False Prophets and Teachers?

[fieldsofwind]

hello edward... I find it somewhat humerous that you did not address the post ed... are they things that you did not want to attempt to twist because you knew it would be an obvious effort on your part?

Posted by edpobre: "You are saying that Christ is God the Father who BECAME Christ and Christ BECAME subservient to HIMSELF being the Father, right? Thus, when Christ lifted his eyes to heaven and SAID, "Father, the hour has come..." (John 17:1), he was ACTUALLY praying to himself, he being the Father, right? And he was also crying out to himself on the cross when he said, "my God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" Your belief is FALSE fow. Christ CAME as a HUMAN being and anyone that says he CAME as God the Father who BECAME a MAN has the spirit of the ENEMY of Christ (1 John 4:1-3)."


According to you. You have no way of proving how it is 'false', and acctually... I have proven that your's is. You seem to think it impossible for God to take the nature of man... and come to earth in the flesh as He did indeed do. I notice that you conveniently never address a certain aspect of Hebrews... but we will get to that later.


Posted by edpobre: "Look at Hebrews 9:14 fow. It says, "Christ offered HIMSELF unblemished TO God. If Christ were God, there would be TWO Gods which is NOT what the Bible teaches."

Once again... only in your view does it mean there are two of anything. Christ obviously took off the 'robe' of being God to take on the 'robe' of sin. He submitted Himself to God, from whom He came (get it... whom He was, from whom He came), to be able to sacrifice Himself for us. Here is the Hebrews aspect ed... In Hebrews... the verse is posted in the other posts... it says that the sacrifice was necessary because the covenant could not go into effect until the ONE WHO MADE IT was still living. I ask you ed!!! WHO MADE THE COVENANT!!!???

Posted by edpobre: "Did you read Acts 2:36? Doesn't it say that God MADE Jesus both "LORD and Christ?"

Ed... you are not grasping what took place. Do you think that God... once He took the nature of man... made Himself nothing... now being the Christ... could He do anything on His own??? No... The Father... (remember...from whom He came)... did indeed make Him Lord. The Christ... was nothing, remember? (Made HIMSELF nothing phil 2) And furhermore... this again contrasts Isaiah 42:8...

Posted by edpobre: "How can God and Jesus be the SAME"

Simple... they must be according to God's word: (Hebrews 9:14,16-17) How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God! In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while THE ONE WHO MADE IT is living. Did God not Make the covenant ed?

Posted by ed: "John 14:5-10 does NOT tell us that Jesus is God the Father"

According to you ed... but lets see what others see if they read it huh?
The Bible says: (John 14:5-10) Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?" Jesus answered, "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us." Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work."


Posted by ed: "The "HE" refers to the MAN that the WORD of God turned into. The WORD has NO gender fow, just to let you know.
Rev. 19:13 refers to Jesus. Jesus is the MAN that the WORD turned into (the WORD became Jesus, remember?). Thus, Jesus BECAME the WORD of God AFTER he was born. This is NOT what I am asking for."

Really... well this 'man' was with God in the beginning... through this 'man' all things were made... and without Him NOTHING was made that has been made. This 'man' was given the title KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. Would this not be an example of God giving His glory to 'another'. Do you not claim that Christ is 'another' If He is not God (as you claim), then He would be 'another'... and this would not be 'glory'... KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS??? HE IS GOD who became like a man... took our nature.

This 'man' is described here ed... lets let others see what it says... they should be able to tell since God is not the author of confusion: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it... The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth."

Posted by ed: "But anyone can see that everything you have posted so far are TWISTED interpretation of Isaiah 48:2."

Really ed??? Well lets get a post of that verse on down here... here we go: “I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not give my glory to another”

now you state they are two different things... yet... God makes Christ... the KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS... the Alpha and the Omega... the Beginning and the End... the First and the Last... the Lord of Glory... Thomas cries out to Him 'my Lord and my God'... the Prince of Peace... the Redeemer... the Holy One of Israel... In Hebrews the Father says about the Son... "Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever."

If they are two different beings as YOU state... then God is indeed giving His glory to another... those titles are diety are they not? But this would contradict God's own words.

The fact is that Christ is indeed God who became like man... making Himself nothing... God is the Beginning and the End... He alone is God... Yet Christ is also called God by God.
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[fieldsofwind]

ed... I do care for you, but you have to believe if you want to see. God became like man... became subservient even to death... to become our sacrifice. In doing so, He gave up the ability to do things from His own power, but instead became like a man... and had to place His trust in the Father. God, (who became like a man in Christ), also retained being God. This also must be true, because God will not stop being God either. Therefore, because of His love (through which all of us were created) He became our sacrifice. This means that He had to do what is described above. The Son of God is God who became like man. Simple, and yet so complex! All of the verses in the Bible that you have given and the have been given by the field guy are in line with this. However, it is the Spirit that testifies to the truth, and He is whom I have been listening. God is love, and Christ is God who through His love became like man to die for us. Believe it. If Christ were just a man... none of the verses posted here below would be able to be true. They would all be examples of God giving His glory to another. You claim that by God giving His glory to 'a man' (another) He was in fact glorifying Himself. But, that is not what God said... He did not say He would give it to another because it was going to come back and glorify Him. He DID say that He would not give it away... period! Here are some facts for you. And your claims about John 1 are completely self-fabricated. God was not trying to trick people when He breathed those words into existence. The words clearly indicate that the Word is this "He" who is being spoken of, who was God and became flesh. Take care:


1) 1 Corinthians 2:8-- None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

2) (John 14:5-10) Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?" Jesus answered, "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us." Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work."

