Falling Away Contradiction?

GenemZ

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If a Hebrew Christian under Peter the apostle, tried sacrificing a lamb, despite receiving Jesus' sacred blood, but did not agree with the killing of Jesus, and did not reject the blood of Jesus or the Holy Spirit, that would not be the unpardonable sin of Hebrews 6:6.
Nothing about the unpardonable sin is found in Hebrews 6:6. For the unpardonable sin is to reject the saving power of the Holy Spirit to bring one to Christ.

Jesus told the Pharisees that they were blaspheming the Holy Spirit. How was that?

They were claiming Jesus was of the devil in his power to heal and cast out demons. Yet? They did not have such power.

Now, here's their dilemma. They claimed to be the one of God. They claimed Jesus was of the Devil. What they were saying? Satan has greater power than God. That Satan in this case was superior to God! That is blasphemy. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit!

The unbeliever Pharisees were following the power of Satan which pumped up their egos to the point they saw themselves as spiritually superior to everyone else. They saw themselves worthy to earn their salvation by the works they did. Blasphemy.

It can't be forgiven because they resisted and refused to be humbled... and to believe in Christ!

No excuses will be accepted at the evaluation of the unbeliever. Its unpardonable. Into the Lake of Fire!
 
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GenemZ

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Paul would go through the motions of being a Jew right up to sacrificing a lamb. In such a way that he could later explain the sacrificing is not really needed. He was self described as crafty..

Paul ... any Jew for that matter... did not perform the sacrifices.

Sinners were to approach a priest in the Temple who would sacrifice the lamb as the sins where transferred to the lamb by the priest by placing one hand on the sinner and the other upon the head of the lamb.

It could not be faked unless Paul was to perform his own sacrifice. That was impossible to do. Paul was not a Levitical priest. He was a Benjamite. He was not qualified to make the actual sacrifice.

And, the sacrifice Paul got snagged into was a long drawn out affair of appearing many days in the Temple (days of purification), which was to end the ritual with a very expensive large animal like a calf/oxen.. etc.
 
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GoldenKingGaze

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Paul ... any Jew for that matter... did not perform the sacrifices.

Sinners were to approach a priest in the Temple who would sacrifice the lamb as the sins where transferred to the lamb by the priest by placing one hand on the sinner and the other upon the head of the lamb.

It could not be faked unless Paul was to perform his own sacrifice. That was impossible to do. Paul was not a Levitical priest. He was a Benjamite. He was not qualified to make the actual sacrifice.

And, the sacrifice Paul got snagged into was a long drawn out affair of appearing many days in the Temple (days of purification), which was to end the ritual with a very expensive large animal like a calf/oxen.. etc.
Yes, Paul himself would not kill the lamb but may have brought one in and sacrificed it. Paul knew all this would happen, as in Agabus prophecy, but went ahead. It was a mission, not a sin.
 
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GenemZ

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Yes, Paul himself would not kill the lamb but may have brought one in and sacrificed it. Paul knew all this would happen, as in Agabus prophecy, but went ahead. It was a mission, not a sin.

He was warned by the Holy Spirit not to go by many. Paul had become nostalgic for the glory days of his Judaism. He wrote that he was supposed to have gone to Rome, but took the detour. He went in spite of God more than adequately warning him.

It proved that even the greatest amongst us will fail at times along the way. That's the message.


And when we had parted from them and set sail, we came by a straight
course to Cos, and the next day to Rhodes, and from there to Patara.
And having found a ship crossing to Phoenicia, we went aboard, and set sail.
When we had come in sight of Cyprus, leaving it on the left we sailed to Syria,
and landed at Tyre; for there the ship was to unload its cargo. And having
sought out the disciples, we stayed there for seven days.
Through the Spirit they told Paul not to go on to Jerusalem. And when
our days there were ended, we departed and went on our journey; and they
all, with wives and children, brought us on our way till we were outside the
city; and kneeling down on the beach we prayed and bade one another
farewell. Then we went on board the ship, and they returned home. (Acts 21:1-6 RSV)

Moses, as great as he was. Failed to enter the Promised Land because he refused to do God's will at the last moment. God told him to speak to the rock to get water for the people. Instead, Moses who was fed up with the rebellious Jews slammed the rock hard with his staff. Water came out just the same.

But, because he was disobedient in what he did, Moses died before he could enter the Promised Land. The water still came out of the rock. Just like Paul got out his letters in spite of being held prisoner.
 
