Female student files civil rights complaint over boy in girls’ locker room

[Darkhorse]

Yes.

Why? If they look so much like men (beard, etc.) who would know?

 

[Ana the Ist]

That kids will disagree with whom their parents disagree with.

I don't think that's a fair assumption. Plenty of kids rebel against their parents' values without any regard for what they are.

You seem to be trying to negate this girl's statements about how this incident made her feel.

How does this in any way relate to the previous points you raised? You claim that people will freak out if someone goes into the bathroom that is not their sex. I give anecdotal evidence that this is wrong and suddenly we are discussing two guys raping women?

I fixed that for you...

How does it relate? As you may recall, a guy witnessed one of the men going into the women's restroom and reported it.

Why did he report it? Because of those cultural norms that you believe should be changed. In your opinion, he shouldn't have jumped to any conclusion other than "that person needs to use the restroom"....and that girl's sexual assault would have certainly gone on much longer or escalated to rape.

You want to change those norms so that the witness sees nothing unusual about men entering the women's restroom.

You said we utilize restrooms based on secondary sex characteristics. So if a woman has a beard she should use the men's room and if a man has breasts he should use the womens.

I said "characteristics"....not a single characteristic.

Yes. Do you have any credible evidence that allowing transgender people to us the restroom of their gender has any impact on sexual assault statistics?

No....obviously, I'd need data to do that.

Lemme ask you....what's wrong with trans people simply using the restroom that coincides with their sex at birth?

 

[FireDragon76]

Why? If they look so much like men (beard, etc.) who would know?

Transwomen don't typically have beards.


FYI, this is a transwoman, Carmen Carrera (a model and actress):

 

[Darkhorse]

Transwomen don't typically have beards.


FYI, this is a transwoman, Carmen Carrera (a model and actress):

Sorry - I get dizzy and lost sometimes with all the he/she/he/she nonsense.

 

[Pommer]

Sorry - I get dizzy and lost sometimes with all the he/she/he/she nonsense.

It’s “nonsense” to you in the same way that drugs to treat multiple-sclerosis are “nonsense” to me. Neither me nor mine has MS so that anything that goes beyond a simple description of the condition begins to sound confusing.
But it’s important to sufferers of MS, and I can empathize with them.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Yes.

Well then, by that logic, women....who are physically smaller and weaker on average...are particularly vulnerable to men allowed in the women's restroom.

You've got a choice between protecting half the population from being put into a vulnerable situation, or a very tiny number of people.

Which would you think makes the most sense?

 

[rjs330]

Some people aren't comfortable around those with skin conditions or amputees. Why should they be made uncomfortable to have to accommodate sharing their space with people who are clearly out of the ordinary?

If you can't see the difference between skin conditions and getting naked with a member if the opposite sex then there is nothing that can be said to give you pause.

 

[rjs330]

Then perhaps that's their problem. Why is it the school's job to coddle those with tender sensibilities? People on the right are quick to throw around the word "snowflake" until it most applies to them.

I mean... the whole thing about a locker room is that you are getting naked in front of strangers. When I was a kid that bugged me enough, I don't think somebody having the "wrong bits" would have really added to that in a significant way (if anything, it's probably much more ackward for the trans person). Luckily, the schools I went to did not require showers and had minimal P.E. programs.

I hope you are not really equating freedom of speech with forcing people to.get naked with members of the opposite sex.

 

[FireDragon76]

Sorry - I get dizzy and lost sometimes with all the he/she/he/she nonsense.

That's OK, I was confused a bit at first, also. The label "transwoman" is trying to be respectful of their gender identity while acknowledging their trans history.

Another term used is mtf (male-to-female), but that's potentially a crude way to put it.

 

[Darkhorse]

It’s “nonsense” to you in the same way that drugs to treat multiple-sclerosis are “nonsense” to me. Neither me nor mine has MS so that anything that goes beyond a simple description of the condition begins to sound confusing.
But it’s important to sufferers of MS, and I can empathize with them.

Drugs I understand.

People pretending or believing they're the opposite sex - not so much.

 

[rjs330]

It is when someone feels that the sex of the body they inhabit is wrong. It is the technical term for what a Transgender person experiences.

That is a sad and tragic situation. Just as tragic as any other mental illnesses. People who suffer under these conditions need help. There are any number of reasons people suffer mental illness. I really struggle with kids in this condition. Teens are notorious for trying to find themselves. They try all kinds of things to try and make themselves happy. Many are not happy in their own skin. They think then doing something or being someone else will make them happy. Yet when they do try something else they are just as miserable as they were before. I have a friend who has a daughter going through this.

 

[FireDragon76]

It’s “nonsense” to you in the same way that drugs to treat multiple-sclerosis are “nonsense” to me. Neither me nor mine has MS so that anything that goes beyond a simple description of the condition begins to sound confusing.
But it’s important to sufferers of MS, and I can empathize with them.

Medicine is about helping people, not judging them. The only reason TS's make people uncomfortable and people are against it is because they are insecure in their own gender identity and they feel like they need some external, universal, absolute standard to define who they are. But it's important for people to not make their problems, other peoples problems- that's not right or fair.

 

[FireDragon76]

That is a sad and tragic situation. Just as tragic as any other mental illnesses. People who suffer under these conditions need help. There are any number of reasons people suffer mental illness. I really struggle with kids in this condition. Teens are notorious for trying to find themselves. They try all kinds of things to try and make themselves happy. Many are not happy in their own skin. They think then doing something or being someone else will make them happy. Yet when they do try something else they are just as miserable as they were before. I have a friend who has a daughter going through this.

