Fireballs & Gold Dust

[ByTheSpirit]

What is your opinion on "Holy Spirit Fireballs" & "Golddust"?

 

[381465]

I'll risk it.

I attend Pentecostal church where most love this stuff. I don't see the the point or significance.

I don't want to upset anyone, but any miraculous occurrence that is not life changing (delivered from addiction, healing, etc.) is kind of a wasted miracle. Seems like a parlor trick or a shiny object with no substance.

In my opinion, God probably wouldn't bother with tricks. He is a life giving and life altering God.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

I'll risk it.

I attend Pentecostal church where most love this stuff. I don't see the the point or significance.

I don't want to upset anyone, but any miraculous occurrence that is not life changing (delivered from addiction, healing, etc.) is kind of a wasted miracle. Seems like a parlor trick or a shiny object with no substance.

My question wasn't a trap I asked actually because I was just in an "activation class" that was teaching this stuff. Something in my spirit was off, so I left the class. That is why I asked, because perhaps I am just being overly cautious. But I do know several controversial Charismatic ministers who practice those things, Todd Bentley, Benny Hinn, etc.

 

[Biblicist]

Undoubtedly the last line of your post would probably give us all a clue that the claims of gold dust and feathers are at best questionable; if Bentley and Hinn are still claiming that they occur then a number of red flags should jump out at us.

But to the question, do they occur, in my view they don't and considering that this is something that the more extreme fringe of the tele-evangelistic world tends to regularly jump onto then then I doubt that this would be something that the Father would undertake - but that is just my opinion.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Benny Hinn and Todd Bentley are not in agreement, true?

Gold dust can be faked and not sure about oily hands. Some people find it encouraging.

 

[Biblicist]

Gold dust can be faked and not sure about oily hands. Some people find it encouraging.

I would have have thought that oily hands would be the easiest of the tricks to fake as anyone who perspires on a hot day could probably "claim" that their perspiration is "of God". All that a rogue "tele-evangelist" would have to do is to carry a small vial of oil and smear it on his hands before he shakes the hands of some of their followers, undoubtedly they would be well aware that their meetings would attract those who would easily fall prey to this type of activity.

 

[Alithis]

What is your opinion on "Holy Spirit Fireballs" & "Golddust"?

Haha you probably know what I'm going to say.

It's false doctrine...does it happen ?
Sure.. Though I have never seen it in meetings I have seen .
But it means nothing.
People seek it because they seek signs.

They want everything to be signs .they don't so much want to die to themselves and go and obey JESUS.

If the don't do the latter then the former is even more vanity.

....
Add- and they were actually teaching this stuff?? What scriptures did they rip out and try and jam back together to fit thier puzzle?

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Haha you probably know what I'm going to say.

It's false doctrine...does it happen ?
Sure.. Though I have never seen it in meetings I have seen .
But it means nothing.
People seek it because they seek signs.

They want everything to be signs .they don't so much want to die to themselves and go and obey JESUS.

If the don't do the latter then the former is even more vanity.

....
Add- and they were actually teaching this stuff?? What scriptures did they rip out and try and jam back together to fit thier puzzle?

Oh they said that when Jesus said "all things you ask for in prayer you will receive" and that it is a faith building exercise and for gold dust it was that heaven is made from Gold and we are citizens of Heaven who can ask for that gold to appear.

Anyways, I got introduced to them by some TLR people. Seems all the ones that live near me are into this form of Charismatic Christianity...

 

[Alithis]

Oh they said that when Jesus said "all things you ask for in prayer you will receive" and that it is a faith building exercise and for gold dust it was that heaven is made from Gold and we are citizens of Heaven who can ask for that gold to appear.

Anyways, I got introduced to them by some TLR people. Seems all the ones that live near me are into this form of Charismatic Christianity...

Ok thanks for the heads up

No it absolutely not TLR.
The thing with tlr. it is not a church but a movement. So there are many free agents so to speak.
Avlot if people pick out the exciting bits of the teaching ..the healing the deliverance etc but utterly ignore the rest.then using the tor name they incorporate those “bits“ back into what they were already into.
They ignore sound doctrine.
And won't forsake these false doctrines.

