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False Prophets and Teachers?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Anthony, Nov 8, 2002.

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  1. fieldsofwind

    fieldsofwind Well-Known Member

    +7
    Christian
    forgive me anthony... but I post a reply to ed and then past it across the board because they generally apply to all of ed's posts.

    and I answer them as he pasts them

    take care

    FOW
     
  2. Anthony

    Anthony Generic Christian

    +42
    Christian
    FOW

    It is very frustrating at times to convey what appears to be very basic Christian doctrine, or a have what one hope can be a open discussion. But many people are here to push and not to learn. You can give them a sea of explanations and they will simply say "What about this". In the end it is not worth all the time you invested. It is better to discuss issues slowly point for point, one question at a time. In order to access their honesty in learning or whether they even have an open mind.

    MT 7:6
    "Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces.
     
  3. Rising_Suns

    Rising_Suns 'Christ's desolate heart is in need of comfort'

    +770
    Catholic
    Just to chime in here with my .02....

    I didn't bother to read everything FOW wrote. It seems, the more text I see, the less inclined I am to read a post, due to obvious time restraints from other activities going on in my life. But the post wasn't directed at me, so....
     
  4. NoDeceit

    NoDeceit New Member

    65
    +0
    Here is a list:

    TRUE PASTORS EXPOSE FALSE TEACHERS
    (John 10:12-13, Ephesians 5:11).
    Are you a "Christian" on your way to hell? If you follow a false teacher you are (John 10:5)!


    Most churches are led by false teachers (2 Peter 2:1-3). Some of the more well known "heap" (2 Tim. 4:3) of false teachers are James Dobson, John MacArthur, Greg Laurie,, Billy Graham, Dave Hunt, Charles Stanley, Neil Anderson, Chuck Swindoll, Chuck Smith, Miles McPherson, T.D. Jakes, Benny Hinn, Jack Hayford, Martin & Deidre Bobgan, Paul Chappell, Also erroneous are the "Early Church Fathers", TBN, Charles Spurgeon (ecumenical), Promise Keepers, "KJV Onlyism", Alcoholics Anonymous, "Christian" Psychology, "Biblical" Counseling, and certain holidays (e.g. Christmas, Easter Halloween, and Valentine's Day).

    I can provide proof for each teacher.

    In His love,

    (Edited by Wolseley to remove link)
     
  5. EPHRIAM777

    EPHRIAM777 A REAL NICE GUY..!

    448
    +0
    Originally posted by Ben johnson

    Charles Spurgeon and Charles Stanley contradict my understanding of "OSNAS" (they believe, or believed, in Once Saved Always Saved); but I would stop FAR SHORT of calling them "basphemers"!

    Eph writes...

    I agree..no Pastor has it all down pat and perfect..MARK 9:38:41 kicks in for ME personaly when I see others who don't do things quite exactly as I would....I leave their "eternal status" up to the one who's right it is to judge them that way....!

    Ben says...
    James Dobson? "Focus on the Family"? I would like to see the documentation posted here for grounds of accusation. I myself heard a blatant blasphemy by a prominent TV preacher*, and no he's not one listed here...

    Eph writes...

    Dobson..is a different story..!

    Listen to his program..he clearly states he is an AUTHOR and a PSYCHOGIST..Not a Pastor...yet at the end of each program he asks ( or has a person ask) for Donations..for the books he is selling..Well not being a Pastor..he shouldn't ask for donations from "Christians" as if he actually IS a Pastor....

    Listen to the "book or tape commercial" a the end of his program and you'll see what I mean....It's just a way to avoid the TAXES on the sale of a book or tape..."For an offering or donation of not less than"...or for a "donation of at least"..X amount he'll send you a book...!

    That means he's what he claims to be..an AUTHOR...He's selling books..it's how he makes his money...

    WHICH I might add is OK for him to do..Untill he asks for "donations" or "contributions" for the books he's selling..THAT is where the deception is...!

