FBI Arrests 87-Year-Old Pro-Life Concentration Camp Survivor for Peacefully Protesting Abortion

Ignatius the Kiwi

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You claimed that the FBI was targetting pro life people. What should they have done in this case?

Nothing. The FBI should not be involved. If you believe the FBI should be involved in federal level crime, no matter how minor, well, I don't think I could convince you otherwise that it would a bad idea.
 
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FireDragon76

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Nothing. The FBI should not be involved. If you believe the FBI should be involved in federal level crime, no matter how minor, well, I don't think I could convince you otherwise that it would a bad idea.

It's not a minor crime. Blocking access to a building to obtain medical services is not a triviality.
 
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Ignatius the Kiwi

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It's not a minor crime. Blocking access to a building to obtain medical services is not a triviality.

Ah, there we fundamentally differ over what is a 'medical service.' Again, we're simply not going to agree here. The FBI must be destroyed, the right in America should make this a policy going forward.

BTW, do you still contend that Joe Biden is a faithful Catholic despite him consistently advocating against Catholic positions in his political life?
 
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Hank77

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They were a constituency, if he were to allow the sort of targeting of pro-lifers that we are seeing here by the FBI under Joe,
The FACE Act became law in 1994. It was because of violent pro-lifers that the law was necessary. I haven't heard of it being used unless there is violence or extreme interference for the clinic and/or patients.

Law and order people, don't break the law.
 
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Bradskii

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So in this case, because of your personal opinion on the legitimacy of US law, you would want the people who were occupying the abortion clinic to be left to do whatever they wanted. You'd want the FBI not to do their job in this specific case.

Maybe you think that's how law enforcement works. Arrest people who are breaking the law - unless you disagree with it. In which case, let the law breakers do what they want.

Me, I'd start to look at how the law could be changed. But seeing as two Republican admins haven't bothered I wouldn't spend too much time in bothering. In the meantime, the Feds will target law breakers. Including pro life people IF they break the law. But not because they are pro life.

I hope that's clear.
 
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Ignatius the Kiwi

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The FACE Act became law in 1994. It was because of violent pro-lifers that the law was necessary. I haven't heard of it being used unless there is violence or extreme interference for the clinic and/or patients.

Law and order people, don't break the law.

Thanks for the history lesson. Though I question the prolife people being arrested at the moment akin to violent extremists who need to serve prison time. I take it you approve of defending the abolition clinics in this manner from any interference from the prolife side?
 
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Ignatius the Kiwi

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So in this case, because of your personal opinion on the legitimacy of US law, you would want the people who were occupying the abortion clinic to be left to do whatever they wanted. You'd want the FBI not to do their job in this specific case.

I say nothing because I believe such cases can and should be handled locally and not be a federal apparatus. It's a consolidation of power and one should be wary of such consolidations and uses of it. Especially as one as sketchy as divisive as the FBI. I see no reason to trust that institution from a conservative perspective. Maybe an establishment conservative perspective, since they are part of the system.
 
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FireDragon76

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Ah, there we fundamentally differ over what is a 'medical service.'

It's a medical service because doctors are instructed in how to perform it at medical colleges.

BTW, do you still contend that Joe Biden is a faithful Catholic despite him consistently advocating against Catholic positions in his political life?

This is untrue. Catholics aren't prohibited from practicing Pro-Choice politics, it is no sin.

And at any rate, your characterization of Biden's politics is wrong. Joe Biden has been a moderate most of his political career when it comes to the "culture wars" and abortion.
 
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Bradskii

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I say nothing because I believe such cases can and should be handled locally and not be a federal apparatus. It's a consolidation of power and one should be wary of such consolidations and uses of it. Especially as one as sketchy as divisive as the FBI. I see no reason to trust that institution from a conservative perspective. Maybe an establishment conservative perspective, since they are part of the system.

But you did say something. That the FBI were targetting pro life people. That is mostrously wrong. And there are no state laws to prevent what happened in the state where this happened. That's why federal laws were required. Otherwise...we just let people do what they want to these clinics?

Maybe that's a better direction you should take. Encourage states themselves to make it illegal to do what this woman was doing.
 
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FireDragon76

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But you did say something. That the FBI were targetting pro life people. That is mostrously wrong.

Indeed. These people weren't targeted for being Pro-Life (which is no crime), but because they engage in coordinated activity to commit federal crimes, like blocking access to medical facilities.
 
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Ignatius the Kiwi

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It's a medical service because doctors are instructed in how to perform it at medical colleges.

By that definition castration is a medical service. Doesn't mean it should be done or advocated for.


This is untrue. Catholics aren't prohibited from practicing Pro-Choice politics, it is no sin.

I didn't mention anything about sin. Only that it wasn't a Catholic thing to do. Joe Biden, by being an advocate of abortion, seeking to extend it, encourages a non-Catholic practice. If he were to be pro-life and his political policy was based on that, he would be more Catholic. In both his politics and his faith.