Here in the Philippines was an unsanctioned group doing “kickstarts“ but they had incorporated teaching out of bethal Redding ..TLR network has disasociated them and forbidden then to reference the TLR name because their teaching does not match sound doctrine.

The sad thing is..for every 100 odd people that attend the kickstarts ... Maybe 2 to 5 go on to LIVE it out.
Most sink back into the comfortability of churched pews not willing to pay the cost.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Ok thanks for the heads up

No it absolutely not TLR.
The thing with tlr. it is not a church but a movement. So there are many free agents so to speak.
Avlot if people pick out the exciting bits of the teaching ..the healing the deliverance etc but utterly ignore the rest.then using the tor name they incorporate those “bits“ back into what they were already into.
They ignore sound doctrine.
And won't forsake these false doctrines.

Here in the Philippines was an unsanctioned group doing “kickstarts“ but they had incorporated teaching out of bethal Redding ..TLR network has disasociated them and forbidden then to reference the TLR name because their teaching does not match sound doctrine.

The sad thing is..for every 100 odd people that attend the kickstarts ... Maybe 2 to 5 go on to LIVE it out.
Most sink back into the comfortability of churched pews not willing to pay the cost.

I fully understand TLR is not responsible for those who follow, I had high hopes I suppose. No worry, Torben is still a genuine man and his purpose is still being fulfilled.

I think the biggest thing that upset me about meeting those TLR people was their endorsement of Pete Cabrera. I have no ill will towards the man but he has said some very questionable things and done the same as well.

He has/had a video where he tells a professing witch to lay hands on a sick person and heal them. I just cannot accept that the Holy Spirit would join with evil like that.

Am I wrong for such a view?

 

[Alithis]

Can't say re peter Cabrera? Never heard of him .
Yeah that's what I mean..people take prices of the Tlr teaching and merge it into what they were already doing.
This means you've not actually attended a full kick start with correctcteachibg yet .

Best to read “sound doctrine“

I fully understand TLR is not responsible for those who follow, I had high hopes I suppose. No worry, Torben is still a genuine man and his purpose is still being fulfilled.

I think the biggest thing that upset me about meeting those TLR people was their endorsement of Pete Cabrera. I have no ill will towards the man but he has said some very questionable things and done the same as well.

He has/had a video where he tells a professing witch to lay hands on a sick person and heal them. I just cannot accept that the Holy Spirit would join with evil like that.

Am I wrong for such a view?

 

[Alithis]

Ok correction on above
-after basic research I discovered I have heard of pete.
Nothing further to add lol.

 

[tturt]

Must have looked odd "And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them." Acts 2:1-3

Believe we're getting to the end times, why wouldn't we see more Godly supernatural occurrences?

The Jewish groom sent to his bethrothed, his bride, gold just prior to their wedding such as Isaac sent gold to Rebekah (Gen 24:24). In Rev, it talks about the bride being adorned for her husband.

Yeshua said look at the signs and wonders "If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him." John 10:37-38 He said with the signs and wonders the folks will realize it's Him.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Must have looked odd "And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them." Acts 2:1-3

Believe we're getting to the end times, why wouldn't we see more Godly supernatural occurrences?

The Jewish groom sent to his bethrothed, his bride, gold just prior to their wedding such as Isaac sent gold to Rebekah (Gen 24:24). In Rev, it talks about the bride being adorned for her husband.

Yeshua said look at the signs and wonders "If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him." John 10:37-38 He said with the signs and wonders the folks will realize it's Him.

Please don't misunderstand me, I am glad they have faith to believe in such things. I just cannot. Not because I don't think God can do whatever he wishes, but it had more to do with how it was presented.

The class was taught as though we ourselves can manipulate the Holy Spirit to do what we want him to do. That I am not ok with. I follow the Spirit, not the Spirit follows me.

 

[Alithis]

Must have looked odd "And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them." Acts 2:1-3

Believe we're getting to the end times, why wouldn't we see more Godly supernatural occurrences?