    He's piggy backing the SALE of a book he or a friend wrote...onto making a contribution..as if your supporting a CHRISTIAN MINISTRY...!

    When in fact all your supporting is his "Psychology Practice" and He's cheating the Gov't out of the TAXES on the sale of a book...!

    Quite subtle..yet they are out there...AND I might add Dobson is a likeable guy..I'm sure he thinks he's doing a great work for the Lord...But he's actually a fraud....in the sence that HE isn't a Christian Pastor...and he shouldn't ask for "donations or contributions"...for the books he sellin....Say your selling a book and tell what the PRICE for that book is...and PAY your Tax on the sale...BE Honest about it...!

    He's one of those folks that ""MIGHT"" hear Jesus say "Be gone I NEVER knew you"..Notice Jesus doesn't say "Oh you were doing good there for awhile and then went off track...No..Jesus says HE NEVER knew em..from the start they were NOT doing things in HIS name...

    Dobson made it clear to me after I wrote to him that "He never claims or makes a claim to BE a Christian Pastor..OR to have a Ministry...!

    When pressed by me...he didn't want to comment on his "book sales"..practices...

    GO to his web site and ask him about as I did..you'll see..!

    ( I bare him NO ill will..but I am aware of HIS kind )

    PS...Dobson practically DEIFIES the family......Yet God told Abraham to "get thee out thy county and from thy kindred (family)..and from thy fathers house ...GEN 12:1...

    Family didn't seem to matter much to God...!

    IN the NT days...Jesus said..MATT 12:48:50...WHO is my mother..and who is my brethern...ect ect

    So FAMILY isn't so important as knowing Jesus Christ...!

    Dobson is NOT a Pastor no matter how many times he says Jesus...or Amen..and he has NO ministry...!

    What he is running is a CHARITY...and He sells books very effectively to his targeted audience....Christians...!
     
  6. EPHRIAM777

    EPHRIAM777 A REAL NICE GUY..!

    448
    +0
    Eph asks...

    Hey WOLSELEY...??? why did you erase all my posts on this...?

    (Edited by Wolseley to remove link)
     
  7. NoDeceit

    NoDeceit New Member

    65
    +0
    Written by Pastor Darwin Fish

    Dr. James Dobson is founder and president of Focus on the Family, a media and educational organization consisting of 72 separate ministries, each dedicated to the preservation of the home. He is heard on more than four thousand radio facilities around the world and publishes 11 magazines read by 3 million people each month.

    Dr. Dobson has been a licensed psychologist and marriage, family, and child counselor for 24 years. (Taken from the back inside dust jacket of Dobson's book, Solid Answers. )

    During these 24 years, Dr. James C. Dobson has been propagating the gospel of self-esteem, and self-esteem is still (to this day) his "good news".

    In the book of Galatians, we see how Paul dealt with anyone who would propagate a false gospel. In Galatians 1:8-9, Paul writes,

    But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

    What false gospel was Paul dealing with in Galatians? It was a perversion of the true gospel (Galatians 1:7, "pervert the gospel of Christ"). It was Jesus plus the law, Christ plus circumcision. Paul pointed out that following such a gospel would actually separate them from Christ. In other words, it would destroy their soul (Galatians 1:6; 5:2, 4). Dr. Dobson's gospel is just as destructive, and even more erroneous.

    The Galatian heresy did not redefine the basic problem of mankind (which is sin, Romans 3:10-18). All this heresy taught was that the law must be kept. Faith was still to be placed upon Christ, but the law also must be kept to be found righteous before God. Dobson's false gospel actually redefines man's basic problem into a problem of low self-esteem, and then gives the answer to this basic problem -- high self-esteem. It is all in intense deceit, because he speaks of sin and Christ also. But, nonetheless, it boils down to a perverted gospel.

