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LDS False Prophets

Discussion in 'Debate Other Religions & Faiths' started by Yodas_Prodigy1, Apr 15, 2019.

  1. Yodas_Prodigy1

    Yodas_Prodigy1 New Member

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    Do you believe that there are false prophets? Could you describe a false prophet? Do you know of any? What are we supposed to do about our relationship with false prophets?

    A false prophet is easy to identify. If someone makes a prediction as if the message came from God and they were wrong, they are a false prophet. There are many false prophets.

    Here are two false prophesies:

    1. Prophecy about Jesus' return within 56 years--"President Smith then stated that the meeting had been called, because God had commanded it; and it was made known to him by vision and by the Holy Spirit. He then gave a relation of some of the circumstances attending us while journeying to Zion--our trials, sufferings; and said God had not designed all this for nothing, but He had it in remembrance yet; and it was the will of God that those who went to Zion, with a determination to lay down their lives, if necessary, should be ordained to the ministry, and go forth to prune the vineyard for the last time, for the coming of the Lord, which was nigh--even fifty-six years should wind up the scene." (History of the Church, vol. 2, p. 189). Matt Slick


    2. Prophecy that the temple would be built in Missouri within Smith's Generation--"Yea, the word of the Lord concerning his church, established in the last days for the restoration of his people, as he has spoken by the mouth of his prophets, and for the gathering of his saints to stand upon Mount Zion,i which shall be the city of New Jerusalem. 3 Which city shall be built, beginning at the temple lot, which is appointed by the finger of the Lord, in the western boundaries of the State of Missouri, and dedicated by the hand of Joseph Smith, Jun., and others with whom the Lord was well pleased. 4 Verily this is the word of the Lord, that the city New Jerusalem shall be built by the gathering of the saints, beginning at this place, even the place of the temple, which temple shall be reared in this generation. 5 For verily this generation shall not all pass away until an house shall be built unto the Lord, and a cloud shall rest upon it, which cloud shall be even the glory of the Lord, which shall fill the house . . . 31 Therefore, as I said concerning the sons of Moses for the sons of Moses and also the sons of Aaron shall offer an acceptable offering and sacrifice in the house of the Lord, which house shall be built unto the Lord in this generation, upon the consecrated spot as I have appointed." (Doctrines and Covenants 84:2-5,31.) Matt Slick


    So, what do you do with false prophets in the LDS ranks?
     
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  2. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    !. The actual revelation was given to Joseph Smith in the D&C and was actually two revelations:

    (Doctrine and Covenants | Section 130:12 - 17)

    12 I prophesy, in the name of the Lord God, that the commencement of the difficulties which will cause much bloodshed previous to the coming of the Son of Man will be in South Carolina.
    13 It may probably arise through the slave question. This a voice declared to me, while I was praying earnestly on the subject, December 25th, 1832.
    14 I was once praying very earnestly to know the time of the coming of the Son of Man, when I heard a voice repeat the following:
    15 Joseph, my son, if thou livest until thou art eighty–five years old, thou shalt see the face of the Son of Man; therefore let this suffice, and trouble me no more on this matter.
    16 I was left thus, without being able to decide whether this coming referred to the beginning of the millennium or to some previous appearing, or whether I should die and thus see his face.
    17 I believe the coming of the Son of Man will not be any sooner than that time.

    Both of these revelations are true.

    2. We need to look at this prophecy in the context of a similar one given by Jesus Christ:

    (New Testament | Luke 21:27 - 32)

    27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
    28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
    29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
    30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
    31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
    32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

    Did Jesus give a false prophesy? If not you are showing us a double standard.
    When the scriptures use words like this generation, repent for the kingdom of God is near at hand, soon to come, and in due time, it can mean several years, or even centuries
     
  3. devin553344

    devin553344 My Brain's Offline But My Heart Isn't

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    We should point out that God would never answer Joseph's revelation regarding the coming of the son of man which proves it was a false prophecy: Matthew 24:36

    "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

    Not even Jesus is given the time of his coming, so for Joseph Smith to ask shows a lack of faith in God and at best the attempts of a false prophet to acquire information above Jesus' authority. If you accept this and look at it in all honesty you should see that. It's typical for Joseph Smith to give revelations above Jesus' authority, like marriage in heaven, baptisms for the dead (Matthew 8:22), words of wisdom etc. Which doctrines are already spelled out in the Bible by Jesus himself. Like Jesus stating there is nor marriage in heaven (Matthew 22:30), and turned water into wine (John 2:1-11), drank wine with the sinners (Matthew 11:19), etc.

    That's why Christians see Joseph Smith as a false prophet probably.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
  4. tampasteve

    tampasteve Messianic and Lutheran Staff Member Purple Team - Moderator Supporter

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    MOD HAT ON
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  5. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    Too late I have already proved that it was not false, but people who read the anti LDS literature will hold onto this like a dog with a bone anyway. Sadly they don't see that this was a personal remark and not an actual prophecy. The prophecy was clearly written in the D&C section 130.
     
  6. devin553344

    devin553344 My Brain's Offline But My Heart Isn't

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    Please clarify how it was true. Was there bloodshed originating from South Carolina prior to the coming of the Son of Man? Did the Son of Man return at Josephs 85 age or equivalent?

    The fact is that there has been no coming of the son of man, and that was nearly 200 years ago. Where is this coming of the Son of Man that you claim he predicted?
     
  7. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    Yes there was bloodshed in the civil war and it was over the slave issue. I did not claim that Joseph Smith predicted when the second coming was to be. Joseph was told that if he lived to be 85 he would see the second coming. However, he did not live to the ripe old age of 85, but was murdered by a mob of men when he was 38 years old. He exclaimed that the second coming would not take place before he was 85 (which it didn't) and was not told when it was to take place. He summed it up by saying "I was left thus, without being able to decide whether this coming referred to the beginning of the millennium or to some previous appearing, or whether I should die and thus see his face." He did die and his last words were my Lord my God, which leads me to believe that he did see His face.
     
  8. Ironhold

    Ironhold Member

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    FYI -

    Nobody takes Matt Slick seriously. He's the Buzzfeed of the anti-Mormon movement.

    The original statement Joseph made had him referring to a revelation he had, one in which he was told that if he lived to a specific age he'd see God.

    A. Joseph himself admitted that he didn't know the circumstances under which he'd meet God.

    B. The revelation was dependent upon Joseph living that long.

    C. Joseph himself also admitted that he didn't think he would live that long.

    The ground has been consecrated, but given the hatred of men the physical building has yet to be built; had it been erected at the time, the line of ministers waiting to desecrate it would have stretched across the county.
     
  9. devin553344

    devin553344 My Brain's Offline But My Heart Isn't

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    Yet I can't help but ask myself after reading D&C 130, "200 years later and where's the coming of the son of man?"

    I just can't see your logic as being face value of the texts, so we'll disagree on that. For that matter the revelations of Jesus in the bible are also face value: marriage in heaven, baptism of the dead and words of wisdom. Maybe that's the difference in how we see things? I take them at face value, and if things don't add up, then I'm suspicious of their validity. I see that as wisdom.
     
  10. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    The whole premise of this thread is that Joseph made false prophecies. However, the prophecies made by Joseph Smith were not false. There would be a better case against Isaiah when he said that Hezekiah would die and not live, but he lived another fifteen years.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
  11. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    Isaiah did not give a false prophecy. God told him that Hezekiah would die---Hezekiah cried and begged God and God changed the prophecy to extend Hezekiah's life by 15 years. Isaiah stated what God told him both times. There was no false prophecy.
     
  12. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    Yes, God can change a prophecy.
     
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