Federal Law Enforcement Use Unmarked Vehicles To Grab Protesters Off Portland Streets

[Eight Foot Manchild]

I understand where you're going. This crowd doesn't want compromise they want capitulation.

All "crowds" want that. Compromise is the outcome.

No… Honestly, no, I don't. I want them stopped dead in their tracks without accomplishing a single one of their demands. Full stop. Complete denial, and banishment to the chronicles of history.

So, you are for further escalation. OK. Then you're not allowed to act surprised when the situation continues to build that way, along the same path it has tread hundreds of times before throughout history, and someone blows up one of these vans with an IED, or guns down the federal officers. If you knowingly choose the path of violence, you bereave yourself of the right to be shocked by it.

Antifa has been around since like the 1930's. And they most certainty are organized.

I know that. And I didn't say they weren't organized. I said there is no organization called "antifa". They are de-centralized by design.

I think the goal is to make stop.

Then they are in the process of failing miserably at it. The crowds in downtown Portland have gotten bigger, not smaller, and if this cycle of escalation continues, they are going to get more violent.

How that is achieved is unknown at this point.

No, it is not "unknown". We have thousands of years of history of civil unrest at our disposal. There is a literal field manual on the subject. Successful de-escalation tactics are well known. The tactics that fail and inevitably lead to more unrest - such as those being deployed in Portland - are well known.

So again, either the people calling the shots are all blithering idiots, like Trump, or de-escalation is not the goal.

 

[LostMarbels]

Fair enough, but are you sure that power will not turn on you?

Oh, it will eventually. Even if I believe Trump will use it to help America. I still believe no president should have that much power. And if he doesn't get rid of it, the next president to follow has it as well.

 

[LostMarbels]

All "crowds" want that. Compromise is the outcome.

Of only one side... what is ANTIFA willing to concede?

 

[Eight Foot Manchild]

Of only one side... what is ANTIFA willing to concede?

For the second time, this imaginary entity called "antifa" is not who you'd be bringing to the table in the first place.

 

[LostMarbels]

So, you are for further escalation. OK. Then you're not allowed to act surprised when the situation continues to build that way, along the same path it has tread hundreds of times before through out history, and someone blows up one of these vans with an IED, or guns down the federal officers. If you knowingly choose the path of violence, you bereave yourself of the right to be shocked by it.

As I have admitted. That is my own bad attitude. I know most people here on the boards have no issues, but Im not perfect, and I am pretty darn peeved at these people.

I edited this in right after I posted the response. You might have missed it:

They have lost that respect with me. And honestly it is the wrong attitude for me to have. Im human, and they have pushed too far.

Then they are in the process of failing miserably at it. The crowds in downtown Portland have gotten bigger, not smaller, and if this cycle of escalation continues, they are going to get more violent.

My BIGGEST issue is I'm a fighter. I will not start something and will shut my mouth and walk away. They can run their mouths all day long. But I am at the point, I fear for my safety, and for my families safety. Not anger, genuine concern, and that is how I view the situation. They need to be shut down. Just being real.

So again, either the people calling the shots are all blithering idiots, like Trump, or de-escalation is not the goal.

Well it's like the third time you brought up Trump in a derogatory manner... maybe de-escalation isn't the goal. Maybe I'm not the only one that has something to get off their chest.

 

[LostMarbels]

For the second time, this imaginary entity called "antifa" is not who you'd be bringing to the table in the first place.

You will get over it eventually.

What is ANTIFA willing to concede?

 

[Aryeh Jay]

It is really simple, if you don’t want to be abducted and beaten by Trumps masked and unnamed Thugs, then stay off the streets. Trump and his Republican supporters will be happy if you do.

 

[LostMarbels]

It is really simple, if you don’t want to be abducted and beaten by Trumps masked and unnamed Thugs, then stay off the streets. Trump and his Republican supporters will be happy if you do.

How long did people think this was going to continue before people had enough. Just stop committing crimes is all people ask. Walk the streets. Actually protest. Just stop all the rioting.

 

[Speedwell]

My BIGGEST issue is I'm a fighter. I will not start something and will shut my mouth and walk away. They can run their mouths all day long. But I am at the point, I fear for my safety, and for my families safety. Not anger, genuine concern, and that is how I view the situation. They need to be shut down. Just being real.

I'm more afraid of people like you. Not you specifically, but people with whacko conspiracy theories about "The Left"--and guns.

 

[Eight Foot Manchild]

As I have admitted. That is my own bad attitude.

Maybe you should seriously seek to change that about yourself.

Therapy is very helpful, and nothing to be ashamed of. I've been through it myself.

My BIGGEST issue is I'm a fighter. I will not start something and will shut my mouth and walk away. They can run their mouths all day long. But I am at the point, I fear for my safety, and for my families safety. Not anger, genuine concern, and that is how I view the situation. They need to be shut down. Just being real.

I want the situation to end, too. That is why I am opposed to the use of tactics that are one hundred percent guaranteed to do nothing but prolong and escalate it.

Why aren't you?

What is ANTIFA willing to concede?

An entity has to exist first, in order to be negotiated with. You seem to think it does exist, so you tell me.

And when you're done, you can explain how it's in any way relevant to the subject of criminal justice reform.

 

[LostMarbels]

I'm more afraid of people like you. Not you specifically, but people with whacko conspiracy theories about "The Left"--and guns.

