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Final Fantasy I -X

Discussion in 'Friendship Court' started by VoiceofAngels, Feb 12, 2002.

  1. grayrest

    grayrest New Member

    3
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    The games actually started out on the Nintendo Entertainment System, then moved to the PlayStation, and most recently the PS2.

    The first was a fairly good game, had a nice story and kicked everything off.

    I never played the second.

    The third is widely regarded as the best of the series, it had a terrific storyline, a nice skills system, and that really cool opera scene where the music matched the text.

    The fourth through sixth were released only in Japan, but were put onto a single PlayStation disc but I didn't play them.

    The seventh was the first on the PlayStation, it again had a compelling story that was backed up by great FMV video sequences that were fairly cutting edge when it was released. The materia system was enjoyable and I spent forever beating all the weapons and trying to chain materia together. This is the Final Fantasy I started playing first.

    The eigth was terrible, the storyline was not compelling and I only finished it to say that I finished it. The graphics were more uniform and refined, the FMV sequences were better, but the game wasn't as good. Who wants to draw all the spells out of the stinkin' things you fight? The gunblade was fun, that was the best thing about the game. I didn't really like triple triad.

    The ninth was again excellent, with a nice storyline and a graphical style reminiscent of the first final fantasies. I didn't play this as much as seven, but I did find all the chocobo treasures.

    Final Fantasy Tactics was a decent game, with a mildly interesting story and the tactics they included were different from other games and quite interesting. I couldn't take the half hour fights every ten minutes of game, so I never finished it.

    Now that I've answered the question you asked (but not the one you meant) I'll discuss the question (or implied statement) you really asked: "Certain aspects of the Final Fantasy Games make me feel uncomfortable and I don't want my children seeing them."

    They're your children and your responsibility, I do not debate your authority over your children or your right to ask their uncle not to play Final Fantasy games around your children. You are the final authority over what they see and hear. I do, however, disagree that these games are necessarily evil.

    First you must understand where I'm coming from. We are in the world, but not of the world. We can have one of two responses to this: we can bury our heads in the sand and avoid our culture (turn into ourselves and become a "holy huddle" or what have you) or keep in touch with the culture (read the same books, watch the same movies, listen to the same music as our non-christian neighbors). Which one of these is the best is subject to debate, but I lean towards the latter, mostly due to Pauls actions on Mars Hill. In the last part of Acts 17, Paul is in Athens and speaks to the Athenians, appealing to their culture and winning many for Christ. 1 Corinthians 9:20-22 also discusses this, saying that Paul reaches groups of people in their own way so as to win some to Christ. I use the books, movies, and games I view in order to reach out to my non-chrisian friends. I've met a lot of people and gotten involved in many theological discussions in this way. Any topic that relates to metaphysical aspects is a great deep conversation starter and there are other aspects in movies that can also be used to point to Christ in today's culture. I believe that this (further) justifies the ideas in Romans 1:20 that men are without excuse, God is so engrained in our culture that it is difficult to escape all Christian ideas.

    I applaud the approach BK_30 takes with her children and plan on doing the same thing with my own kids when I have them. Your children will face issues like this in school and definitely when they hit college. You can either work to have them actively analyze the ideas presented to them or zealously declare a wide variety of stuff evil. The issues WILL come up, college is a crossroads of multiculturalism and if someone isn't firmly rooted in good theology and able to defend their views in an argument they'll either fall away or be no use to advancing the cause of the gospel on their campus. One of the things I face when evangelising is that people are used to Christians who zealously cling to their (in their opinion) quaint beliefs with no justification. We are not merely mindless robots, but rather have been given the gift of a mind and the ability to defend what we can believe. How can we be "good and faithful servants" if we do not witness? We can't. We are called to bear witness and make disciples of all nations, how can we do this if we cannot interact on a real level with non-christians? We can't. When witnessing, how much more effective would we be if we could provide them with examples of biblical principals using the songs, books, movies, and games they're familiar with? Witness by lifestyle is great, but not highly effective, it's much more effective to establish a friendship with someone, have them see your life and share Christ with them. I do this with the geek population at Georgia Tech (which I currently attend) through books and video games. I know a several guys that I'm witnessing to who will talk to me about metaphysical issues but avoid some other christains like the plauge because they can't stand mindless devotion. Now that you understand where I'm coming from, I'll address each of your points in turn:

