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Hermit76

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Am I the only one who has stepped into Holy Orthodoxy just to realize that my life, thoughts, and actions are so very far away from a humble walk with God? It seems that a true walk with Christ is going to take a lot of effort and changing.

I have been told to give it time, but I have children that I need to help during these formative years.

How do you give the needed attention without becoming needlessly fanatical? I know that piety for piety's sake can be very destructive. Where is the balance?

How do we live in such a world as we have today and not seem fanatical?

Please excuse my ramblings.
 

Glaucus

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Brother, I just about vomited when I read the following in 'The Way of a Pilgrim and The Pilgrim Continues His Way'. We all have a lot to ponder and work on:

The Confessions of the Interior Man

1. I do not love God. For if I loved God I should be continually thinking about Him with heartfelt joy. Every thought of God would give me gladness and delight. On the contrary, I much more often and much more eagerly think about earthly things, and thinking about God is labor and dryness. If I loved God, then talking with Him in prayer would be my nourishment and delight and would draw me to unbroken communion with Him. But, on the contrary, I not only find no delight in prayer, but even find it an effort. I struggle with reluctance, I am enfeebled by sloth, and am ready to occupy myself eagerly with any unimportant trifle, if only it shortens prayer and keeps me from it. My time slips away unnoticed in futile occupations, but when I am occupied with God, when I put myself into His presence, every hour seems like a year. If one person loves another, he thinks of him throughout the day with ceasing, he pictures him to himself, he cares for him, and in all circumstances his beloved friend is never out of his thoughts. But I, throughout the day, scarcely set aside even a single hour in which to sink deep down into meditation upon God, to inflame my heart with love for Him, while I eagerly give up twenty-three hours as fervent offering to the idols of my passions. I am forward in talk about frivolous matters and things which degrade the spirit; that gives me pleasure. But in the consideration of God I am dry, bored and lazy. Even if I am unwillingly drawn by others into spiritual conversation, I try to shift the subject quickly to one which pleases my desires. I am tirelessly curious about novelties, about civic affairs and political events; I eagerly seek the satisfaction of my love of knowledge in science and art, and in ways of getting things I want to possess. But the study of the Law of God, the knowledge of God and of religion, makes little impression on me, and satisfies no hunger of my soul. I regard these things not only as a non-essential occupation for a Christian, but in a casual way as a sort of side-issue with which I should perhaps occupy my spare time, at odd moments. To put it shortly, if love for God is recognized by the keeping of His Commandments (If ye love Me, keep My Commandments, says our Lord Jesus Christ), and I not only do not keep them, but even make little attempt to do so, then in absolute truth the conclusion follows that I do not love God. This is what Saint Basil the Great says: "The proof that mans does not love God and His Christ lies in the fact that he does not keep His commandments."

2. I do not love my neighbor either. For not only am I unable to make up my mind to lay down my life for his sake (according to the holy Gospel), but I do not even sacrifice my happiness, well-being and peace for the good of my neighbor. If I did love him as myself, as the Holy Gospel bids, his misfortunes would distress me also, and his happiness would bring delight to me too. But, on the contrary, I listen to curious, unhappy stories about my neighbor and I am not distressed; I remain quite undisturbed or, what is still worse, I find a sort of pleasure in them. Bad conduct on the part of my brother I do not cover up with love, but proclaim aloud with censure. His well-being, honor, and happiness do not delight me as my own, and, as if they were something quite alien to me, give me no feeling of gladness. What is more, they subtly arouse in me feelings of envy or contempt.

