Faith Plus Works

[BNR32FAN]

Sure, you can say that, but the proof in the pudding is actually showing the pattern in Scripture and how it makes sense as a whole in Scripture. I believe my Biblical case for repentance refutes the standard explanation given to us in a religious dictionary (that was created by men). Then again, God has hidden these things from the wise. If you were to look at the Scriptural references I made for "repentance = asking God forgiveness," you will see that is what it actually means.



And Jesus said beware of the scribes. It's what Jesus said. His words are for our learning today. To ignore them is dangerous.



The Jews kept the Hebrew Scriptures but they did not interpret God's Word correctly. Granted, I am not speaking against the Greek Orthodox church mind you, I am just saying that just because they may make such a claim does not mean anything unless one has the proof that what they say is true. For me, they would need a time machine to prove that their understanding on the Greek is EXACTLY like it was in Paul's day. Their claim that they have the right interpretation and or they passed down the original meaning does not mean anything to me. God is not the God the dead but of the living. God deals with us today. His Word exists in the world language for today and not in some distant past that is no longer. History and or some church is not my authority. The Bible is my authority. This would be a Bible that I can read and understand in my own language because God is not going to hold me accountable to some dead language I cannot possibly ever know because I did not grow up reading and speaking Biblical Greek as a part of that culture. Looking back hindsight and or looking to religious dictionaries is only going off what other religious men have said. I prefer to just read and believe God's Word by faith. For faith comes be hearing and hearing the Word of God and not religious dictionaries and or some church and it's dogma (or extra biblical traditions).



Was Paul a scribe? Did he tran-scribe the Torah? I am not so sure about that. He was a Pharisee to my knowledge. Did he later write Scripture inspired by the Holy Ghost? Yes. But that is not the same thing as a scribe.

As for William Tyndale: Obviously not ALL scribes are going to be bad. God had to preserve His Word in some way through out time. So when Jesus says beware of the scribes, he is saying beware of the majority of them (and not the select few God had chosen to preserve His Word). Note: Please keep in mind that I believe the Bible perfectly existed in the Latin (Not the corrupt Latin Vulgate) before it perfectly existed in the English with the 1769 KJV. Also please take note that 7 other languages (to my knowledge) have made a translation of the KJV, as well. So the KJV does not just exist in the English. God's perfect Word has spread to other countries.

Anyways, seeing I believe the KJV (1769) is the divine and perfect Word of God for our day, of course I am aware of William Tyndale. But I strive not to make my focus of my studies about man made history because men can be flawed and can make mistakes. The Word of God is different. God preserved His Word through men through out history in various different languages.... perfectly. If God's Word is not divine and not perfect.... then it is not God's Word. His Word is a reflection of the character of God.



I can say the same thing for you. If you do not accept what your English Bible says, then from my point of view, it seems like you are trying to change God's Word. But I believe God's Word has been preserved for our day. God does not make mistakes. God's Word claims that it is perfect (Psalms 12:6) (Psalms 119:140) (Proverbs 30:5) and that it will be preserved for all generations (Psalms 12:7) and it will stand forever (Isaiah 40:8) (1 Peter 1:25).

Please keep in mind that I am not new to debating the KJV-Only position. I have heard all the arguments before and have debated it ad nauseam for many years. I heard the many supposed contradictions and have refuted them. So I would prefer not to get into that kind of debate here. In fact, I use Modern Translations to sometimes help me to see what is said in the KJV, but the KJV is still my final word of authority. God's Word should change us, and we should not change God's Word by every wind of doctrine. There are clear warnings not to tamper with God's Word. I really wouldn't want to have to face God one day for having messed with His Word in any way. For me, I am not going to change what God's Word says for our day. If it says.... "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:" (Exodus 20:4).... I believe that by faith. For faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God. Faith does not come by doubting God's Word or by changing it because we do not like what it says.

Are you aware that William Tyndale’s translation had almost 1000 inaccurate translations of which he took it upon himself to edit the translations to better suit his interpretation of the scriptures? When he was accused of this this was his response.

In response to allegations of inaccuracies in his translation in the New Testament, Tyndale in the Prologue to his 1525 translation wrote that he never intentionally altered or misrepresented any of the Bible, but that he had sought to "interpret the sense of the scripture and the meaning of the spirit."

So basically your trusting one man over another having not known either of them. Even more so your trusting one man over an apostolic church. One man over many men who have devoted their life to serving God and preserving His Word. It is much harder to corrupt God’s word when it takes so many to collaborate together amongst men who are devoted to serving God. Another thing to consider is Tyndale was translating from Greek text which were in fact Orthodox manuscripts. So either way if there was any corruption of the scriptures by the OC then Tyndale was already translating from corrupted material. So if you can’t trust the OC then you can’t trust Tyndale’s translation.