The Jewish groom sent to his bethrothed, his bride, gold just prior to their wedding such as Isaac sent gold to Rebekah (Gen 24:24). In Rev, it talks about the bride being adorned for her husband.

Yeshua said look at the signs and wonders "If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him." John 10:37-38 He said with the signs and wonders the folks will realize it's Him.

The signs accompanied the preaching of the Gospel.

Few that Pursue these signs that nither heal not deliver are engaged in preaching the whole gospel.

 

[Biblicist]

Must have looked odd "And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them." Acts 2:1-3

Believe we're getting to the end times, why wouldn't we see more Godly supernatural occurrences?

The Jewish groom sent to his bethrothed, his bride, gold just prior to their wedding such as Isaac sent gold to Rebekah (Gen 24:24). In Rev, it talks about the bride being adorned for her husband.

Yeshua said look at the signs and wonders "If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him." John 10:37-38 He said with the signs and wonders the folks will realize it's Him.

We need to keep in mind that the Signs and Wonders that Jesus performed, which pointed to Jesus as the Messiah, that these are not the same as the Operations of the Holy Spirit which the Holy Spirit regularly outworks through us.

The problem with any ministry or program that incorrectly teaches that we can expect to operate in Signs and Wonders or that we can even call them up virtually at will, is that these Signs and Wonders are the sole prerogative of the Father where he will outwork as he sees fit.

 

[Biblicist]

Please don't misunderstand me, I am glad they have faith to believe in such things. I just cannot. Not because I don't think God can do whatever he wishes, but it had more to do with how it was presented.

The class was taught as though we ourselves can manipulate the Holy Spirit to do what we want him to do. That I am not ok with. I follow the Spirit, not the Spirit follows me.

Whenever anyone suggests or even worse, where they go as far to aggressively promote the idea that we can freely operate within Signs and Wonders, they are not only standing against the Scriptures but they are also creating the situation where many people will quickly become disillusioned.

I do appreciate that even most Pentecostals and Charismatics are not aware that there is a vast difference between the 9 Manifestations of the Holy Spirit (1Cor 12:7-11) with that of Signs and Wonders; for that matter, it seems that the vast majority are even unable to define what they mean with their use of our English term 'spiritual gift'. I wonder how many are able to say which member of the Trinity is responsible for the outworking of Signs and Wonders?

 

[jiminpa]

I don't like dictating to God what He can't do, so maybe He has used these gold dust manifestations, but to just pursue them seems like a problem to me. We are to pursue God, and let Him work how He wants to. Chasing gold dust as what, the "new tongues," some kind of sign of the presence of God's Spirit, seems spiritually immature at best. If God does it, He knows what He's doing, but I would guess that it had a specific purpose for a specific place, maybe someone needed to know that He could bring provision from thin air.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

I don't like dictating to God what He can't do, so maybe He has used these gold dust manifestations, but to just pursue them seems like a problem to me. We are to pursue God, and let Him work how He wants to. Chasing gold dust as what, the "new tongues," some kind of sign of the presence of God's Spirit, seems spiritually immature at best. If God does it, He knows what He's doing, but I would guess that it had a specific purpose for a specific place, maybe someone needed to know that He could bring provision from thin air.

I certainly don't doubt God can't do anything he wants to do. But the issue I had was the idea that I can manipulate miracles like that. I serve God, not he serves me. Faith comes from spending time with the Lord... spending time. Those whose faith is built upon a manifestation (whether true or not) have only a superficial faith that will not stand the storms that will come. That is my issue.

Love ya Jim!

 

[jiminpa]

I certainly don't doubt God can't do anything he wants to do. But the issue I had was the idea that I can manipulate miracles like that. I serve God, not he serves me. Faith comes from spending time with the Lord... spending time. Those whose faith is built upon a manifestation (whether true or not) have only a superficial faith that will not stand the storms that will come. That is my issue.

Love ya Jim!

I didn't take it that you doubted that God can do anything, except sin of course. I think that we are in agreement.

Love back at you. It is a blessing to know you, such as we do.