February 19th Democratic Debate

[Silmarien]

You missed the point.

Because Mike Bloomberg is economically conservative I don't think just being registered as a Democrat is proof he really is one. He is a centrist. Bernie Sanders OTOH is very much like the progressive liberals and only refused to join the Democratic Party several times because of his hatred of "the establishment."

Are you arguing that Sanders is a Democrat because he's a progressive liberal, whereas Bloomberg is not a Democrat because he's economically conservative? Because the Democratic Party is still predominantly centrist, granted with a growing leftist wing. If one of the two could be branded a non-Democrat, though, it's really Sanders, given how far out in left field he is.

I certainly hope not, or Bloomberg would be as unelectable as Sanders.

Except that Bloomberg is at least as unelectable as Sanders.

 

[GodLovesCats]

Are you arguing that Sanders is a Democrat because he's a progressive liberal, whereas Bloomberg is not a Democrat because he's economically conservative? Because the Democratic Party is still predominantly centrist, granted with a growing leftist wing. If one of the two could be branded a non-Democrat, though, it's really Sanders, given how far out in left field he is.

The Democratic Party is moving left. Most young voters are more liberal than their parents. Sanders knew that and campaigned heavily at colleges. Centrist Democrats are likely to be at least 50 years old.

 

[Silmarien]

The Democratic Party is moving left. Most young voters are more liberal than their parents. Sanders knew that and campaigned heavily at colleges. Centrist Democrats are likely to be at least 50 years old.

The Democratic Party is in open civil war. Even so, Sanders is significantly to the left of virtually all of it. That's not a bad thing, but it does make it hard to declare that centrists are the ones who aren't Democrats.

 

[Fantine]

Bloomberg was a Democrat all his life until he ran for NYC Mayor. There were 17 candidates in the Democratic mayoral primary, and if he ran as a Republican he just had to beat the winner of the Democratic mayoral primary. At some point he changed to an "independent" because he did not run the city any way a Republican would. Two years ago he became a Democrat again.

Bernie isn't a Democrat, either. One reason why the DNC isn't crazy about him.

Bloomberg would want to keep the economy healthy, that's for sure, and he has spent his lifetime doing just that on Wall St. He would probably be more economically conservative than most of the other Democratic candidates...that could, however, endear him to Republicans who are tired of the lies, the emoluments violations, the chaos, the unqualified and sometimes criminal cabinet and staff members Trump assembles, the crudeness, the impulsivity, etc. of the Trump administration. You may feel that the economy is working well, but was there even a soupcon of thought or planning in his wildly impulsive and self serving economic decisions? Once we've poisoned the water, the air, and our food supply through deregulation, how will he realize any more 'boosts' to help us deal with the health problems and pollution his decisions cause?

 

[KCfromNC]

Even in the general, there will be division when taking into consideration how polarizing many of them are:

Bloomberg: A billionaire with a financial advantage--something the party in general frowns on.

Biden: Falling in the polls.

Sanders: To far to the Left for moderates.

All of them tick the box polling most important with voters, though.

 

[Kentonio]

The Democratic Party is in open civil war. Even so, Sanders is significantly to the left of virtually all of it. That's not a bad thing, but it does make it hard to declare that centrists are the ones who aren't Democrats.

The whole argument about who are the real Democrats is kind of dumb anyway really. People keep getting so tied up in the party loyalty thing that they forget what they were actually supposed to be fighting for in the first place. The number of 'liberals' I've heard that are happy to jump from Biden or even Warren to Mike Bloomberg of all people just to stop Bernie Sanders is ridiculous. These are of course the same people who've spent the last 4 years railing against big money in politics and how terrible it is having a racist, misogynistic billionaire in the White House.

 

[Albion]

He was never a Libertarian.
If you want to be elected President you have to run on one of the major tickets.

Bernie was an Independent until he wanted to run for President when he switched to a registered Democrat.
In the 70s he was registered with the Liberty Union party.

...and he formerly was a campaigner worker for -- and also a candidate of -- the Socialist Workers Party, one of the more extreme of those small Socialist Parties.

 

[Fantine]

The whole argument about who are the real Democrats is kind of dumb anyway really. People keep getting so tied up in the party loyalty thing that they forget what they were actually supposed to be fighting for in the first place. The number of 'liberals' I've heard that are happy to jump from Biden or even Warren to Mike Bloomberg of all people just to stop Bernie Sanders is ridiculous. These are of course the same people who've spent the last 4 years railing against big money in politics and how terrible it is having a racist, misogynistic billionaire in the White House.

Everything is relative. During the primaries liberals will choose among the candidates listed. During the general election liberals will choose among the candidates listed. Every Democrat I know would gladly choose any of the primary candidates over Trump. I will strongly support whatever candidate is running against Trump, who, in my view, does not have the character, intelligence, work ethic, generosity of spirit, patriotism, or honesty to work in any branch of government in any capacity.