3. I have no religious belief. Neither in immortality nor in the Gospel. If I were firmly persuaded and believed without doubt that beyond the grave lies Eternal life and recompense for the deeds of this life, I should be continually thinking of this. The very idea of immortality would terrify me and I should lead this life as a foreigner who gets ready to enter his native land. On the contrary, I do not even think about Eternity, and I regard the end of this earthly life as the limit of my existence. The secret thought nestles within me: Who knows what happens at death? If I say I believe in immortality, then I am speaking about my mind only, and my heart is far removed from a firm conviction about it. That is openly witnessed to by my conduct and my constant care to satisfy the life of the senses. Were the Holy Gospel taken into my heart in faith, as the Word of God, I should be continually occupied with it. I should study it, find delight in it and with deep devotion fix my attention upon it. Wisdom, mercy, and love are hidden in it; it would lead me to happiness, I should find gladness in the study of the Law of God day and night. In it I should find nourishment like my daily bread and my heart would be drawn to the keeping of its laws. Nothing on earth would be strong enough to turn me away from it. On the contrary, if now and again I read or hear the Word of God, yet even so it is only from necessity or from a general love of knowledge, and approaching it without any very close attention, I find it dull and uninteresting. I usually come to the end of the reading without any profit, only too ready to change over to secular reading in which I take more pleasure and find new and interesting subjects.

4. I am full of pride and sensual self-love. All my actions confirm this. Seeing something good in myself, I want to bring it into view, or to pride myself upon it before other people or inwardly to admire myself for it. Although I display an outward humility, yet I ascribe it all to my own strength and regard myself as superior to others, or at least no worse than they. If I notice a fault in myself, I try to excuse it, I cover it up by saying, 'I am made like that', or 'I am not to blame'. I get angry with those who do not treat me with respect and consider them unable to appreciate the value of people. I brag about my gifts: my failures in any undertaking I regard as a personal insult. I murmur, and I find pleasure in the unhappiness of my enemies. If I strive after anything good it is for the purpose of winning praise, or spiritual self-indulgence, or earthly consolation. In a word, I continually make an idol of myself and render it uninterrupted service, seeking in all things the pleasure of the senses, and nourishment for my sensual passions and lusts.

Going over all this I see myself as proud, adulterous, unbelieving, without love to God and hating my neighbor. What state could be more sinful? The condition of the spirits of darkness is better than mine. They, although they do not love God, hate men and live upon pride, yet at least they believe and tremble. But I? Can there be doom more terrible than that which faces me, and what sentence of punishment will be more severe than that upon the careless and foolish life that I recognize in myself?
 
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Hermit76

You can call me Paisios
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Brother, I just about vomited when I read the following in 'The Way of a Pilgrim and The Pilgrim Continues His Way'. We all have a lot to ponder and work on:

The Confessions of the Interior Man

1. I do not love God. For if I loved God I should be continually thinking about Him with heartfelt joy. Every thought of God would give me gladness and delight. On the contrary, I much more often and much more eagerly think about earthly things, and thinking about God is labor and dryness. If I loved God, then talking with Him in prayer would be my nourishment and delight and would draw me to unbroken communion with Him. But, on the contrary, I not only find no delight in prayer, but even find it an effort. I struggle with reluctance, I am enfeebled by sloth, and am ready to occupy myself eagerly with any unimportant trifle, if only it shortens prayer and keeps me from it. My time slips away unnoticed in futile occupations, but when I am occupied with God, when I put myself into His presence, every hour seems like a year. If one person loves another, he thinks of him throughout the day with ceasing, he pictures him to himself, he cares for him, and in all circumstances his beloved friend is never out of his thoughts. But I, throughout the day, scarcely set aside even a single hour in which to sink deep down into meditation upon God, to inflame my heart with love for Him, while I eagerly give up twenty-three hours as fervent offering to the idols of my passions. I am forward in talk about frivolous matters and things which degrade the spirit; that gives me pleasure. But in the consideration of God I am dry, bored and lazy. Even if I am unwillingly drawn by others into spiritual conversation, I try to shift the subject quickly to one which pleases my desires. I am tirelessly curious about novelties, about civic affairs and political events; I eagerly seek the satisfaction of my love of knowledge in science and art, and in ways of getting things I want to possess. But the study of the Law of God, the knowledge of God and of religion, makes little impression on me, and satisfies no hunger of my soul. I regard these things not only as a non-essential occupation for a Christian, but in a casual way as a sort of side-issue with which I should perhaps occupy my spare time, at odd moments. To put it shortly, if love for God is recognized by the keeping of His Commandments (If ye love Me, keep My Commandments, says our Lord Jesus Christ), and I not only do not keep them, but even make little attempt to do so, then in absolute truth the conclusion follows that I do not love God. This is what Saint Basil the Great says: "The proof that mans does not love God and His Christ lies in the fact that he does not keep His commandments."

