Fellow liberals, why do we defend Islam?

Aryeh Jay

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They may have loved this country, and fought for it, but at the end of the day, they believe in Islamic law and rule. It's part of being a Muslim. One must follow all things outlined in the Quran and Hadith, and one of those things is Islamic law.

If Muslims ever make up more than 60-70% of this nation's population, we will have Islamic rule.

Turkey is 97% Muslim and they aren’t under the scary Islamic law.
 
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Aryeh Jay

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The Catholics that I know believe in and follow Cannon Law and the Jews that I know believe in and follow Jewish Law, but allowing Muslims to follow Islamic Law is bad to you. There are plenty of countries that will allow you to infringe on the religious liberty of people, but this is not one of them.
 
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Sm412

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Turkey is 97% Muslim and they aren’t under the scary Islamic law.

You chose the most westernized ME country.

Turkey is moving closer to Islamic law, so....

It will happen anywhere Muslims hold any significant political power. They ALL believe in Islamic law. To be a Muslim, you MUST. It's part of the religion; a huge part. Go find out for yourself.

This is what I'm talking about. Liberals adamantly defending a religion that is not only antithetical to liberalism, but antithetical to American culture, customs, and values as a whole. It's not the differing culture and belief system that bothers me, it's their full intention of pushing that culture and belief system onto the rest of us. Which they will do given the chance. Make no mistake. They believe such action is sanctioned by God.
 
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SolomonVII

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When it comes to any group, individuals vary. There is compulsion in every Othodoxy, every official system that has access to carrots and sticks.
But individuals vary.
The problem with Identity politics is that Linda Sarsour ends up speaking for the Identity, and not Hirsi Ali.
The point is, that Hirsi Ali exists. Linda Sarsour speaks against her, not for her.
My liberalism errs on the side of individuals.
Linda Sarsour is fighting for Islamic Orthodoxy to be maintained and expanded. This is the ‘ plurality’ with dhimmitude as the goal for those who do not exist.
The lesson from Protestant history is that once the Orthodoxy is no longer in a positon of carrots and sticks, people’s spiritual path is myriad. ‘Protestantism is 10000 denominations’, or ‘everyone is their own pope’ is how Catholic apologists describe it.
 
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SolomonVII

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Ultimately, immigration is an issue of demographics, more than Merkel or liberal policy. There will be pressure with or without a Wall, or mining races for votes.
There is every possibility that there could be 1000000 Muslim denominations too in a pluralistic West.

Hirsi Ali is under protection. Linda Sarsour is not. How do we even know what Muslims believe, as long as they are subjects of the same people with sticks?
 
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Shawn Stuart

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Conservatives definitely murder babies. They just do it with bombs and to people you don't like.

100,000 innocent men, women, and children died as a result of the Iraq war, a war conservatives whole heartedly supported.

How does that compare to the 60 million innocent children who have died from abortion?
 
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Tolworth John

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So liberals don't typically espouse the ministries Jesus performed
As far as theology is concerned 'liberals are those who deny the miraculus or the relevence of the bible to life today eg acceptance of a homosexual life style.

Matt 7: 21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

We all need to examine ourselves to see whether we are following our idea of Christianity or what the bible teaches is Christianity.
 
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A_Thinker

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As far as theology is concerned 'liberals are those who deny the miraculus or the relevence of the bible to life today eg acceptance of a homosexual life style.

Matt 7: 21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

We all need to examine ourselves to see whether we are following our idea of Christianity or what the bible teaches is Christianity.

i don't think that the O.P. was speaking of liberal theology ...
 
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Sm412

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How does that compare to the 60 million innocent children who have died from abortion?

It doesn't *compare,* my only point is if you sanction one and condemn another, you are a hypocrite. If you're pro-life, put your money where your mouth is and be pro-life on ALL matters; healthcare, foreign policy/war, welfare, asylum.

Frankly, if you force a woman to give birth, but take away the public assistance that would help her during and after the pregnancy, you are a hypocrite. If you save babies from abortion but promote war and bombing civilian populated areas, you're a hypocrite. You aren't pro-life, you're pro-birth.