Also, when you're paying for someone else's sin, like Joe Biden wants to, yes you are sinning.

And at any rate, your characterization of Biden's politics is wrong. Joe Biden has been a moderate most of his political career when it comes to the "culture wars" and abortion.

Moderate most of his political career translates to moving away from his Catholicism. Can you think of one instance where his Catholicism prevented him from following where his party took him? I can't. You say I'm mischaracterizing him, but I'm not. We agree actions speak louder than words right? Joe Biden's support for abortion access and wanting to pay for it out of American tax dollars, indicates to me a sincerely held positive belief about the value of abortion. He holds no personal objection to abortion any more. How can he?
 
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FireDragon76

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I didn't mention anything about sin. Only that it wasn't a Catholic thing to do. Joe Biden, by being an advocate of abortion, seeking to extend it, encourages a non-Catholic practice. If he were to be pro-life and his political policy was based on that, he would be more Catholic. In both his politics and his faith.

Biden advocates for peoples right to choose. Granting someone the freedom to choose is not the same as personal approval of every possible outcome of that freedom.

Also, when you're paying for someone else's sin, like Joe Biden wants to, yes you are sinning.

Abortions are not paid for by the government in the US, and that has been the case since Roe vs. Wade, at least.

Moderate most of his political career translates to moving away from his Catholicism.

That's very insulting and malicilous considering Biden has been regularly attending church for decades and is a Catholic in good standing with his church's (official) hierarchy. His faith no doubt has helped him through many crises during his life, which you may or may not be aware of, such as the tragic death of half his family in an auto accident decades ago, or the more recent death of his son due to brain cancer. He's been a faithful public servant despite these tragedies.

Can you think of one instance where his Catholicism prevented him from following where his party took him? I can't.

The Democrats have always been a political big tent, so your statement is incorrect in its premise. Biden has consistently been a centrist Democrat throughout his career.

You say I'm mischaracterizing him, but I'm not. We agree actions speak louder than words right? Joe Biden's support for abortion access and wanting to pay for it out of American tax dollars, indicates to me a sincerely held positive belief about the value of abortion. He holds no personal objection to abortion any more. How can he?

Or perhaps he sees no reason as a politician to promote his own religious values above the plurality of Americans who may or may not agree with them? 75 percent of Americans are not Catholic- nearly 40 percent aren't even members of any religion.
 
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FireDragon76

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By that definition castration is a medical service. Doesn't mean it should be done or advocated for.

Why not? In cases of testicular cancer, it could save a life. Perhaps you should tone down the extremism.
 
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Arcangl86

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Nothing. The FBI should not be involved. If you believe the FBI should be involved in federal level crime, no matter how minor, well, I don't think I could convince you otherwise that it would a bad idea.
The literal reason for the existence of the FBI is to enforce federal law. Not only did these people violate the law, they livestreamed themselves doing so. Was the FBI suppose to just ignore blatant law breaking like that?
 
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Sparagmos

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Does surviving the Holocaust exempt you from following the law? Why is that relevant? Those people broke the law and got arrested. That would happen to anyone blocking the door to a business and preventing customers from entering.
 
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Hank77

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Thanks for the history lesson. Though I question the prolife people being arrested at the moment akin to violent extremists who need to serve prison time. I take it you approve of defending the abolition clinics in this manner from any interference from the prolife side?
No, I think pro-life people should be allowed to protest, speak out, and educate at clinic sites but from the location and distance that the law allows. No violence should take place at any location for any reason.
Pro-life people who are violent or break the law do a disserve to the pro-life cause.
 
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CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN

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Compare that with Antifa and BLM protesters who were NOT arrested, and the thugs that Democrat politicians allow to rule our large cities.
BLM protesters shouldn't be arrested if they were peaceful. Alot of them were. Alot of people were arrested and charged for rioting and their damage. I've only heard Antifa from the right, so I won't bother. If people cared about making abortion go down. They would make sure everyone was educated about Birth control. And were to get BC. Make BC free for the poor. People would go to people's house to teach about BC. Or give clothes, cribs, diapers to poor areas. Or volunteer in poor areas. I think protests in America are a waste of time. Just like people protesting about women right to abortions and BC.
 
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lismore

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DaisyDay

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Compare that with Antifa and BLM protesters who were NOT arrested, and the thugs that Democrat politicians allow to rule our large cities. We need a justice system that will treat BLM protesters the same as pro-lifers if either group blocks a freeway. The same for any of those who commit violence. We don't have that today and the country is falling apart. Just because you are a Democrat does not mean that you won't find yourself in a minority in the future. So you should be outraged at the disparity of treatment and you need to speak up.
Perhaps the antifa protesters avoided arrest by not advertising for participants and most importantly by not live-streaming themselves in action.
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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