Being transsexual is not in itself considered a mental illness by medical professionals. So you are basically talking pseudoscience when you use terms like "mental illness" in this manner.

 

[Belk]

I don't think that's a fair assumption. Plenty of kids rebel against their parents' values without any regard for what they are.

You seem to be trying to negate this girl's statements about how this incident made her feel.

No, just pointing out that kids generally follow the teachings of their parents. That is why people tend to follow the same religious ideas as their family.

I fixed that for you...

Thank you.

How does it relate? As you may recall, a guy witnessed one of the men going into the women's restroom and reported it.

Why did he report it? Because of those cultural norms that you believe should be changed. In your opinion, he shouldn't have jumped to any conclusion other than "that person needs to use the restroom"....and that girl's sexual assault would have certainly gone on much longer or escalated to rape.

You want to change those norms so that the witness sees nothing unusual about men entering the women's restroom.

So, let us just for a minute stipulate that everything you claim here is correct. Let us say that the only reason this guy reported this was the cultural norm was broken by a man going into a woman's bathroom. Lets assume that men follow women into the bathroom to assault them with enough frequency that this is a legitimate worry.


Trans men present as men. Trans women present as women. Since it is a women going into a woman's bathroom how is that in any way changed by allowing this? In point of fact you are the one asking us to force someone who looks like a man to go into the woman's bathroom. How is this not an argument against your own position?

I said "characteristics"....not a single characteristic.

Oh? How many do they need to qualify?

No....obviously, I'd need data to do that.

Lemme ask you....what's wrong with trans people simply using the restroom that coincides with their sex at birth?

It is an issue of safety. Trans people are more likely to be assaulted and killed. A big part of transgender safety is blending in. That is why the y wish to use a bathroom that corresponds with the gender they present as.

 

[Belk]

That is a sad and tragic situation. Just as tragic as any other mental illnesses. People who suffer under these conditions need help. There are any number of reasons people suffer mental illness. I really struggle with kids in this condition. Teens are notorious for trying to find themselves. They try all kinds of things to try and make themselves happy. Many are not happy in their own skin. They think then doing something or being someone else will make them happy. Yet when they do try something else they are just as miserable as they were before. I have a friend who has a daughter going through this.

The experts do not agree that it is a mental illness.

The diagnostic label gender identity disorder (GID) was used by the DSM until its reclassification as gender dysphoria in 2013, with the release of the DSM-5. The diagnosis was reclassified to better align it with medical understanding of the condition and to remove the stigma associated with the term disorder.[5][6] The American Psychiatric Association, publisher of the DSM-5, stated that gender nonconformity is not the same thing as gender dysphoria,[7] and that "gender nonconformity is not in itself a mental disorder.

Gender dysphoria - Wikipedia


The experts have found that the best treatment in some cases is to alter primary and secondary sex characteristics

.

 

[Ana the Ist]

That's OK, I was confused a bit at first, also. The label "transwoman" is trying to be respectful of their gender identity while acknowledging their trans history.

Another term used is mtf (male-to-female), but that's potentially a crude way to put it.

I don't recall the article ever mentioning how he self identifies. As such, I see no problem with whatever pronouns someone uses.

 

[DaisyDay]

If you can't see the difference between skin conditions and getting naked with a member if the opposite sex then there is nothing that can be said to give you pause.

Oh, I can see the difference between skin conditions and getting naked. I'm personally uncomfortable with both (my own, not other people's so much). I don't think of trans-women and cis-women as opposite, nor do I stare at the crotches of people in various stages of undress to determine who is what.

There is plenty said, some of it by you, which gives me pause so obviously you can not speak for me on that. I'm not sure why you would even try when you could just ask.

 

[hislegacy]

Question:

The liberal's have been promoting "safe spaces" for a couple years now. But do not consider dressing rooms and bathrooms "safe spaces" for people of a particular sexual orientation that feel intimidated and threatened?

Do heterosexuals have the same rights to safety that others do or not?

 

[Pommer]

Question:

The liberal's have been promoting "safe spaces" for a couple years now. But do not consider dressing rooms and bathrooms "safe spaces" for people of a particular sexual orientation that feel intimidated and threatened?

Do heterosexuals have the same rights to safety that others do or not?

You need a nomenclature update.

Cis-male= someone born with apparently male genitalia and who is fine with that
Cis-female=someone born with apparently female genitalia and who is fine with that

Trans-man=a person who was born with apparently female genitalia who finds this disconcerting as their brains are wired to expect to see a penis in the mirror

Trans-woman= a person who was born with apparently male genitalia who finds this disconcerting as their brains are wired to expect to see a vagina in the mirror

None of these speaks to a person’s sexual orientation, that is, to what sex one is attracted to sexually.

 

[hislegacy]

You need a nomenclature update.

Cis-male= someone born with apparently male genitalia and who is fine with that
Cis-female=someone born with apparently female genitalia and who is fine with that

Trans-man=a person who was born with apparently female genitalia who finds this disconcerting as their brains are wired to expect to see a penis in the mirror

Trans-woman= a person who was born with apparently male genitalia who finds this disconcerting as their brains are wired to expect to see a vagina in the mirror

None of these speaks to a person’s sexual orientation, that is, to what sex one is attracted to sexually.

No I do not

Male - has male sexual organs
Female - has female sexual organs
Hermaphrodite - has both male and female sexual organs.

Since it was completely ignored:
I will ask again:

Do heterosexuals have the same rights to safety that others do or not?