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Featured Feds bring first-ever charges against 'birth tourism' scheme

Discussion in 'Current News & Events' started by redleghunter, Feb 9, 2019.

  1. tulc

    tulc loves "SO'S YER MOM!! posts!

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    I'll just leave this here:
    https://www.vox.com/2018/7/23/17595754/birthright-citizenship-trump-14th-amendment-executive-order
    and say, this might be a good article to read about that very subject. :wave:
    tulc(hopes it helps) :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
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  2. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    This amounts to fraud.
     
  3. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    Except if born due to a botched abortion.
     
  4. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    They are if they stay past their visa which these women are and intentionally do.
     
  5. His student

    His student Well-Known Member

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    Of course not - unless of course they lied in some way on their visa application or overstay their visa.:)
    It's always been around in every country and every culture. That includes the U.S.

    I sure hope I never catch it. Do you know someone here in particular who has it?
     
  6. His student

    His student Well-Known Member

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    I hope you will be good to your word and leave it there.

    I won't get into an internet liberal vs. conservative cut and paste war with you.

    You are simply wrong when it comes to the intent of the 14th Amendment and all Constitutional scholars and students of history know it.

    We have ample evidence recorded in the words of those involved in it's creation as to intent.
     
  7. archer75

    archer75 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Maybe we can find some people who have committed treason and can be stripped of their citizenship to make up for these crazy citizen babies...
     
  8. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    If a killer wants to kill, he doesn't need a gun.
     
  9. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    Get over it! No one here to my knowledge has said they are white supremacists. I'm extremely offended just as I am about racism! My family has so many races and nationalities you wouldn't believe it if I told you!
     
  10. tulc

    tulc loves "SO'S YER MOM!! posts!

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    It does make it easier though. :wave:
    tulc(thought that should be pointed out) :)
     
  11. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    And laws don't stop criminals from having guns. People get strangled, stabbed, poisoned, pushed over cliffs, smothered, drowned, beaten with baseball bats, having their cars tampered with, killed by homemade bombs, driven over by automobiles, etc.
    I must have left something out.
     
  12. tulc

    tulc loves "SO'S YER MOM!! posts!

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    Okay, let me look (looks up) Yep, it's still there. :wave:

    I guess not, since I'm the only one who provided support for what he thinks. :)


    ...all of them? That seems...unlikely given how it's been understood for many years now. and the people quoted in the link I provided. :sorry:

    Did I miss where you provided any evidence let alone ample evidence? That's sort of how it works in these threads. ;)
    tulc(hopes that helps) :coffee:
     
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  13. tulc

    tulc loves "SO'S YER MOM!! posts!

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    ...then why bother having any laws at all? :scratch:
    tulc(would have thought that was the obvious conclusion to be drawn from that argument) :wave:
     
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  14. Earth18

    Earth18 Seeking

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    I am against building that dumb wall but I am not ok with this for so many reasons. Balance is definitely key in the human existence. I do believe Jesus would bless this country and uphold our laws if we Christians would put pressure on our 1% to end slave labor. China abuses its people to make the computers and phones you and I are on this very moment to post comments here. Just a thought...
     
  15. His student

    His student Well-Known Member

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    I was hoping that you were an honest man of your word rather than a troll.
    I was assuming that the people interested knew how to internet search and would do so if they wanted to follow up.

    But you are right. I should have posted something here fort hose who do not have the skills or do not have the time for searches.

    Original Intent Treatise - 14th Amendment Clarified

    Original Intent Treatise - Constitutions

    Original Intent Treatise - Constitutions

    It has indeed been understood wrongly for many years now - ever since liberals have dishonestly pursued this agenda (and other figments of liberal thought like so called "abortion rights" as well) in the court of public opinion.

    The article you provided itself admits that the understanding as currently practiced is a “century-old interpretation of the 14th Amendment” and not the original intent of the amendment.

    The article very quickly falls back on typical liberal emotional charges of “xenophobia”, No surprise there.

    It also inadvertently lays out the chief difference in their approach to the subject between conservative thinkers and knee jerk liberals when it says:

    “The arguments made in favor of ending birthright citizenship are arguments about the text of the Constitution, American history, and the rule of law — a comfortable register for elite conservative thinkers to speak in. But its urgency as an issue relies on fears about irreversible cultural change — that continuing to grant birthright citizenship will result in the loss of something irreducibly American. That’s exactly the undercurrent that the left associates with restrictionism itself — and makes liberals especially attuned to any attack on birthright citizenship, even as the issue makes conservatives wary.”