What did people think all the mockery, threats, violence, shaming and ridicule was going to achieve? Did they think life was like an Xbox game? Where they can talk all the trash they wanted behind a TV screen?

People have had enough, and they keep pushing. Hence, people are happy to see them snatched up off the streets and removed.

 

[LostMarbels]

Maybe you should seriously seek to change that about yourself.

Therapy is very helpful, and nothing to be ashamed of. I've been through it myself.

I have more issues than time magazine my friend. I am more like House or Dr Strange than anything. I have a hard time relating to people if you haven't noticed. And most emotion is a mystery to me.

I want the situation to end, too. That is why I am opposed to the use of tactics that are one hundred percent guaranteed to do nothing but prolong and escalate it.

Why aren't you?

I have already told you. Self-preservation. I am at the point they are no longer a concern of mine in the realm of fairness or cohabitation. They are a threat. I want them gone.

explain how it's in anyway relevant to the subject of criminal justice reform.

Because you keep saying things need to be negotiated. With whom may I ask then?

 

[Paulos23]

I see it more as a contest between egos. Who can push who the furthest... Democratic socialist on one side, Trump on the other. I don't see a positive outcome TBH. Do you see an out?

If both sides talk and compromise. That is how most of American politics has been done. Lately, one side has been trying to get it all their way because they feel they are losing, and it is leading to this result.

 

[Eight Foot Manchild]

I want them gone.

The tactics you are speaking in defense of will multiply their numbers, and radicalize those numbers as well. This is not hypothetical. This is the entire history of civil unrest, playing out as it always has. You can either make it better, or make it worse. You are currently sitting squarely on the side of making it worse.

So, are you sure you want them gone? Or are you just engaging in vacuous, moralistic bloviating? I hope you take time to really think about that. Because if you think what's happening in Portland is already "too far", you know nothing of history, and boy are you in for a rude awakening.

Because you keep saying things need to be negotiated

For the third time, not with an imaginary entity called "antifa", but with the actual organizers who began the protests for police reform in Portland. I do not know their names or organizations off hand, but such things are very easy to find.

 

[LostMarbels]

For the third time, not with an imaginary entity called "antifa",

I will speak whatever term I so choose, and you will never deter it… Am I clear about ANTIFA? Keep counting... all you want...

Correcting me isn't an issue, but counting at me like you're scolding a child? Get over yourself.

What is ANTIFA willing to concede?

but with the actual organizers who began the protests for police reform in Portland. I do not know their names off hand, but such things are very easy to find.

Me personally, I do not believe it would even be fruitful. I have not heard a single issue of theirs I agree with or want implemented.

 

[LostMarbels]

The tactics you are speaking in defense of will multiply their numbers, and radicalize those numbers as well. This is not hypothetical. This is the entire history of civil unrest, playing out as it always has. You can either make it better, or make it worse. You are currently sitting squarely on the side of making it worse.

Well then that just might be how it has to go down. I'm not just rolling over and letting them pet my belly.

So, are you sure you want them gone?

Yes. Are you inferring some nefarious deeds or something? I don't want them dead… disappeared, or in some interments camp. I want them gone. Dealt with. Arrested or dissolved... 'gone'. *POOF* gone... no longer playin the fool on our streets.

Or are you just engaging in vacuous, moralistic bloviating?

Nope, I want them gone.

Because if you think what's happening in Portland is already "too far", you know nothing of history, and boy are you in for a rude awakening.

Might be why I say things like I don't see a positive outcome. Just maybe.

 

[Eight Foot Manchild]

I will speak whatever term I so choose

OK. By all means, continue having conversations with your own imagination. I will not be joining you down that path.

Me personally, I do not believe it would even be fruitful. I have not heard a single issue of theirs I agree with or want implemented.

So, you are not only in favor of tactics that will prolong and escalate the situation, you're also opposed to the measures that would de-escalate it.

But at the same time, you claim to want it to end.

Which is it? You can't have both.

I want them gone. Dealt with. Arrested or dissolved... 'gone'. *POOF* gone... no longer playin the fool on our streets.

Magic, in other words. Magic isn't real, so no, that is not an available avenue of exit from this situation. Sorry, but reality doesn't work that way.

 

[Aldebaran]

It is really simple, if you don’t want to be abducted and beaten by Trumps masked and unnamed Thugs, then stay off the streets. Trump and his Republican supporters will be happy if you do.

What if you don't want your business vandalized, looted, or burned down? Who should you depend on for that, and who is supposed to be happy if the riots are allowed to continue? The public servants still haven't stopped the rioters after more than 50 days of rioting in a row.

 

[Aldebaran]

Maybe they thought you would grow a pair and be able to stand up to the kind of invective you routinely dish out.

Why? They obviously aren't growing a pair of their own if they're still offended by Rice Crispies, Aunt Jamima and Uncle Ben. Not to mention the national anthem, the Pilsbury Doughboy, sleep, Mt. Rushmore, brownies, The South, Gone with the Wind, and a host of other things.
Sure, grow a pair....
Set an example instead of being violent over your hurt feelings.

 

[mnorian]

This thread is about the Federal police coming into a city and taking over from local jurisdictions; they were not asked and do not have authority to police a city run by a state government.

In the past federal officers only came into a state by the expressed invitation of the Governor of that state.