    I don't. They're merely game elements, but many do have a relation to other religions. Shiva, Ifrit, and Bahamut are gods in other religions, many people who play do not know this and it makes an interesting conversation starter. There are also creatures with a christian influence (leviathan, crusader, diablos) and those of greek influence (the brothers [minotaurs], cyclops, atomos). Some are good, some are evil in their respective religions, but again, many do not know the background so it really shouldn't have an affect on the gamer.

    I disagree here as well, killing animals for money is not evil at all. Animals are a resource and here to provide humans with a better lifestyle. I make this argument from Genesis 1:26. Since mankind is ruler over the animals, they are here by and for our pleasure. Just as God is ruler over us and we are here by and for his pleasure. If you don't take that argument, maybe you'll agree with this one: by using any animal products you cause somebody to kill an animal for money. This includes all meats, animal fibers (wool, leather, fur), and fats (in makeups, cooking grease, and a million other things). This is also a game device and does not weigh against my conscience, I have no problem with this.

    In the bible I only see practicing magic and/or sorcery forbidden (Lev. 19:26; Deut 18:10,14;2 Kings21:6;Acts 19:19;Rev 22:15) but given that I do not practice sorcery, I see no problem having it in a game or book or movie. Indeed, magic is nothing compared to the power of God (as seen with Moses in Exodus and Ezek 13:20), so have no desire to practice them and the knowledge of practicing them brings about the temptation to practice, so I have no desire to learn such things. I do not, however, cry evil immediately upon hearing the word, but instead debate the topic in a logical manner and bring the conversation around to Christianity if possible, otherwise I ignore it and let it slide.

    Evil and good both exist, that is the way of this world. What is the problem? The cards themselves are pieces of paper with ink on them, neither good nor evil, but the ideas are. Being able to distinguish good from evil is a part of the sanctification process. Ignoring evil doesn't make it go away, much more profitable is being able to distinguish evil from good, being able to tell why it is evil and be able to use that to witness to others. In this way, evil is confronted and defeated.

    I heartily agree about the beliefs part but deny the morals, the two are NOT one and the same. Pantheism (what the designer of the game believes) is intellectually bankrupt, and I'm happy to explain this to any of my non-christian friends when they ask me, another good conversation.

    The morals, however are not bad. The characters practice sacrifice, perseverance, integrity, and a host of other virtues. The evil characters practice killing, dishonesty, and a host of other faults. The distinction between the two types is easy to see and stereotypical. Participants actively want to be like the heros and not like the villains, the heros have good morals, the villains have bad. What else can you ask for?

    That is my opinion with some scriptural backing, if you disagree, please give verses of scripture that I may confirm the truth of your opinion. I hope this gives you some idea of how I and many of my friends that are currently in college witnessing to others feel, the things of this world are nothing, but saving souls is vital. Aspects of culture provide a great meeting ground for friendship and examples. God bless you and your children and I pray that they become powerful soldiers in our struggle. Grace and peace.

    grayrest
     
  2. MatthewDiscipleofGod

    MatthewDiscipleofGod Senior Veteran

    +261
    Baptist
    Married
    US-Others
    I play Final Fantasy X for the Playstation 2. I know it's all fake of course being 24 and have asked God to guide me if he thinks playing it is bad. Never felt he told me it is bad, as long as I under stand it's fiction and it doesn't hamper my Christian values and I don' think it does. When anything relgious based gets mentioned in the game (and in this episode it does a lot) I think about how good it is to have my own true religon (the game religion in this episode it really just a made up one as far as I can tell since I studied religion in High School). Of course I think people need to decide for themseleves, if something they do, play or watch pulls them away from God stay away from it. If not though I don't see any harm in it,and of course if it's not a sin according to the Bible as well. Of course if you have others watching and it pulls them away from God you should refrain from it while in their presence.
     