 

[.Iona.]

I used to attend a church that would judge our faith/ worthiness on our works. If we came against a problem, it was said that we were not doing enough.

It always confused me. Believing in the Gospel and being Baptised wasnt enough for them.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Are you aware that William Tyndale’s translation had almost 1000 inaccurate translations of which he took it upon himself to edit the translations to better suit his interpretation of the scriptures? When he was accused of this this was his response. In response to allegations of inaccuracies in his translation in the New Testament, Tyndale in the Prologue to his 1525 translation wrote that he never intentionally altered or misrepresented any of the Bible, but that he had sought to "interpret the sense of the scripture and the meaning of the spirit."

Was Tyndale directly involved in the making of the KJV? No.

So basically your trusting one man over another having not known either of them. Even more so your trusting one man over an apostolic church. One man over many men who have devoted their life to serving God and preserving His Word. It is much harder to corrupt God’s word when it takes so many to collaborate together amongst men who are devoted to serving God. Another thing to consider is Tyndale was translating from Greek text which were in fact Orthodox manuscripts. So either way if there was any corruption of the scriptures by the OC then Tyndale was already translating from corrupted material. So if you can’t trust the OC then you can’t trust Tyndale’s translation.

I never said I trusted Tyndale's translation as God's divinely inspired Word. I said the Bible perfectly existed in the Latin (Not the corrupt Latin Vulgate) until the 1769 version of the KJV came into existence. The MANY people who worked on the KJV used some of his work, that does not mean that God could not have preserved His Word perfectly in this case because Tyndale's work was not perfect. The translators on the KJV used different works to compile their translation and Tyndale's Translation was not the sole means by which they translated the KJV, either.

Anyways, while I was not really intending to get into a KJV debate, there are actual several witnesses that show the KJV (1769) is divinely inspired.

#1. No other Bible is more attacked than the KJV.
I have been called a Bible worshiper (or Bible idolater) all because I believe the KJV is the divinely inspired Word of God and it is perfect. Yet, I do not bow down to the KJV and nor do I treat it as if it was some kind of magical object that has power apart from God. The Bible is like a love letter and it conveys the mind, and thoughts of God. Anyways, I have seen the bashing by Anti-KJV proponents, and it is not nice. Granted, I am sure there are KJV proponents who are not nice, too; But in my experience, it seems like the KJV Only folk are the ones who are being heavily attacked the most in an improper way. In fact, no other Bible comes under more fire than the KJV. People seek to attack it. Why? Well, for the same reason robbers break into banks. It's because these things have value.

#2. God's Word claims that it is perfect.
God's Word claims that it is perfect (Psalms 12:6) (Psalms 119:140) (Proverbs 30:5) and that it will be preserved for all generations (Psalms 12:7) and it will stand forever (Isaiah 40:8) (1 Peter 1:25). Therefore, seeing Scripture plainly states these facts, it then becomes an issue of a test of your faith in God's Word (See the test the devil gave to Eve in Genesis 3:1); For the Bereans were more noble because they compared the spoken Word of God with the written Word of God (Acts of the Apostles 17:11). In other words, if the Bereans thought the written Word was corrupt in some way they would have no way of really knowing if the spoken Word of God was true or not.

#3. KJV vs. Modern Translations.
A simple side by side comparison of the KJV vs Modern Translations shows us that the devil tries to place his name in the Modern Versions. Have no idea what I am talking about?

Well, many Bible versions say that it is the dragon who is standing on the sea shore in Revelation. This is just evil and wrong.

See Parallel Version for Revelation 13:1 here...

Revelation 13:1 The dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name.

See, if you know anything about Bible language, standing on something means that you "own it"; And the devil wants to own you. In the King James, John is standing on the seashore. Yet in many Bible versions the dragon (i.e. the devil) is standing on the seashore.

Why is this a problem?

Let's look at...

Genesis 22:17

"That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the seashore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;"

Did you catch that? God says to Abraham that He will multiply his seed as the stars of the heaven and as the sand which is upon the seashore where he will then possess the gate of his enemies (i.e. the devil and his kingdom). The apostle John who wrote Revelation was Jewish and he was the promised seed of Genesis 22 standing on the seashore in Revelation 13. It was not the dragon or the devil standing on the seashore.

For certain Modern Versions eliminate the part of the passage in Revelation 13:1 that says that John is standing on the seashore (When he refers to himself as "I").

