Father forgive them, they don't understand

jisaiah6113

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"Father, forgive them, they know not what they do." It's one of the seven last sayings of the Lord from the cross.

I was thinking about this scripture tonight as I'm dealing with coworkers who are envious of me because of a promotion I received at work and who are finding little ways to make their displeasure known.

I was thinking about this scripture, and the thought that came to mind was, "It's easy to forgive someone when you believe they are acting in ignorance. But when they are actively trying to hurt you with intention and energy, it seems harder to forgive."

The other thought I had was that Jesus must have meant His prayer in a way that's not quite the same as what I'm suggesting. The Lord could not have possibly meant that the Pharisees, scribes, chief priests, elders, and Romans who carried out His crucifixion were ignorant of what they were doing.

He must have meant, that in a much deeper sense, they were ignorant of what they were doing in the grand scheme of things, and this is where the prayer might make sense.

It is true that people act maliciously. It doesn't seem like they are ignorant of what they are doing. Joseph's brothers knew exactly what they were doing when they threw Joseph into the pit and sold him as a slave. What they didn't know is that God would use their cruelty to save their lives and the lives of all nations when future events unfolded.

Perhaps that is why we can forgive others and say, "they don't understand what they're doing." It's a lot easier to forgive when you really believe that on a deeper level, your enemies are not really aware of what they're doing.

Any thoughts?
 

childeye 2

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"Father, forgive them, they know not what they do." It's one of the seven last sayings of the Lord from the cross.

I was thinking about this scripture tonight as I'm dealing with coworkers who are envious of me because of a promotion I received at work and who are finding little ways to make their displeasure known.

I was thinking about this scripture, and the thought that came to mind was, "It's easy to forgive someone when you believe they are acting in ignorance. But when they are actively trying to hurt you with intention and energy, it seems harder to forgive."

The other thought I had was that Jesus must have meant His prayer in a way that's not quite the same as what I'm suggesting. The Lord could not have possibly meant that the Pharisees, scribes, chief priests, elders, and Romans who carried out His crucifixion were ignorant of what they were doing.

He must have meant, that in a much deeper sense, they were ignorant of what they were doing in the grand scheme of things, and this is where the prayer might make sense.

It is true that people act maliciously. It doesn't seem like they are ignorant of what they are doing. Joseph's brothers knew exactly what they were doing when they threw Joseph into the pit and sold him as a slave. What they didn't know is that God would use their cruelty to save their lives and the lives of all nations when future events unfolded.

Perhaps that is why we can forgive others and say, "they don't understand what they're doing." It's a lot easier to forgive when you really believe that on a deeper level, your enemies are not really aware of what they're doing.

Any thoughts?
I have noticed that we all do things that we later regret. This necessarily means we know something now that we didn't know then, otherwise we would not have done it in the first place. Knowing this makes it an obligation to be understanding and show mercy if we are to love others as ourselves. For we shall be judged by what measure we judge others. We therefore must carry our cross and follow Christ if we are to crucify our flesh that we may live in him.

For Jesus said that the Pharisees were blind which implies not seeing in some manner, (probably lacking spiritual discernment). Stephen when being stoned by Saul/Paul asked God to not lay it to their charge (meaning forgive those who stoned him). Paul later became willing to die so as to preach the Gospel, whereas when he was Saul he was willing to kill to stop the Gospel from being preached. Hence the knowledge of God in Christ enlightens a persons soul and changes how we see. Those in darkness can't see.
 
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Vicky gould

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"Father, forgive them, they know not what they do." It's one of the seven last sayings of the Lord from the cross.

I was thinking about this scripture tonight as I'm dealing with coworkers who are envious of me because of a promotion I received at work and who are finding little ways to make their displeasure known.

I was thinking about this scripture, and the thought that came to mind was, "It's easy to forgive someone when you believe they are acting in ignorance. But when they are actively trying to hurt you with intention and energy, it seems harder to forgive."

The other thought I had was that Jesus must have meant His prayer in a way that's not quite the same as what I'm suggesting. The Lord could not have possibly meant that the Pharisees, scribes, chief priests, elders, and Romans who carried out His crucifixion were ignorant of what they were doing.

He must have meant, that in a much deeper sense, they were ignorant of what they were doing in the grand scheme of things, and this is where the prayer might make sense.

It is true that people act maliciously. It doesn't seem like they are ignorant of what they are doing. Joseph's brothers knew exactly what they were doing when they threw Joseph into the pit and sold him as a slave. What they didn't know is that God would use their cruelty to save their lives and the lives of all nations when future events unfolded.

Perhaps that is why we can forgive others and say, "they don't understand what they're doing." It's a lot easier to forgive when you really believe that on a deeper level, your enemies are not really aware of what they're doing.

Any thoughts?
the Lord operated on so many levels ours and His own ways that are not our ways. I always heard it was as they nailed his first hand He spoke those words that almost defy any superlative connected to them. If you don’t mind I would like to pray for you. HolyFather how great it is that your HolySon has opened the way that we can come before your throne of grace. Lord your servant is in difficult times and seeks to bring glory and honor to you and the Son and we ask for your wisdom Lord as it is the only true wisdom we believe not to lean on our own understanding. We also believe in your goodness, mercy and faithfulness. We ask these things in the Name of our Lord and Savior’. Jesus Christ amen

When God is pleased with a man He can even make his enemies be at peace with him.
 
