
 
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mark kennedy

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They won’t freeze because .... they are extremely vetted.... and .....
I think the word you are looking for is trained. Let's train our educators to be killers, that's the ticket, that's who I want looking out for my kids.
Hey, what’s a little friendly fire among friends.....
I know your kidding but how is your history teacher going to live with shooting a kid? It sounds good in the abstract but I'm thinking gun control might be a little more effective, to say nothing of less nerve racking for educators. The biggest issue I have is it's been done, there are ways of keeping this from happening.
 
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