    If you are familiar with Dobson's teaching, you would know that Dobson's basic tenet is this low self-esteem/high self-esteem dilemma and answer. He has propagated this "gospel" at least since the publishing of his book in 1974, Hide or Seek, How To Build Self-Esteem in Your Child . Note how Dobson redefines man's basic problem into "low self-esteem". With emphasis (the three last sentences being written in italics), he writes,

    The matter of personal worth is not only the concern of those who lack it. In a real sense, the health of an entire society depends on the ease with which its individual members can gain personal acceptance. Thus, whenever the keys to self-esteem are seemingly out of reach for a large percentage of the people, as in twentieth-century America, then widespread 'mental illness', neuroticism, hatred, alcoholism, drug abuse, violence, and social disorder will certainly occur. Personal worth is not something humans are free to take or leave. We must have it, and when it is unattainable, everybody suffers. (p. 21)

    There you have Dobson's definition of the problem of mankind. All these problems, according to Dobson, exist because of a shortage of "personal worth". This is Dobson's fiction. The truth is, the reason all these problems exist is because " they did not like to retain God in their knowledge " (Romans 1:28). Therefore,

    God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness [mental illness, neuroticism]; they are whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud [high self-esteem], boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving [hatred], unforgiving, unmerciful ; [alcoholics (drunkards) and drug abusers] (Romans 1:28-31).

    Thus, we have "social disorder" because men have refused to "glorify Him as God, nor were thankful" (Romans 1:21). In other words, all these things are a result of sin (Romans 3:23), not because "the keys of self-esteem are . . . out of reach"!

    So, we have Dobson's gospel which begins with the problem of low self-esteem. His answer ("good news") is, of course, high self- esteem. As he writes in this same book (Hide or Seek),

    The heart of this book, then, is devoted to a description of ten comprehensive 'strategies' for building self-esteem, . . . (p. 21)

    There we have the gospel of Dr. James Dobson in a nutshell. Man's problem? Low-self esteem. The answer? High self-esteem. Compare this with the true gospel. Man's problem? Sin. The answer? Jesus Christ.

    If there was any question as to whether self-esteem was really Dobson's "good news" and his core doctrine, note what Dobson wrote in his book, What Wives Wish Their Husbands Knew About Women,

    Joyce Landorf, the gifted authoress of His Stubborn Love, recently asked people to answer the following question: What would you change about women in general if you could wave some magic wand? My answer, which is now published with the other replies in her book The Fragrance of Beauty, is quoted below: If I could write a prescription for the women of the world, I would provide each one of them with a healthy dose of self-esteem and personal worth (taken three times a day until the symptoms disappear). I have no doubt that this is their greatest need. (p. 35)

    Dobson has "no doubt that this is their greatest need."! Who is Mr. Dobson speaking of? Christians? Non-Christians? He says, ". . . the women of the world,". What is the greatest need for ANY woman? The Lord Jesus Christ! It is NOT ". . . a healthy dose of self-esteem and personal worth . . ."! This is another gospel (Galatians 1:8-9).

    Dr. Dobson is a deceiver, and has deceived the masses. The above is actually only the tip of the iceberg of the false teaching of "America's foremost family counselor". Psychological deceit pervades his writings and material. Several have documented some of this fallacy, yet most refuse to identify the man for what he really is -- a false teacher (2 Peter 2:1-3). The fear of man and political correctness saturates the "Christianity" of today.

    Hope this helps.
     
  8. EliasEmmanuel

    EliasEmmanuel Gomi No Sensei

    748
    +42
    Protestant
  9. stumpsitting101

    stumpsitting101 Senior Member

    491
    +6
    Protestant
    Quote:
    "When pressed by me...he didn't want to comment on his "book sales"..practices..."

    I would have done the same thing as did Mr. Dobson. Since I did not know you personally and you showed no evidence of being an official revenue employee, I would have told you "NONE YA". Who knows, over the phone or by E-Mail, what the intent of the other party may be?