  3. VoiceofAngels

    VoiceofAngels New Member

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    Wow! Thank you for all of your thoughts on this subject. I could not have anticipated such a great response.
     
  4. Thomas

    Thomas Junior Member

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    Christian
    Final Fantasy.. I used to love those games. The one I've played the most is Final Fantasy 7. I've burned it. I believe it is evil.

    It's not only the black magic thing, there's so much more.. The game starts with the bombing of a reactor by a terrorist group and you're a mercenary hired by this group. They're bombing it because the reactor drains "Mako" energy... According to the game, this energy is formed by souls. When people die, their souls go to the center of the earth, and form an energy called "lifestream", which is a vital energy for the planet. Quite new age. And there's more stuff, and what really gets me is the concept of the main enemy: his name is Sephiroth, he is the biological son of Hojo and Lucrecia, but he claims that he is the son of Jenova, who is his mother. Ok, mother Jenova, father Jeova, quite similar. And Jenova is sort of a spiritual being, and the game clearly shows that he does have a biological mother who is not Jenova. Too similar to Jesus. And then I read in an magazine that in his final form he is called "savior sephiroth". (I usually see it as "safer" though) Ok, so, based on all that, it just seems that the main enemy of the game is Jesus, in a way. Which is just.... terrible. Oh, yeah, you summon monsters to help you beat the bad guys, you summon the demon Ifrit to help you and stuff.. cool, cool.

    I hope that gave you some insight :) Don't let your kids get near this. I wish I had not. And to all of you who're desperately denfending the games, I ask you, do you really believe in your hearts that these games are not in any way against the God?
    I too prayed for God to show me if this or that game is evil or not, if it is right or not to play it... but, if you don't want to hear a "no, don't play it".. you can end up pretending to hear a vague "yes", formulated by your very own mind. And, hm, this "I know what's truth and what's fantays" thing... don't be fooled by it, ok? That is a great way the devil uses to draw christians into sin and the occult etc. If now you think summoning spirits is ok in a game as long as there's no blood, next you will think it's ok if there's blood as long as there is no sex... and on and on... until you're totally into sin. I talk from experience. So be wise, and careful, and honest to yourself. I know that some things are wrong to one and not to another...I guess... I'm not telling you all to burn your rpgs... just take care.
     
  5. Blessed-one

    Blessed-one a long journey ahead

    +170
    Protestant
    Single
    *wonder about Narnia and Lord of the Rings*
     
  6. FFX

    FFX PS2 Chick with Passion

    373
    +3
    Non-Denom
    Single
    AU-Liberals
    So what is the topic of this thread... sorry, I didn't start from the first page... anyway... it seems like its about Final Fantasy!!

    Well, I'm actually a HUGE fan of the series (check out my name: FFX)... I don't think it is bad unless you spend countless hours playing without being able to stop!! :p...
     
  7. Blynn

    Blynn Well-Known Member

    +78
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    Hi,

    This has turned out to be a very interesting and informative thread for parents. :)

    I have 3 children (5,10,13) and we have a PlayStation. I usually try to look at the ratings on games to see if they are age appropriate (maybe they should have christian ratings on them).

    We have come up with a little game I do not know if this helps. We do it with video games and television.

    Could we watch this movie with Jesus? Could we play this video game with Jesus? It just kind of makes you think... what would He think? Sort of like a What Would Jesus Do.

    We have found that Jesus likes John Madden Football and Demolition Derby on Playstation :D Just kidding I do not know if He would play video games at all, but these are the games my children have decided that are ok to play on Playstation.

    I do agree with some of the posters that have warned against occult infulences. I think we should take that very seriously.