3) (John 1:1-5, 14) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it... The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

4) (Revelation 19:13) He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.

5) (Phil 2:5-10) Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in APPEARANCE as a man, he HUMBLED HIMSELF and BECAME obedient to death--even death on a cross! Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, (Reminder: God will not give His glory to another... He is the LORD and Him alone), that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

6) (Rev 19:16) On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. (Isaiah 42:8--I am the LORD: that is my name! I will not give my glory to another or my praise to idols.)

7) (Hebrews 9:14) How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God! (Hebrews 9:16-17) In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while THE ONE WHO MADE IT is living. (Did God not make the covenant? These verses are very clear as to who had to die)

8) Hebrews 1:5 For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son: today I have become your Father.” Hebrews 1:8 But about the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.” Hebrews 1:10 He also says, “In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands.” (Notice at the beginning of this God says “TODAY… I have become your Father… indicating that He wasn’t always… while Christ says many times that He is the Beginning and the End… indicating the claim I AM)

9) Revelation 22:13—(Jesus speaking) “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.”

10) Colossians 2:9—For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form

11) Titus 2:13—While we wait for the blessed hope—the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ

12) John 20:28—Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

13) John 18:3-6—So Judas came to the grove, guiding a detachment of soldiers and some officials from the chief priests and Pharisees. They were carrying torches, lanterns and weapons. Jesus, knowing all that was going to happen to him, went out and asked them, “Who is it you want?” “Jesus of Nazareth,” they replied. “I am he,” Jesus said. (And Judas the traitor was standing there with them.) When Jesus said, “I am he,” they drew back and fell to the ground.

14) Revelation 5:11-14--Then I looked and heard the voice of many angels, numbering thousands upon thousands, and ten thousand times ten thousand. They encircled the throne and the living creatures and the elders. In a loud voice they sang: "Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and praise!" THen I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing: "To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever! The four living creatures said, "Amen," and the elders fell down and worshiped. ------- Matthew 4:10--Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only."

15) Acts 3:15--You killed the author of life, but God raised him from the dead. We are witnesses of this. (Who is the author of life?)

16) We recieved the Spirit of God correct? (Joel 2:28) (2 Cor 1:21-22--Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a desposit, guaranteeing what is to come.) Then how is it that God's word also says that God sent the Spirit of Christ into us... unless Christ's Spirit is the Spirit of God? There are not two different Spirits within me, but one! Galatians 4:6--Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, "Abba, Father."
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About the Spirit:

1) John 4:24--"God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."

2) 2 Cor 3:17-18--"Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit."

3) Galatians 4:6--Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, "Abba, Father."------- Same as Spirit of God------Acts 2:4--All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit...------ Joel 2:28--"And afterward, I will pour out my Spirit on all people...

4) John 14:15-17--"If you love me, you will obey what I command. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever--the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. (notice Christ says that the Spirit lives with them already... yet has not been given to them yet... hmm... who does this indicate the Spirit is as well) Matthew 28:20--"and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age." The Spirit is within us... and Christ says... "I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

5) 1 Cor 2:10- --but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

 

[fieldsofwind]

THAT is who Christ is ed....

and again.... who is the AUTHOR of life???

take care, and believe

FOW

 

[edpobre]

Originally posted by gunnysgt
Spiritual Authority: The Word and the Testimony
by A.W. Tozer, 1950

But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies ... 2 Pet. 2:1

Whatever it may be in our Christian experience that originates outside of Scriptures should, for that very reason, be suspect until it can be shown to be in accord with them. 

If it should be found to be contrary to the Word of revealed truth no true Christian will accept it as being from God. However high the emotional content, no experience can be proved to be genuine unless we can find chapter and verse authority for it in Scriptures. "To the word and to the testimony" must always be the last and final proof.

I totally agree and thanks to gunnysgt for pasting this here. Now, the following beliefs must be examined in light of the above. Can we find chapter and verse that CLEARLY and UNEQUIVOCBLY supports the following beliefs:

1. One is saved by "faith ALONE";

2. One need NOT be baptized to be saved;

3. One need NOT be a member of "the" TRUE church to be saved;

4. Once saved ALWAYS saved;

5. Jesus is God;

6. God is ONE in THREE, THREE IN ONE;

7. God BECAME man;

Whatever is new or singular should also be viewed with caution until it can furnish scriptural proof of its validity. Thoughout the twentieth century quite a number of unscriptural notions have gained acceptance among Christians by claiming that they were among truths that were to be revealed in the last days.

I totally agree! Preterism and Universalism are doctrines that NEED to be scrutinized thoroughly. 

The truth is that the Bible does not teach that there will be new light and advanced spiritual experiences in the latter days; it teaches the exact opposite! Nothing in Daniel or the New Testament epistles can be tortured into advocating the idea that we of the end of the Christian era shall enjoy light that was not known at its beginning.

That's true. However, as foretold by Jesus and the apostles, there was a "turning away" from the faith and the "light" that shone brightly during the apostles' time turned into darkness.

