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False Prophets and Teachers?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Anthony, Nov 8, 2002.

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  1. NoDeceit

    NoDeceit New Member

    The writer of 3 John wrote about a false teacher who had actually taken over the church.

    I wrote to the church, but Diotrephes, who loves to have the preeminence among them, does not receive us. Therefore, if I come, I will call to mind his deeds which he does, prating against us with malicious words. And not content with that, he himself does not receive the brethren, and forbids those who wish to, putting them out of the church. (3 John 9-10)

    Jude writes,

    Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints. For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ. (Jude 3-4)

    Even though Jude says they actually " deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ ," he most profoundly points out that these ungodly men had " crept in unnoticed ." How could they be " unnoticed " if they deny the Lord? Surely, believers would immediately notice anyone who denied the Lord. The problem is, they deny Him deceitfully, as Titus dictates,

    They profess to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient, and disqualified for every good work. (Titus 1:16)

    When we come near to the end of that first century, what do we find in those seven churches mentioned in the book of Revelation? Only two out of the seven, Smyrna and Philadelphia, do not get rebuked. Ephesus had lost their first love (Revelation 2:1-7). Pergamos had a problem with idolatry, immorality, and " the doctrine of the Nicolaitans " (Revelation 2:12-17). Thyatira had a false prophetess teaching immorality and idolatry (Revelation 2:18-29). Sardis was dead (Revelation 3:1-6), and Laodicea was lukewarm (Revelation 3:14-22). Other than the churches of Smyrna and Philadelphia, the churches were either in serious trouble, as in Ephesus, or they were downright lost, as in Laodicea. Overall, things were not going well.

    When Paul met with the elders of Ephesus in Acts 20, what was his warning to them? Basically, that things were going to get bad!

    For I have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God. Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves. Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears. (Acts 20:27-31)

    Paul knew that trouble was coming and that false spiritual leaders would arise, even from among those to whom he spoke. So Paul warned them, day and night with tears.

    Likewise, the New Testament warns over and again about being deceived and led astray and the importance of sound doctrine (e.g. Romans 16:17-18; 1 Corinthians 6:9; Ephesians 5:6; Colossians 2:4-10; 1 Thessalonians 5:20-22; 2 Thessalonians 2:3; 1 Timothy 1:3-6; 4:16; 6:20-21; 2 Timothy 1:13; Titus 1:9-16; 2:6-8; 3:9-11; 2 Peter 3:17-18; 1 John 4:1-6; 2 John 7-11; etc.). The early church was not oblivious to the kinds of perils we see in our day. They were repeatedly warned, and yet still, many fell (e.g. Philippians 2:19-21; 3:17-19; 1 Timothy 1:5-7, 18-20; 5:11-15; 6:10, 20-21; 2 Timothy 1:15; 2:17-18; 4:10; Titus 1:10-11).

    In 2 Peter, Peter came right out and said, " there will be false teachers among you ," and that " many will follow their destructive ways " (2 Peter 2:1-2). False teachers are nothing new, and the reality of " many " following them is also not peculiar to our times. False Christianity has been active since that first century.

    So, what should we expect to find when it comes to real Christianity? Given the above, particularly the reality of 2 Timothy 3:1-5 and 4:3-4, what should we Biblically expect in these last days? Does Scripture describe an abundance of real, true, Spirit-filled believers? No, on the contrary, just the opposite is depicted (2 Timothy 3:1-5; 4:3-4; 2 Peter 2:1-2). In fact, Jesus asked a similar question, and by it, indicated the possibility of little to no believers on the planet in the last days.

    I tell you that He will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth? (Luke 18:8)

    Literally, in the Greek, Christ says, " will He really find the faith on the earth? " The question here is not whether or not Christ will find people of great faith when He returns, but rather, will He find anyone who truly believes in Him when He comes back! Will He find the faith on the earth? Will the faith even be on the planet? The fact that Christ even asks this question implies perilous times for the last days, particularly those last days immediately before His return.