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timothyu

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The other thought I had was that Jesus must have meant His prayer in a way that's not quite the same as what I'm suggesting. The Lord could not have possibly meant that the Pharisees, scribes, chief priests, elders, and Romans who carried out His crucifixion were ignorant of what they were doing.
I believe He did. What those people did and who Jesus asked forgiveness for, were doing one thing... putting themselves, their interests before others. No different that what co-workers are doing to you. That is , after all, the original sin. Man still doesn't get it, including many Christians.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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I think Jesus meant that they didn't understand the long-term import and effect of what they were doing. Not surprising however as few really consider the future effects of their actions (been there, done that).
 
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St_Worm2

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"Father, forgive them, they know not what they do." It's one of the seven last sayings of the Lord from the cross.

I was thinking about this scripture tonight as I'm dealing with coworkers who are envious of me because of a promotion I received at work and who are finding little ways to make their displeasure known.

I was thinking about this scripture, and the thought that came to mind was, "It's easy to forgive someone when you believe they are acting in ignorance. But when they are actively trying to hurt you with intention and energy, it seems harder to forgive."

The other thought I had was that Jesus must have meant His prayer in a way that's not quite the same as what I'm suggesting. The Lord could not have possibly meant that the Pharisees, scribes, chief priests, elders, and Romans who carried out His crucifixion were ignorant of what they were doing.

He must have meant, that in a much deeper sense, they were ignorant of what they were doing in the grand scheme of things, and this is where the prayer might make sense.

It is true that people act maliciously. It doesn't seem like they are ignorant of what they are doing. Joseph's brothers knew exactly what they were doing when they threw Joseph into the pit and sold him as a slave. What they didn't know is that God would use their cruelty to save their lives and the lives of all nations when future events unfolded.

Perhaps that is why we can forgive others and say, "they don't understand what they're doing." It's a lot easier to forgive when you really believe that on a deeper level, your enemies are not really aware of what they're doing.

Any thoughts?
Hi JIsaiah, why do you believe that Jesus did what He did here? IOW, why do you think that He asked the Father to forgive them, rather than simply forgiving them Himself?

Now (on what is probably a completely different note), it seems to me that Biblically, the Lord's true interest lies in "reconciliation" (both between Himself and us, and between people, of course), not just forgiveness. Forgiveness is the first step taken by an injured party toward reconciliation, but have these colleagues of yours repented and asked you to forgive them yet?

I think that we need to be ~ready~ to forgive those who have sinned against us whenever we are asked (and we need to not hate someone for what they've done and/or are doing to us), but if we choose to just forgive others willy-nilly, do we not leave ourselves at odds with those who we have chosen to 'silently' forgive, those who the Lord has commanded us to do our best to live in peace with?

Here's what the Scriptures teach us about forgiveness:

Luke 17
3 If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.
4 And if he sins against you seven times a day, and returns to you seven times, saying, ‘I repent,’ forgive him.

I know it's uncomfortable to do, but have you tried to gently confront your colleagues about what they are doing? If not, perhaps you could figure out a loving approach to do so (so that you'll be ready for them the next time they act up)? .. and that both for their sakes and for yours too.

*(just so you'll understand, the subject of forgiveness is something that I have just begun looking into again, so what I just said to you above should be taken as thoughts to be discussed, rather than as some kind of admonishment :))

Thanks!

--David
 
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jisaiah6113

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Hi JIsaiah, why do you believe that Jesus did what He did here? IOW, why do you think that He asked the Father to forgive them, rather than simply forgiving them Himself?

Now (on what is probably a completely different note), it seems to me that Biblically, the Lord's true interest lies in "reconciliation" (both between Himself and us, and between people, of course), not just forgiveness. Forgiveness is the first step taken by an injured party toward reconciliation, but have these colleagues of yours repented and asked you to forgive them yet?

I think that we need to be ~ready~ to forgive those who have sinned against us whenever we are asked (and we need to not hate someone for what they've done and/or are doing to us), but if we choose to just forgive others willy-nilly, do we not leave ourselves at odds with those who we have chosen to 'silently' forgive, those who the Lord has commanded us to do our best to live in peace with?

Here's what the Scriptures teach us about forgiveness:

Luke 17
3 If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.
4 And if he sins against you seven times a day, and returns to you seven times, saying, ‘I repent,’ forgive him.

I know it's uncomfortable to do, but have you tried to gently confront your colleagues about what they are doing? If not, perhaps you could figure out a loving approach to do so (so that you'll be ready for them the next time they act up)? .. and that both for their sakes and for yours too.

*(just so you'll understand, the subject of forgiveness is something that I have just begun looking into again, so what I just said to you above should be taken as thoughts to be discussed, rather than as some kind of admonishment :))

Thanks!