The "light" that is now being preached is the SAME light that was preached during Jesus and the apostles' time. And the MAN commissioned by God to RENEW the preaching of the "light" has been FORETOLD in the Bible since the days of the prophet Isaiah.

Beware of any man who claims to be wiser than the apostles or holier than the martyrs of the Early Church. The best way to deal with him is to rise and leave his presence!

If "martyrs of the Early Church" means those who were KILLED for REFUSING to "depart from the true faith," I totally agree.

Ed

 

[edpobre]

Originally posted by Rising_Suns
hey ed, I enjoyed your post about what is more pleasing to the ear. There's just one thing you mentioned:

I totlly agree. How many times have you heard people say that they TALK to God, Jesus or the Holy Spirit in their dreams? This is ONLY in their heads. These FALSE teachers FAIL to realize that the ONLY way to talk to God regarding His PLANS and INSTRUCTIOS is through His WORD - the Bible.

God can really talk to us through any means He chooses to. I believe where the deception comes into play, is being able to discern what is from God and what isn't. I would say that many false teachers are tricked by Satan into thinking that a message is from God but realy isn't.

Thanks for the nice comment. But I return the praise to God. I totally agree with what you are saying.

Ed 

 

[Anthony]

If you're going to give Names please give examples of their false doctrine.

We all start out putting our faith not in God or the Bible, but in the teachers, i.e. the pastors, priests, and ministers who told us about Jesus. We sat and listen, and many never picked up a bible to find out for themselve to see if what the person is saying jives with the Bible. As we become more mature christians we need to take responsiblity our beliefs we have, and not just me-too to what we hear on Sundays or our favorite radio and television preachers. We all become lazy with the pre-package word; myself included.

 

[fieldsofwind]

Regarding assertion number in edpobre's post

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------It is through faith that we are considered righteous. The same was true in the OT... consider Abraham...

It is a result of our faith that we recieve the Spirit of Christ... who then gives us the desire to live by God and not by the sinful nature that has been put to death in Christ's death. This results in action/fruit. It is the same concept and it is completely true. Our faith, if real, will result in action for God through God's Spirit within us. It is still not of our own good deeds or abilities, but of God's. While the flesh will still tempt the Christian... he does not have to live by that nature anymore. He has been made new in Christ, therefore through Christ he will desire to be like Christ. The Christian may still fall into sin, but the difference is that Christ's blood covers over those sins. And, Christ's Spirit that was put into us through faith gives us the desire and strength to overcome sin. If we have the Spirit we will have the desire and strength to overcome. If we do not have the Spirit, and then indeed we were never made new in Christ through faith, then we will not have any new desire, or strength. Thus there will be no works that glorify our Father in heaven. Some here may want to take a long look at Colossians 2 and 1 Cor 10:23-33 about freedom from human regulations.

Ephesians 2:1-9--As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath. But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions--it is by grace you have been saved.--2:8-9--For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--not by works, so that no one can boast.

2 Cor 5:14-21--For Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again. So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to himself through Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God. God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

Galatians 3:18--For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on a promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.--3:21-22--Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law. But the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe.

Romans 3:21-24 --But now a righteousness from God, apart from the law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.--4:3--What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credidted to him as righteousness."

(Here is where we see the products of faith, the actions) Romans 4:16-25--Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham's offspring--not only to those who are of the law but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all. As it is written: "I have made you a father of many nations." He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed--the God who gives life to the dead and calls things that are not as though they were. Against all hope, Abraham in hope believed and so became the father of many nations, just as it had been said to him, "So shall your offspritng be." Without weakening in his faith, he faced the fact that his body was as good as dead--since he was about a hundred years old--and that Sarah's womb was also dead. Yet he did not waver through unbelief regarding the promise of God, but was strengthened in his faith and gave glory to God, being fully persuaded that God had power to do what he had promised. This is why "it was credited to him as righteousness." The words "it was credited to him" were written not for him alone, but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness--for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.

Galatians 5:16-17--So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. Fot the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want.

Colossians 3:1--Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is seated at the right had of God.

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Regarding number two... ed seems to think that one must be baptized with water to be saved.

Baptism with water is a product of salvation... we are to imitate Christ in this, however, it is not a prerequisite of salvation.

It is the baptism of the Holy Spirit that we recieve through faith... this is when the Spirit of God is placed within us as a product of our belief in Christ.

Acts 1:5--For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit... (Thiis was Christ speaking before He was taken up to heaven)

Galatians 3:6--Consider Abraham: "He believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness." (See, it was not circumcision that justified Abraham. It was faith that justified him.)

Galatians 3:26--You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. (Does this mean baptism with water? No, it means baptism in Christ... the following: Ephesians 2:6--And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus)

Here is the analogy... those who think that being baptized is required to be saved are the same as those who thought that being circumcised was required to be a jew.

Romans 2:25-29--Circumcision has value if you observe the law, but if you break the law, you have become as though you had not been circumcised. If those who are not circumcised keep the law's requirements, will they not be regarded as though they were circumcised? The one who is not circumcised physically and yet obeys the law will condmn you who , even though you have the written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker. A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly: and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God.

People will quote a few verses saying: "see... you must be baptized to be saved"... but what they fail to understand is that this baptism they are speaking of is the baptism of the heart by the Spirit, and it only comes through faith... not from our works so that no man can boast!