    To press this point home even further, when was the last time you heard of a Christian praying for justice and vengeance? This is the context in which Christ spoke (Luke 18:1-8), and this is the kind of faith that describes the faith of the elect. As Christ said in this same text,

    And shall God not avenge His own elect who cry out day and night to Him, though He bears long with them? I tell you that He will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find the faith on the earth? (Luke 18:7-8, NKJV with "the" added before "faith" in keeping with the Greek)

    Therefore, in keeping with the Word of God, what should we expect to find in these last days? Should we expect to find many believers, or very few? Actually, with the Words of Christ in mind, we might even expect to find none! Yet, with Jeremiah 35:19 and 1 Thessalonians 4:15 & 17, these indicate that there will be, at the very least, two or more.

    In Jeremiah 35:19 the Lord promised Jonadab the son of Rechab that he would " not lack a man to stand before Me forever " intimating that there would be at least one true believer from his loins throughout each generation. Moreover, in 1 Thessalonians 4:15 Paul writes, " we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord ," and in verse 17 " Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds. " These, " we who are alive and remain " dictate that there will be true believers who are alive on the planet when Christ returns. How many? Paul doesn?t say. But, nonetheless, there will be some, at least two, because he says " we ."

    From 2 Timothy 3:1-5, 4:3-4, 2 Peter 2:1-2, and Luke 18:8, it is apparent that few indeed (Matthew 7:13-14), even among the "Christian" population, will be true believers up until the time of Christ's return. Sometime in the near future (Revelation 1:1-3), Elijah is suppose to come back upon the scene (Malachi 4:5; Matthew 17:11; Mark 9:12), and God?s two witnesses will be present (Revelation 11:3-12). But, Elijah and these two witnesses are not anyone new. Elijah has already been on the earth, and these two witnesses are people who have been in heaven for quite some time (Zechariah 4:11-14; Revelation 11:4). Whether one of these two witnesses is actually Elijah or not, Scripture does not say. Nevertheless, these two, or three, are yet to be on the earth.

    Once the day of the Lord hits (1 Thessalonians 4:15-5:3), the Word reveals that there will be specifically 144,000 Jews who will be saved (Revelation 7:1-8; 14:1-5), and also a mass number of people " of all nations ." This number is so great that the Lord calls it " a great multitude which no one could number " (Revelation 7:9-17). From what we have recorded in Scripture, this time, that is, during the great tribulation (Matthew 24:21; Revelation 7:13-14), is a time unlike any in the history of mankind in which untold thousands, if not millions, are saved. God does a great work of salvation in the final days. Praise the Lord!

    Oh, give thanks to the Lord, for He is good! For His mercy endures forever. (Psalm 136:1)
  2. EliasEmmanuel

    EliasEmmanuel Gomi No Sensei

    I was referring specifically to selfish ambition, divisions and factions mentioned therein...

    Funny how you disregarded everything else I said.... not so funny actually, given that your church's website alone is enough evidence of a marked lack of the fruits of the Spirit, as well as an incredibly selective application of the "faithfulness to every word of scripture" it seems to bent on enforcing on everyone else....

    But we're obviously not going to talk about that... in fact you havn't answered anything I've asked or really responded to much of what I've said. Sticking to the question of whether one can scripturally rebuke someone for claiming their group is the only group of true believers there is a lot safer......right?

    No, because Elijah had God's word on his side. Don't compare your Pastor's wild speculations (passed off as Scriptural truth, necessary for Salvation) to the greatest prophet of the OT......
  3. edpobre

    edpobre Well-Known Member

    Who is the ONLY ONE God that YOUR church believe in and teach? Isn't it the Trinity with a slight twist? Instead of one person of Godthe Holy Spirit you teach that the Holy Spirit is composed of seven spirits just as God is composed of three persons, right?

    What is YOUR church's stand on John 8:40 and John 17:3?

  4. JesusServant

    JesusServant do not stray too far left nor right but CENTER

    ....newsflash, a bulletin from JS...