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GoldenKingGaze

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He was warned by the Holy Spirit not to go by many. Paul had become nostalgic for the glory days of his Judaism. He wrote that he was supposed to have gone to Rome, but took the detour. He went in spite of God more than adequately warning him.

It proved that even the greatest amongst us will fail at times along the way. That's the message.


And when we had parted from them and set sail, we came by a straight
course to Cos, and the next day to Rhodes, and from there to Patara.
And having found a ship crossing to Phoenicia, we went aboard, and set sail.
When we had come in sight of Cyprus, leaving it on the left we sailed to Syria,
and landed at Tyre; for there the ship was to unload its cargo. And having
sought out the disciples, we stayed there for seven days.
Through the Spirit they told Paul not to go on to Jerusalem. And when
our days there were ended, we departed and went on our journey; and they
all, with wives and children, brought us on our way till we were outside the
city; and kneeling down on the beach we prayed and bade one another
farewell. Then we went on board the ship, and they returned home. (Acts 21:1-6 RSV)

Moses, as great as he was. Failed to enter the Promised Land because he refused to do God's will at the last moment. God told him to speak to the rock to get water for the people. Instead, Moses who was fed up with the rebellious Jews slammed the rock hard with his staff. Water came out just the same.

But, because he was disobedient in what he did, Moses died before he could enter the Promised Land. The water still came out of the rock. Just like Paul got out his letters in spite of being held prisoner.
There in mention of nostalgia, and Judaism as Paul had known it had only just erred at the end to think Jesus was a false prophet. The Judaism of 60 AD was more hardened against Jesus than at first and was not the same Judaism Paul knew. It had thoroughly thought through and rejected Christ in the midst of Paul's conversion and Peter's ministry with strong young men like Stephen speaking boldly with wisdom.

This quote is about the justice of Paul in going to Jerusalem and that he knew he was going to Rome. Also he knew from young that he would suffer much such as in prison.
Act 21:10 While we were staying for many days, a prophet named Agabus came down from Judea.
Act 21:11 And coming to us, he took Paul's belt and bound his own feet and hands and said, “Thus says the Holy Spirit, ‘This is how the Jews at Jerusalem will bind the man who owns this belt and deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.’”
Act 21:12 When we heard this, we and the people there urged him not to go up to Jerusalem.
Act 21:13 Then Paul answered, “What are you doing, weeping and breaking my heart? For I am ready not only to be imprisoned but even to die in Jerusalem for the name of the Lord Jesus.”
Act 21:14 And since he would not be persuaded, we ceased and said, “Let the will of the Lord be done.”
Act 21:15 After these days we got ready and went up to Jerusalem.
 
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lismore

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How does one reconcile Hebrews 6 (If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame) with 2 Timothy 13 (If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.)

Hebrews is written to persons of a Jewish background, some of whom had made a profession for Christ but many of whom were slipping back into the old covenant works and animal sacrifices.

The author shows that the Son is superior to prophets, the Son is superior to angels, he is our Eternal High priest, his blood shed for the forgiveness of our sins rather than animal sacrifices, the New Covenant Superior to the Old.

If you are relying on animal blood to save you then indeed you're in danger.

God Bless :)
 
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GenemZ

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There in mention of nostalgia, and Judaism as Paul had known it had only just erred at the end to think Jesus was a false prophet. The Judaism of 60 AD was more hardened against Jesus than at first and was not the same Judaism Paul knew. It had thoroughly thought through and rejected Christ in the midst of Paul's conversion and Peter's ministry with strong young men like Stephen speaking boldly with wisdom.

This quote is about the justice of Paul in going to Jerusalem and that he knew he was going to Rome. Also he knew from young that he would suffer much such as in prison.
Act 21:10 While we were staying for many days, a prophet named Agabus came down from Judea.
Act 21:11 And coming to us, he took Paul's belt and bound his own feet and hands and said, “Thus says the Holy Spirit, ‘This is how the Jews at Jerusalem will bind the man who owns this belt and deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.’”
Act 21:12 When we heard this, we and the people there urged him not to go up to Jerusalem.
Act 21:13 Then Paul answered, “What are you doing, weeping and breaking my heart? For I am ready not only to be imprisoned but even to die in Jerusalem for the name of the Lord Jesus.”
Act 21:14 And since he would not be persuaded, we ceased and said, “Let the will of the Lord be done.”
Act 21:15 After these days we got ready and went up to Jerusalem.
Sure! Deep sentimentality overruled his objectivity.