 

[Silmarien]

Every Democrat I know would gladly choose any of the primary candidates over Trump.

I cannot support Bloomberg after spending four years criticizing Republicans for weakening democratic institutions. His campaign strategy is an existential threat, and there are people who will walk away over it if he's nominated.

 

[Albion]

Even if Bloomberg were to get the nomination and spend a billion dollars on his campaign, it is hard to see how enough people would support such an apparently smug, humorless, elitist as he seems to be.

 

[KCfromNC]

Even if Bloomberg were to get the nomination and spend a billion dollars on his campaign, it is hard to see how enough people would support such an apparently smug, humorless, elitist as he seems to be.

Didn't hurt Donald.

 

[Silmarien]

Didn't hurt Donald.

I was thinking that too, but Trump really isn't an elitist in the same sense. His campaign was/is very populist, whereas Bloomberg's is practically aristocratic.

 

[KCfromNC]

I was thinking that too, but Trump really isn't an elitist in the same sense.

 

[Silmarien]

Yes, but that's not the way he runs his campaign. He's somehow managed to tap into the anti-elitist fervor of his base and build a ton of populist momentum. He's an elitist who has successfully marketed himself as the champion of the common worker against the elites (and the liberals).

Bloomberg's campaign, in contrast, is pretty consciously anti-populist. He doesn't try to portray himself as anything except an elitist, which I think is problematic, given the current climate.

 

[GodLovesCats]

Bloomberg was a Democrat all his life until he ran for NYC Mayor. There were 17 candidates in the Democratic mayoral primary, and if he ran as a Republican he just had to beat the winner of the Democratic mayoral primary.At some point he changed to an "independent" because he did not run the city any way a Republican would. Two years ago he became a Democrat again.

Why would it be necessasry to run for a party nomination if mayor is not a partisan office?

 

[bhsmte]

You mean when he's back to running campaign ads again? That's all he's had so far to get him the rating that he had before the debate. He might want to stick with that. However, it runs counter to the democrat message against "millionaires and billionaires" running the country, so the voters may not be swayed in his direction in November.

Debating is like anything else, when you are out of practice, it typically doesnt go well.

 

[Fantine]

Why would it be necessasry to run for a party nomination if mayor is not a partisan office?

In some small municipalities the mayor is an honorary position. NYC has a population and budget bigger than over 38 states and an economy as large as South Korea's. He is far more like a governor.

 

[Fantine]

I cannot support Bloomberg after spending four years criticizing Republicans for weakening democratic institutions. His campaign strategy is an existential threat, and there are people who will walk away over it if he's nominated.

Anyone who would walk away from the vote over Bloomberg should sit down and read the Mueller Report, the impeachment testimony, and what has happened since.
If he or she is gay, disabled, an ethnic or racial minority, female, a worker, a union member...he or she should consider how Trump courts will decimate their rights.
Do you know that under Republican courts you can be laid off from a job and prevented from getting a similar job because of non-compete clauses? If your employer lays you off, how dare he ruin your future?
So many ways Trump can harm your future...

 

[Silmarien]

Anyone who would walk away from the vote over Bloomberg should sit down and read the Mueller Report, the impeachment testimony, and what has happened since.
If he or she is gay, disabled, an ethnic or racial minority, female, a worker, a union member...he or she should consider how Trump courts will decimate their rights.
Do you know that under Republican courts you can be laid off from a job and prevented from getting a similar job because of non-compete clauses? If your employer lays you off, how dare he ruin your future?
So many ways Trump can harm your future...

Yes, labor is one of the things that I am concerned about, given Bloomberg's longstanding opposition to unions and resistance to labor reform, from raising the minimum wage to mandating paid sick leave. Michael Bloomberg’s Troubling Record on Unions and Workers

Four more years of Trump will hurt, but potentially eight years of Bloomberg at the head of the Democratic Party does not necessarily strike me as a better deal. Given his record, he could very easily save us from Trump, only to put the Democratic Party squarely in the hands of big business and gut attempts at reform from the inside. Between that and the precedent that a successful campaign based around flooding social media with advertisements would set, I'm not even sure I would want him to win the general election at all, so I would stay neutral and vote third party.

 

[GodLovesCats]

The whole argument about who are the real Democrats is kind of dumb anyway really. People keep getting so tied up in the party loyalty thing that they forget what they were actually supposed to be fighting for in the first place. The number of 'liberals' I've heard that are happy to jump from Biden or even Warren to Mike Bloomberg of all people just to stop Bernie Sanders is ridiculous. These are of course the same people who've spent the last 4 years railing against big money in politics and how terrible it is having a racist, misogynistic billionaire in the White House.

That describes Mike Bloomberg.