Feminist: We can't have a feminist future without abolishing the family.

[durangodawood]

Well, I'd say that it's a bit more complicated than that, since views are being threatened in multiple different directions. There are actually strands of feminism like complementarian feminism, which does hold that men and women are different and are better suited for different roles, but then challenges the conception that "feminine" work is of lesser value than "masculine" work.

If complementarians dropped the hierarchical nonsense and worked towards this type of vision, they would be in much better shape, but mainstream feminists would still view them with skepticism and hostility, since it's the "wrong" type of feminism.

I would say that all of feminism is a "dark corner" insofar as it largely operates under the assumption that if you don't accept a particular narrative of what equality entails, you are the enemy. There is limited freedom of choice at the ideological level, so a woman who chooses to stay home for the "wrong" reasons is going to automatically draw disapproval (though probably not vilification).

I wonder what fields complementarians would recommend for men and not women?
Medicine?
Science?
Corporate exec?
Athletics?
Law?

 

[Silmarien]

I wonder what fields complementarians would recommend for men and not women?
Medicine?
Science?
Corporate exec?
Athletics?
Law?

Law is an interesting one, since there are aspects of it that are cut-throat and competitive, and aspects of it that are more conciliatory, like mediation. I really can't speak for complementarians, since I haven't read any of it (unless you count Edith Stein), but feminists who think that there are genuine differences between men and women would argue that women shouldn't have to behave in a traditionally masculine manner to be successful in the working world. We should value cooperation more highly rather than primarily rewarding highly competitive personalities.

The one serious problem I see with egalitarianism going all the way back to Plato is that traits and work associated with masculinity are still valued more highly than those associated with femininity, even when the glass ceiling is ideally removed. Why do we value a career in the sciences more highly than a career in education, for example? The pay gap exists in part because any field dominated by women is viewed as less valuable (see for example: here), and I'm not sure that even ending up with a 50/50 ratio in every field would fully solve the problem if the way that men and women address problems is different.

 

[RDKirk]

I wonder what fields complementarians would recommend for men and not women?
Medicine?
Science?
Corporate exec?
Athletics?
Law?

There wouldn't and shouldn't be entire fields cordoned off, but rather areas of fields where women excel and other areas of the same fields where men excel.

You can look at the fields and see women have made their own break-outs over the last 40-50 years of activity:

In law, you see many more women in family law. In medicine, you see many more women in pediatrics and obstetrics. As corporate execs, you see many more women in Human Resources and data security. In science, you see many more women in biology.

In athletics the breakout is interesting because atheletics is (and has always been) greatly a function of public entertainment. So the we can look at the sports where women not only tend to be more participatory, but also where the public finds them most entertaining.

There are plenty of exceptions, but a "male sport" tends to be a sport where direct physical contact is the primary action of the game and where one person makes the score. A "female sport" tends to have much less (if any) physical contact and where team play is most important in scoring.

Thus, the ultimate male sport is boxing, MMA, or wrestling; the ultimate female sport is indoor volleyball. This doesn't of course, mean there aren't female boxers or wrestlers or male volleyball teams. But female boxers, female MMA, and female wrestling aren't anywhere near as popular at its highest level of play as the male counterparts.

And female indoor volleyball at it's highest level of play is more entertaining than male volleyball.

If we look at more "artistic" sports like gymnastics and ice skating, we also see some gender breakouts in terms of power events and style events.