Its a warning to all believers who are maturing in Christ.



Its not that difficult to understand. Only obstinate people make it seem that way.
 
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GoldenKingGaze

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Sure! Deep sentimentality overruled his objectivity.

Its a warning to all believers who are maturing in Christ.



Its not that difficult to understand. Only obstinate people make it seem that way.
Are you saying the scripture is in error and Paul and company were not really right in God's will?
 
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GenemZ

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Hebrews is written to persons of a Jewish background, some of whom had made a profession for Christ but many of whom were slipping back into the old covenant works and animal sacrifices.

The author shows that the Son is superior to prophets, the Son is superior to angels, he is our Eternal High priest, his blood shed for the forgiveness of our sins rather than animal sacrifices, the New Covenant Superior to the Old.

If you are relying on animal blood to save you then indeed you're in danger.

God Bless :)


Reminds me of a sweet lady I knew in Bible college.

We were being taught daily the Word of God on a very good level. She lost interest in the Bible and returned to the Catholic church's spiritual death trap. She longed for the garlic and leeks.

The Jews in Hebrews 6 were like fanatical sports fans who would go without food and sleep to make sure they got a ticket to a big game. Religion back then also had its fanatical sports fans of sorts. Those Jews refused knowledge. Their emotions were their god.
 
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GenemZ

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Are you saying the scripture is in error and Paul and company were not really right in God's will?
I wonder what skill it is that has the ability to keep missing the point, as to divert away from the point. So, others watching, can not see that a point has been made.

Do you believe we wrestle not against flesh and blood?

The people in the congregation would be moaning by now,.... telling me to move on and leave you be. They too have the Spirit.
 
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GoldenKingGaze

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I wonder what skill it is that has the ability to keep missing the point, as to divert away from the point. So, others watching, can not see that a point has been made.

Do you believe we wrestle not against flesh and blood?

The people in the congregation would be moaning by now,.... telling me to move on and leave you be. They too have the Spirit.
Yes but Paul even in Jerusalem was the excellent role model, "I die daily."
The Hebrews of ch 6:6, were said to be in order, and that is was expected they would do better than fall away.
 
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GenemZ

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Yes but Paul even in Jerusalem was the excellent role model, "I die daily."
The Hebrews of ch 6:6, were said to be in order, and that is was expected they would do better than fall away.
Please..... you're never ending. because you do not know where to begin. You can make anything up as long as you refuse to acknowledge what the Word declares. And, as long as one fails to learn sound doctrine on a steady basis to know how to put the picture pieces together. It all becomes ... "your opinion is as good as mine."
In a nut shell. You'll never be satisfied if you continue as you have been. And it appears you aim to keep it that way for others.
 
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GoldenKingGaze

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Please..... you're never ending. because you do not know where to begin. You can make anything up as long as you refuse to acknowledge what the Word declares. And, as long as one fails to learn sound doctrine on a steady basis to know how to put the picture pieces together. It all becomes ... "your opinion is as good as mine."
In a nut shell. You'll never be satisfied if you continue as you have been. And it appears you aim to keep it that way for others.
I use scriptures in context and aim to keep in right understanding, not adding to scriptures, ideas about Paul the apostle... The addition of the idea that Paul fell into sin and was judged, or even that the destruction of the temple was judgment for the sin of people returning to animal sacrifices, for such are fiction, adding to God's words, things that are erring notions.
 
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GoldenKingGaze

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Here we see that the bulk of Hebrews in Jerusalem did not consider returning to the new anti-Jesus, Judaism.

ESV
Heb 6:6 and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.
Heb 6:7 For land that has drunk the rain that often falls on it, and produces a crop useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God.
Heb 6:8 But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed, and its end is to be burned.
Heb 6:9 Though we speak in this way, yet in your case, beloved, we feel sure of better things—things that belong to salvation.
Heb 6:10 For God is not unjust so as to overlook your work and the love that you have shown for his name in serving the saints, as you still do.
Heb 6:11 And we desire each one of you to show the same earnestness to have the full assurance of hope until the end,
Heb 6:12 so that you may not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
 
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GenemZ

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I use scriptures in context and aim to keep in right understanding, not adding to scriptures, ideas about Paul the apostle... The addition of the idea that Paul fell into sin and was judged, or even that the destruction of the temple was judgment for the sin of people returning to animal sacrifices, for such are fiction, adding to God's words, things that are erring notions.

You are wrong as can be.

And, I am going to leave you there. Because you enjoy being there.

:wave:
 
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