    Quote:
    PS...Dobson practically DEIFIES the family......Yet God told Abraham to "get thee out thy county and from thy kindred (family)..and from thy fathers house ...GEN 12:1...

    How does this Scripture demonstrate Dobson's practically DEIFIES the family? Upon closer and further reading, one will notice that Abram, did not actually leave his family. For sure, he took his father, his wife, the household servants, and Lot. Not exactly leaving his family!

    Quote:
    "Family didn't seem to matter much to God...!"
    I hope you will rethink this one. There are several promises to the people recorded in scriptures, as God's desiring to bring salvation to the entire family of the person.

    Quote:
    IN the NT days...Jesus said..MATT 12:48:50...WHO is my mother..and who is my brethern...ect ect
    So FAMILY isn't so important as knowing Jesus Christ...!

    Knowing the Lord Jesus is the most important event, but the family is right up there close by. This may be me, but I think God is a "Family Man"

    If your Love for the Lord Jesus is not demonstrated and working in your personal family through you, then how is to work and witness in the world.

    Quote:
    "TRUE PASTORS EXPOSE FALSE TEACHERS"
    I will admit that there are some on this list that I am leery of. But How does one determined to be the "True Pastor" who is fully able to expose the "False Teachers"? Yes, there are "True Pastors" and likewise there are "False Teachers", But there are also Wolves in Sheep clothing, which could be labled by some as the "True Pastor", and the reverse for "False Teachers"
    Is it if one doesn't exactually adhere to my personnal rendering of scriptures, this automatically makes one a False Pastor or Teacher?
    We all still need to search the scriptures, We as a whole, still have a long way to go in perfection.
    The "Potter" can fashion only plyable clay, harden clay can only be smashed to pieces, then restart the molding phase again.
    The older I get, the more I've come to realize, that I don't know everything. At the same time, that little I do know, is demonstrated with peace, love, and long suffering for others.
    Make your words soft.
    Peace and Love
    Ken
     
  10. NoDeceit

    NoDeceit New Member

    65
    +0
    Ken,

    There is a Holy Spirit that will guide true believers in truth. The problem we have, is that MOST people who claim to be Christians are not, and MOST churches are false. So when you have a minority group like ourselves challenging everyone, we are instantly suspect.

    Scripture is of no private intrepretation, it says what it says. For example, women should be silent in the church and they are not permited to teach. Simple language, but men will attempt to twist its meaning. We (a true church) take it for what it says.

    As to knowing who is a false teacher, we have a good article on this at our web site. Now someone above posted a link to info that is contrary to us, so I "hope" it is fair to direct you to our web site to so you can see what we really believe.

    In His love,

    al soto


    Edited for violating Rule 3 (No spamming).
     
  11. EliasEmmanuel

    EliasEmmanuel Gomi No Sensei

    748
    +42
    Protestant
    In fact, if your website's any indication, it seems that everybody since the close of the canon has been false EXCEPT your church...."I do not know, as of this date, any other pastor that is in the truth. Nor have I seen any in history other than those recorded in Scripture" (From atruechurch.info) 

    And sometimes the shoe fits.
     
  12. NoDeceit

    NoDeceit New Member

    65
    +0
    And, what's your point? Can you show me from Scripture how someone can be condemned for believing they are the only true church (although we do not believe this)?

    al
     
  13. EliasEmmanuel

    EliasEmmanuel Gomi No Sensei

    748
    +42
    Protestant
    Well, first and foremost.... let's clarify soemthing. Your church's Pastor said very clearly that he knows of no Pastor now or since the Disciples themselves who are/were "in the Truth". And, since according to your website, that makes the people under them Hell-bound adherents to false teachers, is it unreasonable to say that you believe yourselves to be the only true (and truly saved) church that you know of?

    Just trying to figure out where we stand here.
     
  14. edpobre

    edpobre Well-Known Member

    +0
    I have just gone through part one of "What We Stand For" at http://www.atruechurch.info and just as I thought, their group is just as FALSE as all the others.