    Read Isaiah 11:2 for a better understanding of what the seven spirits are referring to.  The first I saw of this was in the NASB Bible, and while I think it's the best translation out there along with the KJV and the NKJV it lost me here (that's why I try to ignore the notes in study Bibles now).  I don't even see seven spirits listed, the most I can come up with here is six, but maybe someone else could give us scripture to show seven I don't know.  What I get out of Isaiah 11:2 is how the Spirit of God will rest upon the Messiah (Jesus Christ) and how he will be able to teach and judge when He arrives throughout the rest of Isaiah 11.

    ....back to your regularly scheduled discussions...
  5. edpobre

    edpobre Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the info. My reading of the Today's English Version of Isaiah 11:2 and Isaiah 61:1  leads me to believe that these are NOT the seven spirits of God mentioned in Rev. 1:4, Rev. 4:5 and Rev. 5:6.

    This is how Isaiah 11:2 is rendered in the Today's English Version: "The Spirit of the Lord will give him wisdom, and the knowledge and skill to rule his people. He will know the Lord's will and honour him."

    On the other hand, the seven spirits of God that are BEFORE his throne (Rev. 1:4) and the seven lamps that are BEFORE his throne (Rev. 4:5) and the seven horns and seven eyes of the Lamb (Rev. 5:6) are seven spirit "angels" or messengers that God SENDS out into all the earth (Rev. 5:6). Please note that these verses are SIMILARLY rendered in BOTH the Today's English Version and the New King James Version.


  6. EPHRIAM777


    Originally posted by stumpsitting101
    Quote of EPH...by Stump 101
    "When pressed by me...he didn't want to comment on his "book sales"..practices..."

    Stump 101 says..
    I would have done the same thing as did Mr. Dobson. Since I did not know you personally and you showed no evidence of being an official revenue employee, I would have told you "NONE YA". Who knows, over the phone or by E-Mail, what the intent of the other party may be?

    Eph says...

    Thats ok...but don't ask for "donations then"...from unsuspecting Christians who think your a Pastor of some sort...! Charities ask for donations...not Pastors of Jesus Christ...! Be honest how you SELL yer books and don't tag it to "contributions"...or love gifts for not less than...ect ect...!

    Stump101 says...

    How does this Scripture demonstrate Dobson's practically DEIFIES the family? Upon closer and further reading, one will notice that Abram, did not actually leave his family. For sure, he took his father, his wife, the household servants, and Lot. Not exactly leaving his family!

    Eph writes...

    ...and thats why Abe had problems with his family...Not till his dad died and he SPLIT from Lot did he begin to grow in Faith...! Dobson's "FOCUS" is on the Family...not Jesus Christ...!

    Stump 101 says..

    Knowing the Lord Jesus is the most important event, but the family is right up there close by. This may be me, but I think God is a "Family Man"

    Eph writes...

    Sorry...close doesn't even come close.....Scripture says what it does...and the ONLY family we have worth anything eternally at least..is those IN Christ Jesus...!

    Let the dead bury the dead is how Jesus put it...right or wrong..?

    Focusing on the Family..instead of focusing of Jesus Christ..is a little side street that looks nice and safe...but sends people down the wrong road...

    Satan comes as an Angel of Light..not as a bad guy in a red suit and tail with horns...Those false guys actually say.."didn't we do thus and so in YOUR name"...They don't come in someone elses name...They speak of Jesus...not someone else....!

    Yet their message is NOT from Jesus..it's a message that uses his name alot....but doesn't teach about him...

    Dobson is a classic case of someone who comes and "says Jesus alot"...but isn't in any way in accordance with EPH 4:11:12...!
  7. EPHRIAM777


    Originally posted by TheBear [/i]

    It is abundantly clear that it is you who is following a false teacher. There are many different denominations represented here at Christian Forums, and some doctrinal differences, but none as bizzare as the teachings of "Darwin Fish".

    Eph wonders...??