Romans 3:21-22--But now a righteousness from God, apart from the law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference

 

[fieldsofwind]

Also, Romans 6:1-4--What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

This is not baptism with water, but this is what that baptism sybolizes! This is the baptism we recieved through Faith alone in Christ! It is of the Spirit.

 

[fieldsofwind]

We will get to ed's 3rd assertion last... lets skip to number four.

Once saved always saved... (ed must think that this is false)

Well... lets see what God says about it!

Most people say... well look at all of the verses implying that we need to stand firm... to the end. Or, they point to verses indicating that we must continue to do God's work. These things are all good and necessary, but they are not requirements for salvation as noted in the above posts. Also, if one does sin, (which will happen), it does not mean that he has lost his salvation. God says that nothing can take you out of His hand. Being a Christian has resulted in us becoming a new creation in Christ. Basically, while the flesh will still tempt us, and we may fall, we have been cleansed through Christ once and for all. We have been given the Spirit of God, which desires to do God's work in us. This is the "new creation" in that we have God's Spirit, and He has given us the desire and ability to overcome the sin that tempts us. Where we used to live and make decisions based on our own sinful nature, we now are compelled by the Spirit to live for God. This will produce the fruits of the Spirit.

Romans 6:6-10—For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin—because anyone who has died has been freed from sin. Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.

Romans 8:1-10—Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit. Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God. You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness.

Now some will say… “What about this man that sins a lot??”

They should look at themselves… and realize that it is through Christ that any of us do any good. Those who sin “a lot” are obviously still very tempted by the flesh. Christ says that His Spirit He gave us will desire to make us like Him. We are a new creation in Christ. Those who sin without any desire to do otherwise do not have God’s Spirit. Those who sin, yet know their error, and desire to do otherwise, do indeed have the Spirit. Why? Because the Spirit is the only reason that they could know what the sinful nature is. The Spirit is the only source of desire to do things against our sinful nature. When we receive the Spirit through faith, we become new in Christ. Our desires change, indeed we change.

Here are verses indicating that we cannot lose our salvation from Christ.

John 10:27-30—“My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.”

Romans 8:1-2—Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death.

Romans 8:38-39—For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 9:16—It does not, therefore, depend on man’s desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.

Romans 10:4—Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

Many point to Hebrews 10:26-29 as a proof that people can lose salvation. However, a close look at these verses reveals that it is speaking to those who have heard the gospel of truth, and not to those who have been saved by that same gospel!

“If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge o the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?”

The whole revolves around the words…“who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him.” So, lets look at the word sanctified. Does it mean that one has been saved? The dictionary describes it as being able to say what I believe it means: to set apart--consecrate/to give religious sanction to, as with an oath or vow. Now with this understanding… is it not true that the blood of the covenant is for all men? Have not all men been given the promise of the new covenant through Christ’s blood by God? Is it not true that we have been set apart by this new covenant… with a promise from God. However, does this mean that we have all believed God, and received the gift of the Holy Spirit? No. This verse is warning those who have been among the believers, and yet is still living by the sinful nature.

The other verse they often quote (for some reason??) is Hebrews 6:4-6—It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Now… this is saying one of two things. Some take it to say that those who have been saved can lose their salvation. Well… if it is saying this, then it is also saying that they can never be saved again (brought back into repentance). What it must say then… is that those who have shared in the Holy Spirit cannot be “brought back” into repentance (or saved again if they fall away) because the sacrifice that Christ made was once and for all. To be “re-saved” would mean to crucify Him all over again, which cannot be done. Therefore those who have believed have received Christ’s sacrifice, and are completely covered by it. No amount of sin can uncover what has been covered by Christ’s blood.

I believe what my Father has said… and this is that NOTHING can take me out of His hand. I believe

FOW

 

[fieldsofwind]

5, 6, and 7 are all described in detail in the following:

 

[fieldsofwind]

Posted by ed: I know what is in the Bible fow. But that is not my question. I said you are NOT being RATIONAL because you said that this "thing" who is at the the side of the Father is "one and the SAME thing as the Father." BTW, what is this you cal "thing" fow?

you are the one that refered to 'thing'

Posted by ed: "Then show me the verse which says that the Father BECAME the SON."

The Bible says: (John 14:5-10) Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?" Jesus answered, "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us." Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work."

The Bible says: (John 1:1-5, 14) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it... The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

The Bible says: (Revelation 19:13) He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.

The Bible says: (Phil 2:5-10) Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in APPEARANCE as a man, he HUMBLED HIMSELF and BECAME obedient to death--even death on a cross! Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, (Reminder: God will not give His glory to another... He is the LORD and Him alone), that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

The Bible says this was necessary: (Hebrews 9:14) How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God!

The Bible says: (Hebrews 9:16-17) In the cse of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while THE ONE WHO MADE IT is living.

Did God not make the covenant???

The Bible says: (Rev 19:16) On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. (Remeber God says that I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not give my glory to another or my praise to idols. (Isaiah 42:8)


well ed.... Christ says that HE is the Alapha and the Omega... the Beginning and the End... the First and the Last..... as does the Father. I ask you ed... are they not claiming the saim thing??? if two things come in first in a race... are they not of equal speed??? simple

ed's reply: If that's how you think, do you admit then that you believe there are two "Gods" whom you pass off as "things?"