    They profess belief in the Bible as the word of God but I didn't see their stand on John 8:40 where Jesus SAID he is a MAN and on John 17:1,3 where Jesus SAID to the Father, "...that they may know YOU, the ONLY true God.

    Apostle John wrote that anyone who does NOT stay in the teaching of Christ does NOT have God (2 John 9). And anyone who does NOT have God who CLAIMS to TEACH the WORD of God - is a FALSE teacher.

    Ed
     
  15. EPHRIAM777

    EPHRIAM777 A REAL NICE GUY..!

    448
    +0
    Originally posted by NoDeceit [/i]
    Written by Pastor Darwin Fish

    Dr. James Dobson is founder and president of Focus on the Family, a media and educational organization consisting of 72 separate ministries, each dedicated to the preservation of the home. He is heard on more than four thousand radio facilities around the world and publishes 11 magazines read by 3 million people each month.

    Dr. Dobson has been a licensed psychologist and marriage, family, and child counselor for 24 years. (Taken from the back inside dust jacket of Dobson's book, Solid Answers. )

    During these 24 years, Dr. James C. Dobson has been propagating the gospel of self-esteem, and self-esteem is still (to this day) his "good news".

    In the book of Galatians, we see how Paul dealt with anyone who would propagate a false gospel. In Galatians 1:8-9, Paul writes,

    But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

    What false gospel was Paul dealing with in Galatians? It was a perversion of the true gospel (Galatians 1:7, "pervert the gospel of Christ"). It was Jesus plus the law, Christ plus circumcision. Paul pointed out that following such a gospel would actually separate them from Christ. In other words, it would destroy their soul (Galatians 1:6; 5:2, 4). Dr. Dobson's gospel is just as destructive, and even more erroneous.

    The Galatian heresy did not redefine the basic problem of mankind (which is sin, Romans 3:10-18). All this heresy taught was that the law must be kept. Faith was still to be placed upon Christ, but the law also must be kept to be found righteous before God. Dobson's false gospel actually redefines man's basic problem into a problem of low self-esteem, and then gives the answer to this basic problem -- high self-esteem. It is all in intense deceit, because he speaks of sin and Christ also. But, nonetheless, it boils down to a perverted gospel.

    If you are familiar with Dobson's teaching, you would know that Dobson's basic tenet is this low self-esteem/high self-esteem dilemma and answer. He has propagated this "gospel" at least since the publishing of his book in 1974, Hide or Seek, How To Build Self-Esteem in Your Child . Note how Dobson redefines man's basic problem into "low self-esteem". With emphasis (the three last sentences being written in italics), he writes,

    The matter of personal worth is not only the concern of those who lack it. In a real sense, the health of an entire society depends on the ease with which its individual members can gain personal acceptance. Thus, whenever the keys to self-esteem are seemingly out of reach for a large percentage of the people, as in twentieth-century America, then widespread 'mental illness', neuroticism, hatred, alcoholism, drug abuse, violence, and social disorder will certainly occur. Personal worth is not something humans are free to take or leave. We must have it, and when it is unattainable, everybody suffers. (p. 21)

    There you have Dobson's definition of the problem of mankind. All these problems, according to Dobson, exist because of a shortage of "personal worth". This is Dobson's fiction. The truth is, the reason all these problems exist is because " they did not like to retain God in their knowledge " (Romans 1:28). Therefore,

    God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness [mental illness, neuroticism]; they are whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud [high self-esteem], boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving [hatred], unforgiving, unmerciful ; [alcoholics (drunkards) and drug abusers] (Romans 1:28-31).

    Thus, we have "social disorder" because men have refused to "glorify Him as God, nor were thankful" (Romans 1:21). In other words, all these things are a result of sin (Romans 3:23), not because "the keys of self-esteem are . . . out of reach"!

