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Featured Faith plus works

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by mister rogers, Apr 13, 2019.

  1. mister rogers

    mister rogers New Member

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    Not sure this belongs in the controversial section, but we'll see how it goes anyway.

    Salvation by grace through faith in Christ alone is what excommunicated Luther from Rome and began the Reformation, correct? My question then is, if there are any since then who have adopted again a belief of some kind in salvation by faith plus works, should they still be considered more in line with the Reformation or the likes of Rome again?
     
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  2. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Have a blessed Lord's Day!

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    A works based salvation is one of the defining differences between Christianity and almost every other religion.
     
  3. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

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    Jas 2:24

    You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
     
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  4. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Have a blessed Lord's Day!

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    It has a context!
     
  5. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I know. And the context is that it was written in response to misconceptions of the teachings of Paul.

    Or perhaps you mean some other context where the plain language is entirely the opposite of its meaning.
     
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  6. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Have a blessed Lord's Day!

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    Luther said it best, "Faith alone saves, but faith is never alone." That's what James is talking about. Profession of faith must be accompanied by works in order for that faith to be one that justify us, he clearly makes that point in verse 22. Faith doesn't exist without evidence. Faith is "dead" without works.

    However, to fit your tradition you must have to do gymnastics to make this say something James did not intend.
     
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  7. Danthemailman

    Danthemailman Well-Known Member

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    In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).

    In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

    1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
    2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
    3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

    In Matthew 12:37, we read - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (and our works) reveal the condition of our hearts. Words/works will be evidences for, or against a man's being in a state of righteousness.

    God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the "sense" in which God was "justified." He was shown to be righteous.

    Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."

    It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony* :oldthumbsup:
     
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  8. Danthemailman

    Danthemailman Well-Known Member

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    Amen! In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple! :oldthumbsup:
     
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  9. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Have a blessed Lord's Day!

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    This was far better than what I said! Amen!
     
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  10. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

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    My tradition teaches me that the plain wording of it is sufficient. And I am certain that if James had meant something other than what he wrote he would have written something else altogether.
     
  11. Gracia Singh

    Gracia Singh Newbie Supporter

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    This is something that I went through, too. I often wonder this. Wherever one stands, one probably can not still call one's self a Protestant. But one can still call one's self a Christian! God be with you, friend.
     
  12. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

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    Okay, So James, like many of the other apostles, suffered from some mental impairment that caused him to write simple statements having a meaning entirely the opposite of what was written.
     
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  13. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Have a blessed Lord's Day!

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    James is addressing lincesiousness in the Church, and was not referring to Paul and his writings. Read the whole chapter, actually the whole book.
     
  14. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It is faith first and through works we show our faith, in other words, through faith our works are good in the eyes of God.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2019
  15. mister rogers

    mister rogers New Member

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    Looking at the rest of the passage and others, I take it to mean that works follow true saving faith; they are evidence of it.
     
  16. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Have a blessed Lord's Day!

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    .
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2019
  17. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

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    Thank you. I've read the chapter. especially the parts where James refutes, point by point, using the very same examples that Paul used, the misperception many people had of the teachings of Paul.
     
  18. Danthemailman

    Danthemailman Well-Known Member

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    You need to examine the context and properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching your conclusion on doctrine. Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-24).
     
  19. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Have a blessed Lord's Day!

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    Where is the reference to Paul?
     
  20. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

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    You're not familiar with the writings of Paul, are you?
     
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