2. I do not love my neighbor either. For not only am I unable to make up my mind to lay down my life for his sake (according to the holy Gospel), but I do not even sacrifice my happiness, well-being and peace for the good of my neighbor. If I did love him as myself, as the Holy Gospel bids, his misfortunes would distress me also, and his happiness would bring delight to me too. But, on the contrary, I listen to curious, unhappy stories about my neighbor and I am not distressed; I remain quite undisturbed or, what is still worse, I find a sort of pleasure in them. Bad conduct on the part of my brother I do not cover up with love, but proclaim aloud with censure. His well-being, honor, and happiness do not delight me as my own, and, as if they were something quite alien to me, give me no feeling of gladness. What is more, they subtly arouse in me feelings of envy or contempt.

3. I have no religious belief. Neither in immortality nor in the Gospel. If I were firmly persuaded and believed without doubt that beyond the grave lies Eternal life and recompense for the deeds of this life, I should be continually thinking of this. The very idea of immortality would terrify me and I should lead this life as a foreigner who gets ready to enter his native land. On the contrary, I do not even think about Eternity, and I regard the end of this earthly life as the limit of my existence. The secret thought nestles within me: Who knows what happens at death? If I say I believe in immortality, then I am speaking about my mind only, and my heart is far removed from a firm conviction about it. That is openly witnessed to by my conduct and my constant care to satisfy the life of the senses. Were the Holy Gospel taken into my heart in faith, as the Word of God, I should be continually occupied with it. I should study it, find delight in it and with deep devotion fix my attention upon it. Wisdom, mercy, and love are hidden in it; it would lead me to happiness, I should find gladness in the study of the Law of God day and night. In it I should find nourishment like my daily bread and my heart would be drawn to the keeping of its laws. Nothing on earth would be strong enough to turn me away from it. On the contrary, if now and again I read or hear the Word of God, yet even so it is only from necessity or from a general love of knowledge, and approaching it without any very close attention, I find it dull and uninteresting. I usually come to the end of the reading without any profit, only too ready to change over to secular reading in which I take more pleasure and find new and interesting subjects.

4. I am full of pride and sensual self-love. All my actions confirm this. Seeing something good in myself, I want to bring it into view, or to pride myself upon it before other people or inwardly to admire myself for it. Although I display an outward humility, yet I ascribe it all to my own strength and regard myself as superior to others, or at least no worse than they. If I notice a fault in myself, I try to excuse it, I cover it up by saying, 'I am made like that', or 'I am not to blame'. I get angry with those who do not treat me with respect and consider them unable to appreciate the value of people. I brag about my gifts: my failures in any undertaking I regard as a personal insult. I murmur, and I find pleasure in the unhappiness of my enemies. If I strive after anything good it is for the purpose of winning praise, or spiritual self-indulgence, or earthly consolation. In a word, I continually make an idol of myself and render it uninterrupted service, seeking in all things the pleasure of the senses, and nourishment for my sensual passions and lusts.

Going over all this I see myself as proud, adulterous, unbelieving, without love to God and hating my neighbor. What state could be more sinful? The condition of the spirits of darkness is better than mine. They, although they do not love God, hate men and live upon pride, yet at least they believe and tremble. But I? Can there be doom more terrible than that which faces me, and what sentence of punishment will be more severe than that upon the careless and foolish life that I recognize in myself?

Christ have mercy
 
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FenderTL5

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~Anastasia~

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Am I the only one who has stepped into Holy Orthodoxy just to realize that my life, thoughts, and actions are so very far away from a humble walk with God? It seems that a true walk with Christ is going to take a lot of effort and changing.

I have been told to give it time, but I have children that I need to help during these formative years.

How do you give the needed attention without becoming needlessly fanatical? I know that piety for piety's sake can be very destructive. Where is the balance?