    The article you provided include no statements related to original intend. The quotes provided are from some time after the writing and adoption of the amendment. For instance:

    “At first, the Supreme Court interpreted the citizenship clause narrowly; in 1873, for example, it clarified that it did not apply to children of “citizens or subjects of foreign States” and include comments about the even later 1894 Wong Kim decision (where the parents of the plaintiff were U.S. citizens not illegal aliens as the situation we encounter now in the U.S.

    The article even clearly admits and states that “The Supreme Court hasn’t explicitly ruled that the children of unauthorized immigrants are US citizens.”

    Interestingly the article says “Looking to historical texts, in the originalist tradition, isn’t terribly helpful because Congress appears to have been split on what “jurisdiction” meant.” I would remind you that the opinion of any current congress has no bearing on the situation since the opinion of the Constitutionally separate Supreme Court is what matters in this situation.

    In the article - they make the bold statement that, “Even if the Supreme Court has never explicitly said that US-born children of unauthorized immigrants are birthright citizens, they currently are — they’re covered by extension by the precedent in Wong Kim Ark.” I would remind them of the obvious point that Wong Kim Ark was not the offspring of illegal non citizens of the United States and has no bearing on the situation we are currently facing.

    Well – enough of this. The article you refer to is there for all to carve and digest if they want to.

    I’ll just state again the obvious fact that liberals must fall back to ad hominem attacks and emotional appeal and are sorely lacking when the conversation touches on “original intent” should be the deliberation of any Supreme court decision.

    That’s all I have time for now. I’ll leave you to the last word if you must (even though you promised before that the posting of the article you provided would be your last word and backed out on that).

    I’m hoping that those with a truly open mind and an interest in the subject will pursue this subject for themselves.
     
  16. tulc

    tulc loves "SO'S YER MOM!! posts!

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    I haven't been dishonest so far, but it does seem a little...odd that you claim "liberals must fall back to ad hominem attacks" I might point out I'm not the one calling people "trolls or dishonest" in this thread. :)

    ...you wanted other people to prove your point? I don't think that's how it works.

    Or for the simple fact that it's your job to support your argument. :wave:



    So I was right, it isn't "all Constitutional scholars and students of history know it.". Thanks for admitting it. :)

    Uhmm...you kind of gloss over the whole point of Wong Kim Ark, which was the Chinese at that point weren't permitted to even be US citizens. :sorry:

    I agree. People should look at it and come to their own conclusions, that's why people should provide support for the things they say. :)

    There's a lot of irony in that post. ;)

    Oh dear, I think you may have misunderstood something I said in one of my posts if you think that's what I said. I've literally never done one of those posts in my life. :wave:

    On that we can agree. :oldthumbsup:
    tulc(hasn't been called a "troll" for a few days now, so thanks for that) :swoon:
     
  17. His student

    His student Well-Known Member

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    My apologies sir!

    I took this post to mean that you were just letting this be your last word on the subject and I've referred to that view of the post a couple of times now.

    In review now - I see that it could have been meant in a different way than I took it. Troll or not :) - my apologies again for saying that you have been going back on your word. Such charges by me were uncalled for.
     
  18. tulc

    tulc loves "SO'S YER MOM!! posts!

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    No harm, no foul! And I apologize for not being more clear in my post! :wave:
    tulc(is raising this cup of coffee to you!) :coffee:
     
  19. His student

    His student Well-Known Member

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    Let's really make up.

    You vote for Donald Trump when he runs in 2020 and I'll consider voting for Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez if she runs in 2032 after she finishes puberty.
     
  20. JCFantasy23

    JCFantasy23 In a Kingdom by the Sea. Staff Member Administrator Supporter CF Senior Ambassador Angels Team

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    This is sad. Considering this is being done with Chinese women and their circumstances in their own country, I understand. They are paying a lot of money and risk in order to let their children live. China's one child policy, and the outlook of some in control over there if that child is born a female (many are killed), makes these valid fears.

    The mothers are risking much to ensure the child survives and has a chance over here. More than anything, I find it a courageous and selfless move.
     
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