    God Bless all of you that are parents,
    Roberta
     
  8. BK_30

    BK_30 secret agent:licensed to witness

    123
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    I of all people would never down play the danger of the occult. I also think that A lot of the parents have very interesting ways of dealing with trying to raise children in our society...the could you play this with Jesus...I had not thought of, for my younger 2 that will probably work very well...thanks for the tip Blynn :)
     
  9. Susan

    Susan 退屈させた1 つ (bored one)

    +120
    Non-Denom
    Single
    US-Democrat
    I made a posting similar to this in other FF related thread(s) in the Christian Teens Corner.
    I am a Christian, have been a Christian since 1997.
    Unfortunately I was a highly devoted (some might say compulsive) fan of all things Final Fantasy (no to mention other Square and Capcom console RPGs) until April 2001.
    I played FF7 and FF8 BOTH.
    Although I found many objectionable things (the blasphemy of God's name in both, the implied immoral affairs with no consequences Cloud and Tifa in FF7 and Squall and Rinoa in FF8 et al.)
    The worst thing I found was this. Hironobu Sakaguchi, the writer of these games, is a member of the AUM Shinrikyo/Aleph cult, and he uses them shamelessly to promote it and the poa doctrine.
    Let me digress a second.
    Aum Shinrikyo, for those who do not know, was/is a Japanese doomsday cult. Beginning in 1989, Aum began a march toward Harumagedon through homicide, culminating in the 1995 sarin gas attack on the Tokyo subway.
    After the mass arrest of its members, the group put terror plans on hold and is attempting to reform its image through a name change to "Aleph" in 2001 and the appointment of Fumihiro Joyu in 2002 as cult guru rather than Chizuo Matsumoto (Shokou Asahara)
    Poa was the doctrine, from Sivite Hinduism and the demon that posessed Asahara, that glorifies murder as a soul-benefiting act.
    Now back to topic.
    The Aum/Aleph cult markets itself as a religious system of physics. Hironobu Sakaguchi described his faith in similar terms in a July 12 2001 Los Angeles Times interview abt his new movie.
    However, this is not the only Sakaguchi-Aum connection.
    The basic plot of FF7 is Aum Shinrikyo cult doctrine. Crossreference between the game and a respectable critique of Aum doctrine and watch the similarities pop up.
    A few of the most blatant:
    Salvation through terrorism-as well as the glorification portrayal of terrorists as people who care rather than as murderously decieved delusionists.
    The gurus-Aeris and Bugenhagen, in FF7 are set up as absolute guru figures ala Asahara and Joyu. In fact, some of their dialogue seems to be co-opted from Aum leaders' terror rhetoric.
    Worst of all
    Poa itself is presented in the end when Cloud literally kills Sephiroth and is benefited by the "energy" flow-then the world is destroyed for 500 years. Sounds like an Aum dream gone wild.
    I'll post another message dealing more with FF8 later, but if anyone wants to know more about this, e-mail me at
    [email protected] for a full length article abt Sakaguchi, poa, Aum, and FF7-and a Christian perspective on all of this.
    BTW: Most battles in both (random battles) could be considered as just polygons on a screen. (therefore not representations of poa) However, most major battles with a human or humanoid character usually end in obvious death.
    Hope I didn't bore you with my treatise! :eek:
     
  10. Susan

    Susan 退屈させた1 つ (bored one)

    +120
    Non-Denom
    Single
    US-Democrat
    Attention FFX:
    Please read my above reply on FF7
     
  11. Susan

    Susan 退屈させた1 つ (bored one)

    +120
    Non-Denom
    Single
    US-Democrat
    Attention FFX:
    Please read my above reply on FF7
     
  12. Susan

    Susan 退屈させた1 つ (bored one)

    +120
    Non-Denom
    Single
    US-Democrat
    Hey. Please read it
     
  13. Seifer

    Seifer New Member

    39
    +0
    Christian
    /me is Final Fantasy guru :p
     
  14. Rainbow Joy Promises

    Rainbow Joy Promises Queen of Typos

    72
    +0
    Hi there.