--David

Hi David,

I'm really open to what you're saying. I would be the bigger person by sitting down with them and asking what's wrong. But these people seem bent on hating me and shooting arrows at me. It doesn't seem anything I could say at this point could change their mind.

I typed a long story about what happened, but it's not necessary. God doesn't care what happens to us in terms of shaping our internal attitudes. It's our response. God of course cares. What I mean to say is that we can't use "extenuating circumstances" to exempt ourselves from His command to forgive others and walk in love and the blessing of our enemies. In fact, what I am going through is rather minor and pathetic compared to what some people go through.

Love conquers all. I have to believe that the light and love are brighter than hate, misunderstanding, prejudice, malice, and darkness. If I don't believe that, then I will believe that things are not fair, and I will be bitter. And that bitterness will complicate my relationship with God and with other people.
 
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jisaiah6113

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I have noticed that we all do things that we later regret. This necessarily means we know something now that we didn't know then, otherwise we would not have done it in the first place. Knowing this makes it an obligation to be understanding and show mercy if we are to love others as ourselves. For we shall be judged by what measure we judge others. We therefore must carry our cross and follow Christ if we are to crucify our flesh that we may live in him.

For Jesus said that the Pharisees were blind which implies not seeing in some manner, (probably lacking spiritual discernment). Stephen when being stoned by Saul/Paul asked God to not lay it to their charge (meaning forgive those who stoned him). Paul later became willing to die so as to preach the Gospel, whereas when he was Saul he was willing to kill to stop the Gospel from being preached. Hence the knowledge of God in Christ enlightens a persons soul and changes how we see. Those in darkness can't see.

This was an outstanding answer. I don't really understand the last part, but the first part about doing things we later regret is one that I understand. It's possible that many of the crowd who were shouting for Jesus to be murdered were actually remorseful afterwards. We aren't told. The leaders of Israel did not repent, and the judgment prophesied by Christ came upon them. But maybe some of the people realized they were crying out for innocent blood, after the fact.

It might be true of the statement, "let His blood be upon us and our children". Jews frequently complain about this verse, but the fact is that we all say things and do things in a moment of passion that we regret later.
 
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childeye 2

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This was an outstanding answer. I don't really understand the last part, but the first part about doing things we later regret is one that I understand. It's possible that many of the crowd who were shouting for Jesus to be murdered were actually remorseful afterwards. We aren't told. The leaders of Israel did not repent, and the judgment prophesied by Christ came upon them. But maybe some of the people realized they were crying out for innocent blood, after the fact.

It might be true of the statement, "let His blood be upon us and our children". Jews frequently complain about this verse, but the fact is that we all say things and do things in a moment of passion that we regret later.
Perhaps you could show the sentences I posted that you do not understand, that I might be able to rephrase and bring greater clarity. Apart from that, I want you to know that your post brought these scriptures to mind:
Zechariah 12:10
10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

1 Corinthians 2: 7-8
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
 
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Tolworth John

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"Father, forgive them, they know not what they do." It's one of the seven last sayings of the Lord from the cross.

I was thinking about this scripture tonight as I'm dealing with coworkers who are envious of me because of a promotion I received at work and who are finding little ways to make their displeasure known.

I was thinking about this scripture, and the thought that came to mind was, "It's easy to forgive someone when you believe they are acting in ignorance. But when they are actively trying to hurt you with intention and energy, it seems harder to forgive."

The other thought I had was that Jesus must have meant His prayer in a way that's not quite the same as what I'm suggesting. The Lord could not have possibly meant that the Pharisees, scribes, chief priests, elders, and Romans who carried out His crucifixion were ignorant of what they were doing.

He must have meant, that in a much deeper sense, they were ignorant of what they were doing in the grand scheme of things, and this is where the prayer might make sense.

It is true that people act maliciously. It doesn't seem like they are ignorant of what they are doing. Joseph's brothers knew exactly what they were doing when they threw Joseph into the pit and sold him as a slave. What they didn't know is that God would use their cruelty to save their lives and the lives of all nations when future events unfolded.

Perhaps that is why we can forgive others and say, "they don't understand what they're doing." It's a lot easier to forgive when you really believe that on a deeper level, your enemies are not really aware of what they're doing.

Any thoughts?

Jesus was not forgiving them, he was handing them over to God for him to deal with them.

Your coworkers are testing you. Rise above there petty acts and do your job proberly as it should be done.
When they see you aren't reacting they will grow tired and stop.
Pray for them. That they will benefit from your example, from there knowledge of the gospel etc etc.
 
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HardHead

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"Father, forgive them, they know not what they do." It's one of the seven last sayings of the Lord from the cross.
I see this as a reflection of a satanic influence holding them to the actions they took. They literally may not have known what was going on.
 
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Sunshinee777

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Im very naive in this way when someone is hurting me, I always think that this person really doesn´t do it on purpose. Maby he had a bad day, maby he is suffering himself etc. So it´s very easy to forgive. If im sure someone has hurt me on purpose, it´s not very easy to forgive but I know that there is only one judge in this world and beyond and it´s God. Some people have really hard time being happy for others. Compassion will lift heavy burden.
 
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