No ed... that's not how I think.. They both say it ed... God says that there are no others... therefore they are one... they are both the Alpha and the Omega... the Beginning and the End... ther FIRST AND THE LAST!!!

Why did God create the earth ed??? It was because He desired a love relationship with a creation... Love ed... "Through Him all things were made that have been made" (John 1)... God is Love (1st John 4:8)... and through His love, He came to us. (also John 1) There are not two separate 'things' as you say ed... there is one Living God who is omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent. He is undescribable... and says that He IS.

When God made Himself a man... it was His love.... Jesus Christ... and He subjected himself to endure mans punishment, and subservience. This was His sacrifice, that He became our sins... God the Father can not be in the presence of sin, much less become it. Therefore, out of His uncomprehendible love... He made Himself nothing. He came to us and His name is Jesus Christ-Emmanuel-God with us: Yes... God can do that, even becoming something on earth, while at the same time being God the Father in Heaven. Yes... God can do any number of "evens" that one could fathom asking.

Christ, who being in very nature God, who made Himself nothing, became subject to God the Father... and at the end when all things were finished, was taken again into glory and given the title KING OF KINGS AND LORD OR LORDS... ALL CAPS ED. This is the title reserved for the LORD HIMSELF... WHO WILL NOT GIVE HIS GLORY TO ANOTHER... IT IS THE TITLE OF MY LORD CHRIST WHO IS RISEN FROM THE GRAVE HAVING DEFEATED DEATH... AND THE KEYS OF DEATH AND HADES RESIDE IN HIS HANDS! And after it is all over... Christ will subject Himself to the Father thus the Father becomes all in all. Christ is God... who made>HIMSELF<a man... and who was then again glorified by Him from whom He came

I believe
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Posted by edpobre: "I wonder if Einstein would agree to this "out of space" equation!"

I wonder if you have read 1 cor. chapter 1. God says that he delights in the fact that man finds Himself as foolishness.
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Posted by edpobre: "You really are FORCING a square peg into a round hole Ben. How can Jesus, a SEPARATE personality, be ABSOLUTE God when he does NOT know EVERYTHING the Father knows?"


Got something for you here ed... look this up.

Revelation chapter 19:12

take care

FOW
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not give my glory to another or my praise to idols. (Isaiah 42:8)


Ed... who is the Lord of Glory?

scroll down








1 Corinthians 2:8-- None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
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[fieldsofwind]

Posted by edpobre: “The Lord of Glory is Jesus. Don't you know that God MADE Jesus LORD? Read Acts 2:36.”

Here ed… you are contradicting every part of: I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not give my glory to another or my praise to idols. (Isaiah 42:8)

What does the LORD say ed? He says that He will NOT do what you are saying He did. Explain that one. Of course… that is unless they are one in the same (which they are)

Posted by edpobre: “If you THINK God the Father BECAME Jesus because of YOUR interpretation of these verses, then answer me HONESTLY fow, who is the Father to whom Jesus was praying in John 17:1”

Here ed… lets let everyone read this and see what they see… how about it?

“The Bible says: (John 14:5-10) Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?" Jesus answered, "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us." Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work."

You ask: “Who is the Father to whom Jesus was praying in John 17:1?” Your dimensional understanding does not limit the Father ed. He is the LORD of LORDS… He is the Alpha and the Omega… the Beginning and the End… the First and the Last… He is the Living God who says that there are no others but Him. He is the Savior… He is the Redeemer. All of these things Christ claims as well.

However… you say that God made Him these things… and that He gave all of this to Christ. Ah ha, but ed… that contradicts the very character of God… He says that He will NOT give these things to another… He says that there are no others but Him. Therefore Christ is God the Father who TOOK the nature of a man, out of His own Love… He says that He made HIMSELF a man… no one else did this to Him. God did not make… some sub-god a man… He made HIMSELF a man. This is the Father to whom the one who came from the Father prayed to during the time that He made Himself nothing.

Posted by edpobre: “While it is true that Jesus (the MAN into which the WORD that was God BECAME) is the WORD of God”

You say that the Word is God… and that it came into a man. However, God says that The “He” (the “He” that you refer to as a mere man) was with God in the Beginning. So, basically… the “Word was God” refers to this “He” who was with God in the Beginning.

(In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it... The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.)

Posted by edpobre: “show me a scripture which says that <I>Jesus WAS the WORD</I> that was God <I>BEFORE he WAS born.</I>”

The Bible says: (Revelation 19:13) He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.
Posted by edpobre: “Apostle Paul SAID: there is ONLY ONE God, the FATHER (1 Cor. 8:6)”

Here… I will post the verse for you ed: “yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and from whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.”

