finding truth in Christianity

[Jesusthekingofking]

So you can only list one difference which is Calvinism then draw that conclusion. As I said, if you can't have a list to back your statement, it only means your statement is invalid. Moreover, Calvinism is cored on one term which is "Predestination". Bible itself doesn't provide an explanation on what it is. So strictly speaking it's not about how the Bible is interpreted. It's about a term never explained by the Bible itself.

So even the one and only case in your list is invalid!

Bible itself doesn't provide an explanation on what it is. <--

did you just said that? I'm just too lazy to explain those debate in detail here as that's not the heart of the discussion in this thread, do your homework, I see you've a lot of false assumption. The first step is to open a topic

'Bible itself doesn't provide an explanation on what predestination is.'

 

[Dave L]

No brother. Calvinism don't exist after the second generation of the reformers, are you so blind to see baptist, anglican, lutheran, methodist and thousand of non-denominal churches don't teach what you believe? most of the christian don't believe what you believe, otherwise why limited atonement is such a heated debate?

I challenge you to get this book and read it urself
https://www.amazon.com/Extent-Atonement-Historical-Critical-Review/dp/1433643928#:~:text=In The Extent of the,case for a universal atonement.&text=He concludes by showing that,evangelism, missions, and preaching.

Luther wrote Bondage of the Will, the basis of Calvinistic anti-free will logic. They were all Augustinians.

 

[Jesusthekingofking]

Luther wrote Bondage of the Will, the basis of Calvinistic anti-free will logic. They were all Augustinians.

I'm a lutheran. Let me clarify with you, Luther is not a calvinist: Was Luther a Calvinist?

and, the book you mentioned 'the Bondage of the Will', he wrote that not to support your theological conclusion but to response to Erasmus.

We lutheran, affirm the doctrine of the original sin and unconditional election but we reject double predestination, irresistible grace and one saved always saved

Brief Statement of LCMS Doctrinal Position - The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod

 

[Dave L]

I'm a lutheran. Let me clarify with you, Luther is not a calvinist: Was Luther a Calvinist?

and, the book you mentioned 'the Bondage of the Will', he wrote that not to support your theological conclusion but to response to Erasmus.

We lutheran, affirm the doctrine of the original sin and unconditional election but we reject double predestination, irresistible grace and one saved always saved

Brief Statement of LCMS Doctrinal Position - The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod

Melanchthon departed from Luther's views and produced a new version of Lutheran thought. Check your history.

 

[Albion]

they fight over some secondary disagreement almost everyday in youtube, one of the topic is calvinisms, go figure

and you think this ^ is an adequate answer to the question??

Here's the actual situation:

You want to compare a single denomination--the Roman Catholic Church--with thousands of other denominations. OF COURSE, that will make the latter look diverse and the former look, well, singular (even though the RCC is divided all sorts of ways internally).

It's a phony comparison.

We could just as easily do this in reverse by taking one confessional Protestant denomination and arguing that it's united "unlike those Catholics," meaning the Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Copts, Old Catholics, etc. taken as if they were a single church.

 

[hedrick]

I'm a lutheran. Let me clarify with you, Luther is not a calvinist: Was Luther a Calvinist?

The article is interesting. As far as I can tell, Luther differs from Calvin primarily in double predestination. On limited atonement, it's not so clear that Calvin taught that either. On perseverance, the quotes in the article don't reject perseverance so much as justification by faith.

 

[Jesusthekingofking]

Melanchthon departed from Luther's views and produced a new version of Lutheran thought. Check your history.

Check your history again:

Luther never compromise with the fanatics (the calvinist), Melanchthon were trying to compromise with Rome but refuted by other lutheran.

Luther never on ur side please.

 

[Jesusthekingofking]

The article is interesting. As far as I can tell, Luther differs from Calvin primarily in double predestination. On limited atonement, it's not so clear that Calvin taught that either. On perseverance, the quotes in the article don't reject perseverance so much as justification by faith.

perseverance of the saints basically believe if you are truly predestinated and elected you will never ever fall away, that's contradict with Lutheran's view. Lutheran believe God indeed working and favor onto one's salvation, but one wilful sinfulness can reject the salvation and turned a way from being saved..

 

[Jesusthekingofking]

and you think this ^ is an adequate answer to the question??

Here's the actual situation:

You want to compare a single denomination--the Roman Catholic Church--with thousands of other denominations. OF COURSE, that will make the latter look diverse and the former look, well, singular (even though the RCC is divided all sorts of ways internally).

It's a phony comparison.

We could just as easily do this in reverse by taking one confessional Protestant denomination and arguing that it's united "unlike those Catholics," meaning the Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Copts, Old Catholics, etc. taken as if they were a single church.

I just gave one example in the protestant churches, I can use the baptist and those baptise infants as another example.. the debate is endless..