Also, the devil tries to take out key points in important discussions within the Bible (Which can affect doctrine). For example: In Romans 7 Paul talks from the Jew's perspective in keeping the Old Testament Law (Which leads to problems), and he gives us the climax or heart of his message as a solution in Romans 8:1. Now, certain modern translations have eliminated "who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Eliminating this passage destroys the whole thrust of Paul's argument. Walking in the Spirit is the key to being in Christ Jesus. You eliminate that and you destroy Paul's argument. Also, 1 John 5:7 is the only verse in the Bible that is the clearest and most concise teaching on the Godhead (i.e. the Trinity). For imagine if a man was marooned on an island, and he came to faith in Jesus by a Bible he found from somebody's luggage that swept up to shore. Would he not have a better chance at understanding the Trinity with a KJV Bible because 1 John 5:7 is in his Bible? Sure he would.

#4. Biblical Numerics.
Bible Numbers that glorify God and His Word. (Note: These are not equidistant letter sequences or numbers that attempt to get one to have a special dream, or to divine the future in some way - Striving to foretell the future is forbidden in the Bible). Numbers are something that we deal with in our everyday life and all things glorify God. So obviously the numbers in God's Word would naturally glorify Him in some way. What am I talking about? Check out this video on Numbers & the Greek New Testament.

Sevens in the Bible - Chuck Missler:

Also, here is a video series by Mike Hoggard that talks about the number 7 in the King James.

King James Code - Number 7 - Mike Hoggard (Part 1):

King James Code - Number 7 - Mike Hoggard (Part 2):

Now, while I may not agree with Mike and Chuck on everything they teach in the Bible nor on the way they teaches Bible numbers in every example, they do have some really great teachings on the subject. With Mike: I have found that he has made some startling discoveries. These discoveries do not appear in the modern translations but only in the King James.

Side Note:

Please keep in mind that I do use Modern Translations, too. I do so as to help update the 1600's Language sometimes in the KJV. But the KJV is still my final word of authority. I do not believe the KJV conflicts with the original Hebrew and Greek. I kind of look at Modern Translations like a man who pans through dirt to get to the gold (i.e. I use Modern Translation to get the heart of the meaning in the KJV). If something in a Modern Translation says something that is bad, I side with the KJV.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I used to attend a church that would judge our faith/ worthiness on our works. If we came against a problem, it was said that we were not doing enough.

It always confused me. Believing in the Gospel and being Baptised wasnt enough for them.

Not every holiness church may be correct in the way they do things, but holiness or obedience to God's commands is a requirement in being a follower of Jesus Christ. Jesus said, why do you call me Lord, Lord, and do not what I say? (See Luke 6:46).

If a servant of a king decided to not do what His King said, then they were defecting or being disloyal. People think they can just believe on Jesus and go back to their life as if nothing ever happened and they will be in Heaven one day. Sorry, it does not work like that. We actually have to be followers of Jesus and not followers of ourselves and or our own sin.

I mean, stop and think for a moment.

Jesus said narrow is the way that leads unto life and FEW be there that finds it (Matthew 7:14). Most teach "Belief Alone" or some form of "Easy Believism" or that you can sin and still be saved. But did Jesus criticize the Pharisees because of a lack of belief in God or because of their evil deeds? Did Jesus say, "Do not worry about how you live, just believe in me"? Did Jesus ever say that? No. He sure didn't.

Most today (like the rich young ruler) and not willing to follow Jesus.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Why do some people think an apple tree grows apples to become an apple tree, rather than because it already is one?

Nobody is suggesting that one can obey God without being born again and without seeking forgiveness with the Lord Jesus Christ by faith.

But you have to realize that the good tree is Jesus.

We have to allow His good fruit to be evident in our lives to show that He truly lives inside of us. If we bring forth only evil fruit, it is evidence that Jesus does not live in us. While we are given a new heart with new desires (in the regeneration) we are also not forced against our own will to obey God. We have to still endure unto the end to be saved. We have to KEEP ourselves in the love of God. God is not going to obey for us.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I just watched another video by David Servant during lunch, and he is saying close to what I have been just saying.

He talks about the Sermon on the Mount.
He also talks about grace and the narrow way, too.

 

[justbyfaith]

Nobody is suggesting that one can obey God without being born again and without seeking forgiveness with the Lord Jesus Christ by faith.

But you have to realize that the good tree is Jesus.

We have to allow His good fruit to be evident in our lives to show that He truly lives inside of us. If we bring forth only evil fruit, it is evidence that Jesus does not live in us. While we are given a new heart with new desires (in the regeneration) we are also not forced against our own will to obey God. We have to still endure unto the end to be saved. We have to KEEP ourselves in the love of God. God is not going to obey for us.