First of all… read the verse… tell me… do you think that this verse is saying that they are two different beings? It is not… Furthermore… this does explain exactly what we have been discussing here. God the Father had to fulfill His covenant. He had to become the ultimate sacrifice for man… you want to see this in the Bible? >>> Here you go: The Bible says, (Hebrews 9:16-17), In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while THE ONE WHO MADE IT is living. Through what was man made (as the verse indicates)? I say that it was through Love that God created us. (Remember through Him all things were made that have been made: John 1) Also, 1 John 4:9—“This is how God showed His love among us: He sent His one and only Son into the world that we might live through Him.” 1 John 4:19—“We love because He first loved us.” I also know that God is love (1 John 4:8 and 4:16) This “Love” whom He is… desired to become our sacrifice: (Remember… the greatest love is willing to lay down his own life for his friend)… Importance on “HIS OWN.” You may say… God will not make Himself nothing therefore being able to sacrifice Himself. Why ed? Is God unwilling to do this? Is He too self-seeking to allow Himself to become humble and submit Himself to death? How would this be if Love is not self-seeking, and God is Love? (1 Corinthians 13:5)

Therefore: From an earlier post---When God made Himself a man... it was love.... Jesus Christ... and He subjected himself to endure mans punishment, and subservience. (Which is why you see Him in subservience to the Father) This was His sacrifice, that He became our sins... God the Father can not be in the presence of sin, much less become it. Therefore, out of His uncomprehendable love... He made Himself nothing. He came to us and His name is Jesus Christ-Emmanuel-God with us: Yes... God can do that, even becoming something on earth, while at the same time being God the Father in Heaven. Yes... God can do any number of "evens" that one could fathom asking.

Posted by edpobre: “Sure, God and Jesus are BOTH Alpha and Omega. They BOTH said "I am the Alpha and the Omega." But that does NOT make them ONE God. Alpha and Omega does NOT mean the same to God as it means to Jesus.”

Really… according to whom ed? Are you now speaking for Christ… saying what He is and is not? I simply believe what He says. I believe what He says to me through His Spirit. And I believe what He says in His word. I do not try to twist things around as you do. And if you say you haven’t, then answer all of the questions pertaining to Isaiah 42:8

Posted by edpobre: “Show me the verse that says "God MADE Himself a MAN.”

Well ed… Christ, in the word of God, says that He made HIMSELF nothing. The word does not say some separate being made Him nothing… it says He made Himself nothing. You seem to indicate that God gave some other being everything indicated in the above posts (coming with info straight out of the word)… The problem is that God HIMSELF says that He will NOT do exactly what you say He did. Here-- The Bible says: (Phil 2:5-10) Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in APPEARANCE as a man, he HUMBLED HIMSELF and BECAME obedient to death--even death on a cross! Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, (Reminder: God will not give His glory to another... He is the LORD and Him alone), that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Posted by edpobre: “Earlier, you said that God the Father BECAME Jesus Christ. Now you are saying that Christ BECAME subject to God the Father.”
Well ed… the Bible says that the Word (who was God) became flesh. It is the flesh (who was God) that became subservient to the very God (the only God) from whom He came.

Posted by edpobre: “ Christ will SUBJECT himself to HIM (meaning God) who placed ALL things under his feet (1 Cor. 15:28). Finally, God will again become "Lord of Lords."

You say “again” meaning that there was time when He was not… a time where it was Christ. However, this again contradicts the nature of God. He says that HE WILL NOT give His glory to another. Yet Christ is the Lord of Glory. This can only mean that Christ is the same as the one who spoke this: “I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not give my glory to another”

The fact is ed, that you are indeed wrong. You have allowed darkness to pervert what God says. Believe Him ed!

Christ, who being in very nature God, who made Himself nothing, became subject to God the Father... and at the end when all things were finished, was taken again into glory and given the title KING OF KINGS AND LORD OR LORDS... ALL CAPS ED. This is the title reserved for the LORD HIMSELF... WHO WILL NOT GIVE HIS GLORY TO ANOTHER... IT IS THE TITLE OF MY LORD CHRIST WHO IS RISEN FROM THE GRAVE HAVING DEFEATED DEATH... AND THE KEYS OF DEATH AND HADES RESIDE IN HIS HANDS! And after it is all over... Christ will subject Himself to the Father thus the Father becomes all in all. Christ is God... who made>HIMSELF<a man... and who was then again glorified by Him from whom He came

I believe
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[fieldsofwind]

hello edward... I find it somewhat humerous that you did not address the post ed... are they things that you did not want to attempt to twist because you knew it would be an obvious effort on your part?

Posted by edpobre: "You are saying that Christ is God the Father who BECAME Christ and Christ BECAME subservient to HIMSELF being the Father, right? Thus, when Christ lifted his eyes to heaven and SAID, "Father, the hour has come..." (John 17:1), he was ACTUALLY praying to himself, he being the Father, right? And he was also crying out to himself on the cross when he said, "my God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" Your belief is FALSE fow. Christ CAME as a HUMAN being and anyone that says he CAME as God the Father who BECAME a MAN has the spirit of the ENEMY of Christ (1 John 4:1-3)."


According to you. You have no way of proving how it is 'false', and acctually... I have proven that your's is. You seem to think it impossible for God to take the nature of man... and come to earth in the flesh as He did indeed do. I notice that you conveniently never address a certain aspect of Hebrews... but we will get to that later.


Posted by edpobre: "Look at Hebrews 9:14 fow. It says, "Christ offered HIMSELF unblemished TO God. If Christ were God, there would be TWO Gods which is NOT what the Bible teaches."