Not sure why "pro-life" only applies to the unborn. The born are just as deserving of life, are they not?
 
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Sm412

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As far as theology is concerned 'liberals are those who deny the miraculus or the relevence of the bible to life today eg acceptance of a homosexual life style.

Matt 7: 21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

We all need to examine ourselves to see whether we are following our idea of Christianity or what the bible teaches is Christianity.

So I must be conservative because gays? Gotcha.

I don't remember Jesus saying anything about homosexuality. I do remember a lot about "love thy neighbor" "judge not, lest ye be judged" and "let he who is without sin cast the first stone"

Oh, and a few verses praising the poor and cautioning against the worship of money. And a little bit of the rich selling their possessions and giving the proceeds to the needy.

Although there was one verse, "Cut ye taxes on the rich, for they are the job creators. Cut thine programs for thy poor, for they are lazy moochers. Funnel thine nation's wealth into the pockets of the wealthy, for blessed are the rich. They shall inherit the earth. Worship the dollar"
2 Notinthebiblethians 20:36

It is conservatives who have lost sight of what Christianity really is.
 
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Sm412

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Honest question: of all the stuff in the OT that NOBODY follows because it's impractical, irrelevant, or just plain morally obscene (Deuteronomy 22:28-29), why is it the few passages about gays that we're so rigid, inflexible, and insufferably self-righteous about, to the point where we're oppressive and hostile?
 
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Zoii

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I will defend anyone who is being attacked, purely on the basis of their religion.

Equally I will confront anyone who abuses human rights, and uses their religion as a weapon against anyone; especially women. That goes for Islam and Christianity.
 
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Shawn Stuart

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It doesn't *compare,* my only point is if you sanction one and condemn another, you are a hypocrite. If you're pro-life, put your money where your mouth is and be pro-life on ALL matters; healthcare, foreign policy/war, welfare, asylum.

Frankly, if you force a woman to give birth, but take away the public assistance that would help her during and after the pregnancy, you are a hypocrite. If you save babies from abortion but promote war and bombing civilian populated areas, you're a hypocrite. You aren't pro-life, you're pro-birth.

Not sure why "pro-life" only applies to the unborn. The born are just as deserving of life, are they not?

As far as assistantance goes food stamps are readily available. It’s not the job of the government to be a nanny state and provide everything for everyone from cradle to grave.

As far as war goes it is a necessary evil at times.
 
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Sm412

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As far as assistantance goes food stamps are readily available. It’s not the job of the government to be a nanny state and provide everything for everyone from cradle to grave.

As far as war goes it is a necessary evil at times.

Again, you're not pro-life. Only anti-abortion.

If war is a necessary evil at times, could abortion not also be a necessary evil at times? War destroys lives and should be avoided at all costs, is my point. It should not be clamored for and rabidly supported, as was the case in Iraq. You cannot bomb civilian populated areas and proclaim it "necessary," while denying women the right to abortion in all cases. You'd be a hypocrite.

You're right, people should work to take care of themselves. However, there are situations in which people need assistance, ESPECIALLY mothers. A teenage mother unable to afford the expense of having a baby is entitled to assistance should you force her to have that baby. To deny her that is inhuman and un-Christian.

You are NOT pro-life.
 
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Sm412

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As far as assistantance goes food stamps are readily available. It’s not the job of the government to be a nanny state and provide everything for everyone from cradle to grave.

As far as war goes it is a necessary evil at times.

I'll say it again: if you are pro-life, put your money where your mouth is and be pro-life, not just on matters of abortion, but on all matter that affect human life.
 
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Shawn Stuart

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A teenage mother unable to afford the expense of having a baby is entitled to assistance should you force her to have that baby. To deny her that is inhuman and un-Christian.

She’s entitled to absolutely nothing. Jesus stated that the poor you will always have with you. He never mandated that the government be everyone’s provider.
 
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