Faith plus works

GodsGrace101

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You should mention your theological teacher Pelagius. This man centered theology of cooperative salvation is nothing more than pelagianism
I don't know who Pelagius is.

I read the bible and quote the bible.
Calvinists love men and read their men.

I said prior to this that this is something I don't care for in calvinism.

Who cares who thought what?
Read the bible and get your ideas from there, without prejudice, of course...
Oh sure you don’t. It’s easy for you to trash Augustine and what he defended according to scripture but yet be naive about the man who brought great division during his time. Pelagius said he got what he got from scripture too! So what. As far as I can see the same battle Augustine was in with Pelagius is the same battle that still plagues us today. You are a pelagian and the mouthpiece for it whether you know it or not
P.S. Scripture can be exegeted wrongly. I'd say this is the problem.

And what battle still plagues us today?
 
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MDC

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The way you use the quotes feature makes for some confusion...

I know this about Pelagius...he believed that man could save himself with no help from the Holy Spirit.

The reason I know about Augustine is because I studied church history...from The Way onward.

Pelagius must certainly be a heretic because I haven't studied that much.

If I don't like Augustine, I don't like him.
Has nothing to do with the bible.

I LOVE the Early Chruch Fathers.

What's funny about calvinists is that they always quote Augustine but hate catholics...

Don't be assuming what I know and what I don't know. All you know that I know is what I post...you know nothing else about what I know or do not know.
Well if you studied church history and Augustine you should’ve came across Pelagius. If you notice you all who oppose the biblical doctrines of sinful man, election, predestination, perseverance of the saints or security of the believer, basically make the same arguments Pelagius made. Catholicism is no different from your Pelagius views regarding salvation. It is why it’s rejected. The basic foundation is still the same, man working for his salvation and trying to earn Gods favor
 
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MDC

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P.S. Scripture can be exegeted wrongly. I'd say this is the problem.

And what battle still plagues us today?
Same battle Augustine had with Pelagius. Same battle the reformers had with Rome and the Arminians. The gospel of grace vs the humanistic man centered theology of works salvation
 
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GodsGrace101

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Well if you studied church history and Augustine you should’ve came across Pelagius. If you notice you all who oppose the biblical doctrines of sinful man, election, predestination, perseverance of the saints or security of the believer, basically make the same arguments Pelagius made. Catholicism is no different from your Pelagius views regarding salvation. It is why it’s rejected. The basic foundation is still the same, man working for his salvation and trying to earn Gods favor
I told you what I know...I can't make believe to know what I don't know. Pelagius believed man could be saved by himself...without the Holy Spirit. The, at the time only church around, Catholic Church rejected this. This is one of the reasons they liked Augustine..there was pretty much no other reason other than he had a good brain on his shoulders (my opinion. not the CC's).

You say "all you"...do you realize that you go against the rest of Christianity? Calvinism is the only denomination that believes as you do..it's the only denomination that has its own commentators and teachers...You can learn from no one else because you don't believe as any other Christian does. Do you ever wonder why??

As to catholicism,,,I did say that it's strange that you love Augustine but hate catholicism -- it's the same thing! Augustine practically made up the current Catholic doctrine regarding Original Sin and predestination. (I'm not catholic).

You have a misconception about biblical teaching.
Man cannot work for his salvation or try to earn God's favor. If you need me to, I can post ECFs who plainly said that we are saved by faith alone -- which is what the CC believes today. They recanted on Trent, which was only declared for the reason of countering the reformation and so they added works to the mix for Justification. I can post Vatican docs that clearly state that we are saved by faith alone.

Where we part is after salvation...
Then comes sanctification.
This is a cooperative effort between God and man.
God requires us to obey Him....
and Man obeys Him.

The reason you have a problem with this is due to free will. Believing free will does not exist messes up the entire N.T.

I keep asking every calvinist I speak to to show me where free will is taken away from man's nature, but so far, no answer.

God gave man free will in the Garden.
God said everything He made was good.

Adam and Eve lost the PRETERNATURAL gifts when they fell -- not the nature God had given them.
They retained free will.

Satan certainly doesn't take it away because he's not the one that creates.

Man does not have the ability to remove something from his nature --- this is proven by the fact that we still have the same nature we had 5,000 years ago..and will continue to have.

So where did our free will go?

And as to earning God's favor...
Yes..we earn God's favor by obeying Him...
(after salvation).
You deny this? Do you think God does NOT want us to obey Him? Need scripture?
 
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GodsGrace101

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Same battle Augustine had with Pelagius. Same battle the reformers had with Rome and the Arminians. The gospel of grace vs the humanistic man centered theology of works salvation
I do think that Calvin believed in works. For Preservation of the Saints one is expected to persevere (I mean persevere) till the end..and till the end nothing is expected of him?

That's another problem...since GOD chooses YOU, how can you be sure you're one of the saved? You have to wait till the end to see if you're one that God really picked...
 
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Just_a_Christian

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But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
Hebrews 11:6

I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.
Luke 13:3

For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Romans 10:10

Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. - Acts 2:38

Our Lord Jesus left His honored place in Heaven, not considering it robbery or something to covet being equal with God, taking on humanity. Then suffered the cruel cross at Galgotha and raised again the third day, our Easter Sunday. What will you do with Jesus? Accept His word and obey God to have your name written in the Book of Life?

In Him
 
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