Once again... only in your view does it mean there are two of anything. Christ obviously took off the 'robe' of being God to take on the 'robe' of sin. He submitted Himself to God, from whom He came (get it... whom He was, from whom He came), to be able to sacrifice Himself for us. Here is the Hebrews aspect ed... In Hebrews... the verse is posted in the other posts... it says that the sacrifice was necessary because the covenant could not go into effect until the ONE WHO MADE IT was still living. I ask you ed!!! WHO MADE THE COVENANT!!!???

Posted by edpobre: "Did you read Acts 2:36? Doesn't it say that God MADE Jesus both "LORD and Christ?"

Ed... you are not grasping what took place. Do you think that God... once He took the nature of man... made Himself nothing... now being the Christ... could He do anything on His own??? No... The Father... (remember...from whom He came)... did indeed make Him Lord. The Christ... was nothing, remember? (Made HIMSELF nothing phil 2) And furhermore... this again contrasts Isaiah 42:8...

Posted by edpobre: "How can God and Jesus be the SAME"

Simple... they must be according to God's word: (Hebrews 9:14,16-17) How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God! In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while THE ONE WHO MADE IT is living. Did God not Make the covenant ed?

Posted by ed: "John 14:5-10 does NOT tell us that Jesus is God the Father"

According to you ed... but lets see what others see if they read it huh?
The Bible says: (John 14:5-10) Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?" Jesus answered, "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us." Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work."


Posted by ed: "The "HE" refers to the MAN that the WORD of God turned into. The WORD has NO gender fow, just to let you know.
Rev. 19:13 refers to Jesus. Jesus is the MAN that the WORD turned into (the WORD became Jesus, remember?). Thus, Jesus BECAME the WORD of God AFTER he was born. This is NOT what I am asking for."

Really... well this 'man' was with God in the beginning... through this 'man' all things were made... and without Him NOTHING was made that has been made. This 'man' was given the title KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. Would this not be an example of God giving His glory to 'another'. Do you not claim that Christ is 'another' If He is not God (as you claim), then He would be 'another'... and this would not be 'glory'... KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS??? HE IS GOD who became like a man... took our nature.

This 'man' is described here ed... lets let others see what it says... they should be able to tell since God is not the author of confusion: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it... The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth."

Posted by ed: "But anyone can see that everything you have posted so far are TWISTED interpretation of Isaiah 48:2."

Really ed??? Well lets get a post of that verse on down here... here we go: “I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not give my glory to another”

now you state they are two different things... yet... God makes Christ... the KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS... the Alpha and the Omega... the Beginning and the End... the First and the Last... the Lord of Glory... Thomas cries out to Him 'my Lord and my God'... the Prince of Peace... the Redeemer... the Holy One of Israel... In Hebrews the Father says about the Son... "Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever."

If they are two different beings as YOU state... then God is indeed giving His glory to another... those titles are diety are they not? But this would contradict God's own words.

The fact is that Christ is indeed God who became like man... making Himself nothing... God is the Beginning and the End... He alone is God... Yet Christ is also called God by God.
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[fieldsofwind]

ed... I do care for you, but you have to believe if you want to see. God became like man... became subservient even to death... to become our sacrifice. In doing so, He gave up the ability to do things from His own power, but instead became like a man... and had to place His trust in the Father. God, (who became like a man in Christ), also retained being God. This also must be true, because God will not stop being God either. Therefore, because of His love (through which all of us were created) He became our sacrifice. This means that He had to do what is described above. The Son of God is God who became like man. Simple, and yet so complex! All of the verses in the Bible that you have given and the have been given by the field guy are in line with this. However, it is the Spirit that testifies to the truth, and He is whom I have been listening. God is love, and Christ is God who through His love became like man to die for us. Believe it. If Christ were just a man... none of the verses posted here below would be able to be true. They would all be examples of God giving His glory to another. You claim that by God giving His glory to 'a man' (another) He was in fact glorifying Himself. But, that is not what God said... He did not say He would give it to another because it was going to come back and glorify Him. He DID say that He would not give it away... period! Here are some facts for you. And your claims about John 1 are completely self-fabricated. God was not trying to trick people when He breathed those words into existence. The words clearly indicate that the Word is this "He" who is being spoken of, who was God and became flesh. Take care:


1) 1 Corinthians 2:8-- None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

2) (John 14:5-10) Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?" Jesus answered, "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us." Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work."

3) (John 1:1-5, 14) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it... The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

4) (Revelation 19:13) He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.

5) (Phil 2:5-10) Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in APPEARANCE as a man, he HUMBLED HIMSELF and BECAME obedient to death--even death on a cross! Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, (Reminder: God will not give His glory to another... He is the LORD and Him alone), that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

6) (Rev 19:16) On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. (Isaiah 42:8--I am the LORD: that is my name! I will not give my glory to another or my praise to idols.)

7) (Hebrews 9:14) How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God! (Hebrews 9:16-17) In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while THE ONE WHO MADE IT is living. (Did God not make the covenant? These verses are very clear as to who had to die)

8) Hebrews 1:5 For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son: today I have become your Father.” Hebrews 1:8 But about the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.” Hebrews 1:10 He also says, “In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands.” (Notice at the beginning of this God says “TODAY… I have become your Father… indicating that He wasn’t always… while Christ says many times that He is the Beginning and the End… indicating the claim I AM)

9) Revelation 22:13—(Jesus speaking) “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.”