    I'm a big fan of FF9. I think it's a great game and a lot of fun.

    I know a lot of you are probably thinking that I'm getting pulled into the occult now that I've said that. But I don't think so. I know that Jesus Christ is Lord. I have no delusions that I can go out and summon spirits or cast spells. As far as potions that heal you, I don't view that any differently than our modern medicines.

    I don't think this game (keeping in mind that I don't know the storylines nor have played any of the other Final Fantasies...except for FF8 for about half an hour, and I barely saw any storyline) encourages worship of Gaia.

    The characters involved in FF9 do question where they come from, and what the meaning of their life is. But don't we all at some point in our lives? I did before I got saved.

    I can understand where you might not want children to play this game. But I think it's okay for a Christian who is grounded in God with a good foundation.

    To me, personally, it sounds like one of those "meat that's been offered to idols" issues. I believe it's all right for me to play it, because the Lord hasn't told me differently. But if it bothers you, I won't play it in front of you. :)
     
  15. Susan

    Susan 退屈させた1 つ (bored one)

    +120
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    Hey. Did anyone here read my reply (higher on this page) about the connection between Final Fantasy and Aum Shinrikyo/Aleph?
     
  16. Susan

    Susan 退屈させた1 つ (bored one)

    +120
    Non-Denom
    Single
    US-Democrat
    If Sakaguchi's a member, also (I'm 99 percent sure he is) you can imagine that a good portion of his royalties/salary would go to Aleph since they require donations from members.
    Are you comfortable with (albeit indirectly) sending money into the same cult that gassed the Tokyo subway and killed/abused even its own members?
    I would definitely not be :-(
     
  17. ZiSunka

    ZiSunka It means 'yellow dog'

    +276
    Christian
    Thanks for the info Susan. I didn't have any idea about the cult. I sure wouldn't want my money to go to them, or any of my precious, god-given hours to be spent on something so violent, created by a cult.
     
  18. Susan

    Susan 退屈させた1 つ (bored one)

    +120
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    To be most clear:
    Final Fantasy was not a "direct" publication of Aum/Aleph.
    However, as seen in my above reply, the author/writer/director Hironobu Sakaguchi is a member and openly promotes the cult doctrines (even poa which it claims to now have disavowed.) Also, the donations are required. So he probably would donate much.
    I'll send you an in-depth article I wrote about this if you want it. E-mail me, give me your address and I'll have it back to you in a few days.
    Thanks!
     
  19. Caedmon

    Caedmon kawaii Supporter

    +538
    Catholic
    US-Others
    Susan, I read your post about FF7. Do you have any non-internet-based substantiating documents for your claims? I don't put much faith in propaganda generated by website designers with agendas; I require scholarly documented representations of truth. Do you have a bibliography on which to base your thesis? If you do, please post it. :scratch:
     
  20. Susan

    Susan 退屈させた1 つ (bored one)

    +120
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    The rest of my documentation can be found using these URLs
    http://www.gospelcom.net/cgi-apolog...=&Source=&Keywords=&Date=&Description=&Notes=
    That is the Apologetics Index News Article database (and I hope that link works! :) ) It has condensed copies of the articles I referred to and, for most, access to the original articles on their original websites, so it's sort of a portal. Most of my post 1995 info on Aum comes from there. Also you might want to try these other links I found good
    Apologetics Index general entry and portals on Aum/Aleph:
    http://www.gospelcom.net/apologeticsindex/a06.html
    "False Prophet," Patrick Bellamy's online article, he's secular but a lot better than Kaplan and Marshall's "The Cult":
    http://www.crimelibrary.com/terrorists/aum/main.htm
    Also the Japanese wire service has a limited but somewhat useful database and up-do-date Aum news, but it's slanted so beware
    http://home.kyodo.co.jp/ (search keyword "aum")
    I hope these were useful.
    I'll post more for more info another time.
     
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