 

[Albion]

I just gave one example in the protestant churches, I can use the baptist and those baptise infants as another example.. the debate is endless..

No, you cannot both talk about "40,000" different Protestant churches and then talk, in the next post, about something you see in one of them only.

If you want to compare differences within each of two denominations, the Catholic Church isn't going to come out looking very united.

 

[Dave L]

Check your history again:

Luther never compromise with the fanatics (the calvinist), Melanchthon were trying to compromise with Rome but refuted by other lutheran.

Luther never on ur side please.

All of the Reformers were Augustinians. Free will was a Catholic heresy according to them.

 

[Jesusthekingofking]

No, you cannot both talk about "40,000" different Protestant churches and then talk, in the next post, about something you see in one of them only.

If you want to compare differences within each of two denominations, the Catholic Church isn't going to come out looking very united.

what's wrong with saying protestant churches aren't united? romans catholic is not in the context of the discussion when I say protestant is full of schisms, what is your concern actually?

 

[Jesusthekingofking]

All of the Reformers were Augustinians. Free will was a Catholic heresy according to them.

in details not every group hold onto the reformed's view of soteriology, you need to explore more...

 

[Dave L]

in details not every group hold onto the reformed's view of soteriology, you need to explore more...

Read Bondage of the Will by Luther and then stake your claim.

 

[Jesusthekingofking]

Read Bondage of the Will by Luther and then stake your claim.

come on dude, I've already said, bondage of will is wrote to response to erasmus, what's your problem? Lutheran believed in original sin and predestination (single), and we teach that we can't by own ability to to have faith and reach God for our own salvation. What's your problem actually? You're quoting a figure who isn't on your side lol..

 

[Dave L]

come on dude, I've already said, bondage of will is wrote to response to erasmus, what's your problem? Lutheran believed in original sin and predestination (single), and we teach that we can't by own ability to to have faith and reach God for our own salvation. What's your problem actually? You're quoting a figure who isn't on your side lol..

If Luther was right, what's your beef?

 

[Albion]

what's wrong with saying protestant churches aren't united?

Because you are talking about thousands of different churches as if they are a single church! You might as well complain that restaurants don't all offer the same level of service. Well then, find one that does what you want. Problem solved.

 

[1213]

...so how does one find truth in Christianity. i don't deny the authority of the bible but i'm interested in the correct interpretation of the bible. ...What are some of the advice I can get for those who have went through it?

My advice is, remain in the truth and avoid all interpretations. Interpretations are made when people don’t like the truth and what the Bible tells. Bible explains itself well enough, no reason to make up own stuff, unless you don’t like the truth.

Jesus therefore said to those Jews who had believed him, "If you remain in my word, then you are truly my disciples. You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."
John 8:31-32

 

[Hawkins]

Bible itself doesn't provide an explanation on what it is. <--

did you just said that? I'm just too lazy to explain those debate in detail here as that's not the heart of the discussion in this thread, do your homework, I see you've a lot of false assumption. The first step is to open a topic

'Bible itself doesn't provide an explanation on what predestination is.'

If you disagree, please quote verses which explains the term predestination.

Again, you can only display empty words without anything backing yourself up.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You might find an exploration of the Lutheran tradition fascinating.

There are often two caricatures of Lutheranism out there, one that sees Lutheranism as "just another Protestantism" and another that sees Lutheranism as "basically Roman Catholicism without the Pope". But neither is true. Lutheranism is both deeply Catholic and also, quite obviously, the first Protestantism--but in Lutheranism these two things are not held in tension or as contrast.

For Lutherans, our faith is the Catholic faith. The Reformation was never about a "protest against the Catholic Church"; but was always about being faithful members of the Catholic Church--and that being a faithful member of the Church meant evangelical reform. Reform, not revolution or rebellion. Reform by way of championing the Gospel, and making clear the distinction between Law and Gospel so that faithful preaching of God's word would not be obfuscated by the false theologies of glory.

That is to say: the faithful preaching of the Gospel must be based upon the innate truth of the Gospel, as clearly delivered to us by Christ our Lord and His Holy Apostles as recorded for us in the sacred pages of Holy Scripture. That is not a rejection of the fathers, the Creeds, or of the Church's received tradition--but an affirmation of the deposit of faith first delivered, and to which the Church has by divine call been commanded to maintain and affirm. Thus faithful preachers and theologians must go ad fontes, to the source, which is always Christ and His word--His Gospel to us sinners.

-CryptoLutheran

Goodness this is not true at all. Luther rejected Catholic teachings that led men to follow the teachings and traditions of men over the Word of God and pointed people back to the bible. The reformation only started because the Roman Catholic Church was not following what Luther read from the scriptures and continued as people gained access to the bible started reading the bible for themselves. From what I read in your post your more Catholic then Lutheran. The reformation was a return to the Word of God over following man made traditions and teachings that denied God's Word and separated those who followed them from God and His Word.