    [nodis]Statements in violation of rules deleted![/nodis]

    (( Eph decides to try his best to be a good christian and get everybody to like him ))

    Bear...my dear Christian brother....please try to show some "Christian love to whoever Darwin Fish is...!

    You need to be more like Jesus was and be more loving and understanding...to those who differ with your own beliefs...Calling other peoples Pastors "bizzare" and "false teachers'...is mean and non Christ like...!

    Shame on you for causing DIVISION among the brethern here on these forums...!

    We all need to love everyone and not be mean to each other...no matter what is written or posted.....Pointing fingers at other Christians and calling them followers of a "false teacher"...is not something Jesus would do...!

    (( GEE...I guess I might get bumped off the forum now for being "a bad christian" who isn't being Christ like ))

    Ya know.....Bear...

    Like you said to me once..."there are children who read here and we have to be careful how we post to others because little children might read the posts"....right..?

    So lets all just cool down a bit and LOVE each other a bit more...like Jesus would..!

    Hope that helps....!

  8. Job_38

    Job_38 <font size="1"> In perfect orbit they have circled

    Benny Hinn

    Kenneth Copeland

    Reverend Joyce Myers

    Creflo A. Dollar

    I will get the stuff later.
  9. stumpsitting101

    stumpsitting101 Senior Member

    :Thats ok...but don't ask for "donations then"...from unsuspecting Christians who think your a Pastor of some sort...! Charities ask for donations...not Pastors of Jesus Christ...! Be honest how you SELL yer books and don't tag it to "contributions"...or love gifts for not less than...ect ect...!:

    Thanks Eph, I'll be sure not to ask for donations from unsuspecting Christians who think I'm a Pastor or sorts. I don't think you will have to worry about that one.

    "Stump 101 says..
    Knowing the Lord Jesus is the most important event, but the family is right up there close by. This may be me, but I think God is a "Family Man"
    Eph writes...
    Sorry...close doesn't even come close.....Scripture says what it does...and the ONLY family we have worth anything eternally at least..is those IN Christ Jesus...!
    Let the dead bury the dead is how Jesus put it...right or wrong..? "

    Sorry to disagree with you on this, for there are a lot of scriptures which directs the Christian actions to be demonstrated within the family, and may I point out, that many do not clarify these families as being totally Christian families.
    When one's Christianity is not working within the immediate family, it usually doesn't work outside that family as well.

    'Scriptures do say what they say.'

    Eph 5:25
    25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; KJV

    Col 3:19-21
    19 Husbands, love your wives, and be not bitter against them.
    20 Children, obey your parents in all things: for this is well pleasing unto the Lord.
    21 Fathers, provoke not your children to anger, lest they be discouraged.

    Titus 2:4
    4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, KJV

    These Scriptures give no indication as the one giving or recieving love. teaching or discipline to be living in an entirely Christian family. I'll admit, there are many scriptures I don't understand, but I do understand the importance of one's witness of Christ and demonstrating the Christ lead life in the immediate family and this is a close thing to God's heart. This should be your's also. Is Witnessing Christ limited to just within the fellowship of believers?
    Were we not given instructions as to how we were to witness?

    Acts 1:8
    8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. KJV

    Since I fairly sure you haven't witnessed in these locations, these locations must have deeper meanings. Could Jerusalem in this scripture be understood as one's family? It seems to me witness Of Christ in one's immediate family, wheither saved or unsaved, is a very concern to Our Father God. And it is a close that is even close, not as you have stated "...close doesn't even come close....."

    Do we limit them to a place beneath us by associating ourselves to the fellowship only? How are they to become that family you said is "the only family worth anything eternally"?

    And Please don't reply with "That was directions given to the Jews of that day or given to the First Century Church." I trust that you understand.

    I still think, personally, God is a Family Man.

    I'm not defending James Dobson, nor any of the others listed, I'm just answering some the questions you asked. Especially the one about the family. Now that's my views and what I feel the scriptures state, accept them or ignore them. your choice.

    Oh, by the way, I've been wondering If you are married with children, especially teenagers?

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