10) Colossians 2:9—For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form

11) Titus 2:13—While we wait for the blessed hope—the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ

12) John 20:28—Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

13) John 18:3-6—So Judas came to the grove, guiding a detachment of soldiers and some officials from the chief priests and Pharisees. They were carrying torches, lanterns and weapons. Jesus, knowing all that was going to happen to him, went out and asked them, “Who is it you want?” “Jesus of Nazareth,” they replied. “I am he,” Jesus said. (And Judas the traitor was standing there with them.) When Jesus said, “I am he,” they drew back and fell to the ground.

14) Revelation 5:11-14--Then I looked and heard the voice of many angels, numbering thousands upon thousands, and ten thousand times ten thousand. They encircled the throne and the living creatures and the elders. In a loud voice they sang: "Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and praise!" THen I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing: "To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever! The four living creatures said, "Amen," and the elders fell down and worshiped. ------- Matthew 4:10--Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only."

15) Acts 3:15--You killed the author of life, but God raised him from the dead. We are witnesses of this. (Who is the author of life?)

16) We recieved the Spirit of God correct? (Joel 2:28) (2 Cor 1:21-22--Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a desposit, guaranteeing what is to come.) Then how is it that God's word also says that God sent the Spirit of Christ into us... unless Christ's Spirit is the Spirit of God? There are not two different Spirits within me, but one! Galatians 4:6--Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, "Abba, Father."
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About the Spirit:

1) John 4:24--"God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."

2) 2 Cor 3:17-18--"Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit."

3) Galatians 4:6--Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, "Abba, Father."------- Same as Spirit of God------Acts 2:4--All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit...------ Joel 2:28--"And afterward, I will pour out my Spirit on all people...

4) John 14:15-17--"If you love me, you will obey what I command. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever--the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. (notice Christ says that the Spirit lives with them already... yet has not been given to them yet... hmm... who does this indicate the Spirit is as well) Matthew 28:20--"and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age." The Spirit is within us... and Christ says... "I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

5) 1 Cor 2:10- --but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

 

[fieldsofwind]

and once again.. ed... I ask you who the AUTHOR of life is???

you know the answer... and yet you seem somewhat hesitant to say so. It is just like a book ed... the creator of the book ... the one who wrote it is the author of it. Therefore the one who created life... is the author of life... now who is this?

take care

FOW

 

[Anthony]

W-O-W Come don't hog the screen

Is this a dialog or Book of the Month

What happen to dialog, are we now having a discussion by proxy, and battle of cut-n-paste?

 

[Gunny]

Originally posted by Anthony
W-O-W Come don't hog the screen

Is this a dialog or Book of the Month

What happen to dialog, are we now having a discussion by proxy, and battle of cut-n-paste?

Anthony, I don't believe it is anyone's intention to be overly long in addressing these different doctrinal issues. When researching these different issues of a doctrinal nature it is difficult at times to wrap it up in a nice and neat little package.

Personally, I find articles written by Orthodox Christian Apologetic authors to be quite informative.

 

[fieldsofwind]

and furthermore... nothing you see came from anything but the bible, and myself listening to the Spirit.

the posts are answers to edpobre's questions. 1-7

take care...

FOW

 

[Anthony]

Originally posted by gunnysgt
Anthony, I don't believe it is anyone's intention to be overly long in addressing these different doctrinal issues. When researching these different issues of a doctrinal nature it is difficult at times to wrap it up in a nice and neat little package.

Personally, I find articles written by Orthodox Christian Apologetic authors to be quite informative.

Gunnysgt

When someone takes the time to Un Load 8 screens worth of text, to me that is intentional.

Also you are right you can't wrap up a dialog in one neat package, but these forums are for dialog not speeches. Do you honestly think anyone is going to really take the time to read 8 screens worth of text? The purpose of dialog is to have a two-way exchange. We don't talk in this fashion with people face to face, so why should it be any different here.

You catch more with an ounce of honey&nbsp;than a truckload of vinegar


FOW-

then answer them one&nbsp;question at&nbsp;time.&nbsp;whats the rush. Do you really think Ed is going to read everything word for word? Do you really think anyone else did?&nbsp;&nbsp;

&nbsp;

 

[Gunny]

Originally posted by fieldsofwind
and furthermore... nothing you see came from anything but the bible, and myself listening to the Spirit.
the posts are answers to edpobre's questions. 1-7
take care...
FOW

Originally posted by Anthony
Gunnysgt

When someone takes the time to Un Load 8 screens worth of text, to me that is intentional. Also you are right you can't wrap up a dialog in one neat package, but these forums are for dialog not speeches. Do you honestly think anyone is going to really take the time to read 8 screens worth of text? The purpose of dialog is to have a two-way exchange. We don't talk in this fashion with people face to face, so why should it be any different here.

FOW-
then answer them one&nbsp;question at&nbsp;time.&nbsp;whats the rush. Do you really think Ed is going to read everything word for word? Do you really think anyone else did?&nbsp;&nbsp;
&nbsp;

Anthony, I read through all FOW's posts because they are biblically based and are interesting and edifying.

Do I think Ed is going to read much of anything that a Christian posts that believes in the Deity of Christ, the Trinity and Salvation by Grace not works?

No, I believe that even if Ed does read what an Orthodox Christian Believer posts he has been so greatly decieved and blinded by his religion and it's founder that the truth has very little chance of penetrating his mind, heart and spirit.