    So, we have Dobson's gospel which begins with the problem of low self-esteem. His answer ("good news") is, of course, high self- esteem. As he writes in this same book (Hide or Seek),

    The heart of this book, then, is devoted to a description of ten comprehensive 'strategies' for building self-esteem, . . . (p. 21)

    There we have the gospel of Dr. James Dobson in a nutshell. Man's problem? Low-self esteem. The answer? High self-esteem. Compare this with the true gospel. Man's problem? Sin. The answer? Jesus Christ.

    If there was any question as to whether self-esteem was really Dobson's "good news" and his core doctrine, note what Dobson wrote in his book, What Wives Wish Their Husbands Knew About Women,

    Joyce Landorf, the gifted authoress of His Stubborn Love, recently asked people to answer the following question: What would you change about women in general if you could wave some magic wand? My answer, which is now published with the other replies in her book The Fragrance of Beauty, is quoted below: If I could write a prescription for the women of the world, I would provide each one of them with a healthy dose of self-esteem and personal worth (taken three times a day until the symptoms disappear). I have no doubt that this is their greatest need. (p. 35)

    Dobson has "no doubt that this is their greatest need."! Who is Mr. Dobson speaking of? Christians? Non-Christians? He says, ". . . the women of the world,". What is the greatest need for ANY woman? The Lord Jesus Christ! It is NOT ". . . a healthy dose of self-esteem and personal worth . . ."! This is another gospel (Galatians 1:8-9).

    Dr. Dobson is a deceiver, and has deceived the masses. The above is actually only the tip of the iceberg of the false teaching of "America's foremost family counselor". Psychological deceit pervades his writings and material. Several have documented some of this fallacy, yet most refuse to identify the man for what he really is -- a false teacher (2 Peter 2:1-3). The fear of man and political correctness saturates the "Christianity" of today.

    Hope this helps.


    Eph writes...

    Well...I just know him for what he claims he is..He is a Pschologist who writes and sells books to Christians...!

    Now sometimes the guy is on the ball and IS helpful to people...BUT..that doesn't make him a Christian Pastor worthy of recieving "offerings"...sell yer books and be honest about it..is all I would tell em...! Leave the Pastoring to real Pastors...!
     
  16. NoDeceit

    NoDeceit New Member

    65
    +0
    Ed, I did not understand your last post. How are we false teachers?

    2nd- To Elias, we do not know every individual on this planet, and from what we have read in history, we have not found any true believers in that history.

    OK, having said that, my question to you which has not been answered is--how from Scripture can we condemn a group/individuals/church for believing they are the only true believers presently alive (once again we do not believe this, nor could we know such a thing)?

    Thanks.
    al
     
  17. EliasEmmanuel

    EliasEmmanuel Gomi No Sensei

    748
    +42
    Protestant
    But you're dancing around the issue.... does you Pastor (and thus church) claim that no other single Christian or Church _that_he_knows_of_, in almost 2000 years, has ever been fully "in the truth", or does he not? He sure seems to. And that seems to be seperated from "we are the only true Christians on earth" only by semantics.

     Well, Galatians 5:20 lists that sort of claim as one of the fruits of the Sinful nature..... but I'd say such a group's claim could be weighed against their fruit and adherence to scriptural truth. Given Mr. Fish's apparent tendancy to make strange extrapolations from isolated scriptures and insist that these ideas are some obvious truth on which salvation hinges (in fact, that salvation is balanced on even the smallest issue, contradicting Romans 14 and scriptures like it), and the fruit that this group seems to bear (which is not, from what I've seen, the fruits of the spirit laid out in Galatians)....... I'd say scripture condemns Mr. Fish's teaching and methods pretty clearly.
     