How do we live in such a world as we have today and not seem fanatical?

Please excuse my ramblings.

This is good to discuss with your priest.

I will share a little. When I was received into the Church - it was as though God suddenly opened my eyes to certain things in myself. I am ashamed to go over it here. But it was almost overwhelming. Not quite too much to handle, but it felt like it would be. I did set to work. Maybe too zealously, I don't know, certainly not as much as we read in some of the writings! But beginning with what happens in the mind is overwhelming, because thoughts happen all the time. (And I'd had some training and practice in such things before, so had the benefit of some discipline there at least.)

But it was like a thought of having to deal with each tree in a forest that blanketed the continent. It seemed it would be impossible. But ... I started work on it, as I was advised.

And you know what? Those particular things, indeed, over time came to be tamed somewhat. They are not gone. I have to be aware they can always come back, must always guard. And to be honest, I don't think my efforts did it. I think God secretly did those things while I was busily just trying to do what I was told. Such is the grace of God. :)

But before you think that's an easy process and we "arrive" ..... ohhhhh noooooooo ...... let me tell you. Those little things that I thought were so large might be tamed, but that only makes the way for God to show me new things to be concerned with. Bigger giants, harder to root out - but thankfully I know now, or am beginning to, that the work is really His. It's not so difficult as it seems, because it is actually impossible for us.

That's as far as I've gotten. What I am pretty sure I know, is that if I get through these, by the grace and with the help of God ... there will likely be more. I probably have NO IDEA how very far I really am from where God would bring me, if I would go. And I think that's a mercy that I don't know. That first glimpse seemed like an insurmountable thing, and it turns out that's just a start. I probably would have despaired of even cooperating with God if I saw the whole picture clearly from the first, especially with the silly idea that it would be MY doing to "fix" it all.

I'm not sure if this is too much, too vague, or at all helpful. I just think I identify with what you're asking, and if I could tell myself back then what I've learned just slightly along it would be ... don't worry. Just cooperate with God, repent when you need to, be mindful of your thoughts, keep saying your prayers, going to Church, receiving the Sacraments, and ...

I begin to understand now why they say just keep on going, stay on the path, when you fall, get back up. That really IS our part. We just cooperate. God does the heavy lifting. There are of course many tools to help us - thank God the Church offers us those. But we neither know how nor are we able to do it on our own.

Your children are SO blessed to have you on this path in time for them to see it though. The opportunity for what you can demonstrate to them is absolutely priceless.

God be with you.
 
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WadeTheophan

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Am I the only one who has stepped into Holy Orthodoxy just to realize that my life, thoughts, and actions are so very far away from a humble walk with God? It seems that a true walk with Christ is going to take a lot of effort and changing.

I have been told to give it time, but I have children that I need to help during these formative years.

How do you give the needed attention without becoming needlessly fanatical? I know that piety for piety's sake can be very destructive. Where is the balance?

How do we live in such a world as we have today and not seem fanatical?

Please excuse my ramblings.
You are most definitely NOT the only one to discover that on entering the Orthodox life that you are woefully inadequate. Anyone who is honest with themselves and doesn’t feel this way I would find suspect. I don’t know what you are thinking of when you say fanatical but I would just say don’t try to achieve sainthood overnight. Forgive yourself when you fail as God forgives and work from the inside out. Read, learn to pray and know it will take the rest of your life to learn to pray. Just do the best you can and learn to draw strength and hope from the Spirit that is within you.
 
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Abdelas

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Am I the only one who has stepped into Holy Orthodoxy just to realize that my life, thoughts, and actions are so very far away from a humble walk with God? It seems that a true walk with Christ is going to take a lot of effort and changing.

I have been told to give it time, but I have children that I need to help during these formative years.

How do you give the needed attention without becoming needlessly fanatical? I know that piety for piety's sake can be very destructive. Where is the balance?

How do we live in such a world as we have today and not seem fanatical?

Please excuse my ramblings.
Nothing easy is ever of much value. I am finding that out daily!
 
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