  18. NoDeceit

    NoDeceit New Member

    65
    +0
    Try again Elias....Gal 5:20? Do you remember that Elijah thought he was the only one. Did got rebuke him for thinking that?

    al
     
  19. NoDeceit

    NoDeceit New Member

    65
    +0
    To the Chief Musician. On an eight-stringed harp. A Psalm of David. Help, Lord, for the godly man ceases! For the faithful disappear from among the sons of men. (Psalm 12:1)

    Even in David's day, in the midst of those who had the oracles of God (Psalm 147:19-20; Romans 3:2), who had the Word of the living God in the correct religion, there were few godly men. There were few who were saved (Matthew 7:13-14). Few who knew God and were on their way to heaven. Few who would not end up in hell. Solomon wrote,

    Most men will proclaim each his own goodness, but who can find a faithful man? (Proverbs 20:6)

    With few exceptions, faithful men, men who are saved (Psalm 31:23; 78:8, 37; 101:6; Proverbs 28:18; Matthew 24:45-51; 25:21-23; Luke 12:42-48; 16:10-12; 19:17; Revelation 2:10; 17:14) have always been hard to find.

    Although Scripture gives no record of any godly people of the past 1900 years, the Word does give us a general description of this time. The general description is bad.

    Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. (1 Timothy 4:1-3)

    1 Timothy 4:1-3 describes much of "historical Christianity," because 1 Timothy 4:1-3 describes, at the very least, the Catholic Church (see our report on Catholicism ). The majority of what is commonly called "Church History" is Catholic. For proof of this, take a good look at the 38 volumes of The Early Church Fathers edited by Philip Schaff and Alexander Roberts. This covers "the first 800 years of the church" (Christian Book Distributors, January/February 2001 catalog, p. 42), that is, the Catholic Church. Much of "church history" is Catholic (see our report on the Early Church Fathers ). In other words, much of church history (provided the documents are accurate) is about those who departed from the faith, gave heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, and spoke lies in hypocrisy (1 Timothy 4:1-3).

    God?s description continues:

    But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! (2 Timothy 3:1-5)

    These are the Lord's words regarding "Christianity" in the last days. How do we know it is "Christianity" to which He refers? He says they have " a form of godliness ," and this passage is within a "Christian" context (2 Timothy 2 & 4).

    How soon did these " perilous times " come? Paul warned Timothy they would come in his days.

    I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom: Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. (2 Timothy 4:1-4)

    Who are the " they "? Who are the ones who " will not endure sound doctrine . . ."? The only people in the context are those to whom Timothy was to preach. The reason Paul said, " Preach the word ," " convince, rebuke, " etc., is because Paul was warning Timothy that he had better do this while he can. " For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables " (2 Timothy 4:1-4). It?s been bad since Timothy?s time!

    Actually, things began to go awry quite early on in that early church. The Galatians were fed a false gospel (Galatians 1:6), and Paul wrote them saying,

    I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel. (Galatians 1:6)

    The Corinthians had several problems (read 1 Corinthians), and questioned Paul?s apostleship being heavily influenced by false apostles (2 Corinthians 11:1-15). Thus, Paul wrote them saying they should examine themselves to see whether they were even in the faith (2 Corinthians 13:5).

    In Philippians Paul mourns over "Christians" that had already turned away from Christ.

    Brethren, join in following my example, and note those who so walk, as you have us for a pattern. For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: whose end is destruction, whose god is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame - who set their mind on earthly things. (Philippians 3:17-19)

    While Paul was still on this earth there were " many " who had turned from heavenly mindedness to earthly mindedness, having set their minds on the things of the flesh (Romans 8:5). Likewise, during Paul's days there were already " so many, peddling the word of God " (2 Corinthians 2:17). These are those false Christians " who suppose that godliness is a means of gain " (1 Timothy 6:5). Paul said, even in his time, there were " so many ."
     
  20. TheBear

    TheBear Free Agent

    +1,615
    Atheist
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    ND,

    It is abundantly clear that it is you who is following a false teacher. There are many different denominations represented here at Christian Forums, and some doctrinal differences, but none as bizzare as the teachings of "Darwin Fish". :(
     
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