But you seem to be preaching that we have to work up this goodness in our own strength!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

A person is first saved by Jesus Christ by seeking forgiveness with Him and by believing in His death and resurrection by hearing God's Word (under the drawing of God). From there, they are born again spiritually by the Spirit. They will have a new heart with new desires. But this does not mean they do not have free will. They still have to choose to abide in the Lord as a daily thing. Salvation is not a one time prayer, but it is a walk with God. A continued walk. We are to choose this day in whom we will serve. No man can serve two masters. A person cannot serve God and also their sin. It doesn't work like that; And God is not going to force us to obey Him. We have to cooperate with God. The good works done in a believer's life is the working of God in them. They are the fruits of God. But again, we have to surrender to God. God is not going to override our free will.

But can a person work up their own strength to obey God without God?
Most certainly not.
They need to ask God to work in move in their life.
Why do you think Jesus told the disciples to Watch and pray so as not to enter into temptation? It's because that by praying, they could avoid temptations. God can protect them. But they have to make that effort to pray to God and talk with Him about it. So God can certainly help us to overcome sin and walk holy by His power, but we have to actually want that. God is not going to force us to do what is good.

 

[justbyfaith]

So God can certainly help us to overcome sin and walk holy by His power, but we have to actually want that. God is not going to force us to do what is good.

impaho, salvation is this attitude of wanting that. Regeneration does this work in us, that when we surrender to Christ and are thereby saved, from that point onward He gives us a new nature that continues in that state of surrender based on the initial decision of surrendering to Him.

So God does not override our free will; but He works within us based on our freewill decision to surrender to Him; and therefore when we ask Him to regenerate our hearts so that we may no longer have any desire to disobey the Lord, He is able to do that. Of course we must be on the lookout in our own lives of any instances wherein we might take back our surrender from Him and begin again to walk in disobedience or unbelief. As the Holy Spirit, by whom we have been sealed, points out those instances wherein we begin to live for ourselves instead of Him, He is able to bring us back to that place of sweet surrender. Once redeemed, we find that the state of surrender is a sweet position and that the state of disobedience is bitter. Because our nature has been transformed so that we love righteousness and hate iniquity. Therefore we will gravitate towards what is sweet, and when we find ourselves in that bitter state of disobedience, we will not be content to continue in such a state, and will begin to seek the Lord for deliverance. Every born again believer who finds himself in the state of what is described in Romans 7:14-25, will have as his heart's cry, Wretched man that I am! Who shall rescue me from this body of death? He will be rending his heart and not his garment until he finds the answer: until he finds himself once again in the sweet arms of Jesus as a Romans 8, 1 John 3:9, Hebrews 10:14, 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 believer.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Was Tyndale directly involved in the making of the KJV? No.



I never said I trusted Tyndale's translation as God's divinely inspired Word. I said the Bible perfectly existed in the Latin (Not the corrupt Latin Vulgate) until the 1769 version of the KJV came into existence. The MANY people who worked on the KJV used some of his work, that does not mean that God could not have preserved His Word perfectly in this case because Tyndale's work was not perfect. The translators on the KJV used different works to compile their translation and Tyndale's Translation was not the sole means by which they translated the KJV, either.

Anyways, while I was not really intending to get into a KJV debate, there are actual several witnesses that show the KJV (1769) is divinely inspired.

#1. No other Bible is more attacked than the KJV.
I have been called a Bible worshiper (or Bible idolater) all because I believe the KJV is the divinely inspired Word of God and it is perfect. Yet, I do not bow down to the KJV and nor do I treat it as if it was some kind of magical object that has power apart from God. The Bible is like a love letter and it conveys the mind, and thoughts of God. Anyways, I have seen the bashing by Anti-KJV proponents, and it is not nice. Granted, I am sure there are KJV proponents who are not nice, too; But in my experience, it seems like the KJV Only folk are the ones who are being heavily attacked the most in an improper way. In fact, no other Bible comes under more fire than the KJV. People seek to attack it. Why? Well, for the same reason robbers break into banks. It's because these things have value.

#2. God's Word claims that it is perfect.
God's Word claims that it is perfect (Psalms 12:6) (Psalms 119:140) (Proverbs 30:5) and that it will be preserved for all generations (Psalms 12:7) and it will stand forever (Isaiah 40:8) (1 Peter 1:25). Therefore, seeing Scripture plainly states these facts, it then becomes an issue of a test of your faith in God's Word (See the test the devil gave to Eve in Genesis 3:1); For the Bereans were more noble because they compared the spoken Word of God with the written Word of God (Acts of the Apostles 17:11). In other words, if the Bereans thought the written Word was corrupt in some way they would have no way of really knowing if the spoken Word of God was true or not.

#3. KJV vs. Modern Translations.
A simple side by side comparison of the KJV vs Modern Translations shows us that the devil tries to place his name in the Modern Versions. Have no idea what I am talking about?

Well, many Bible versions say that it is the dragon who is standing on the sea shore in Revelation. This is just evil and wrong.

See Parallel Version for Revelation 13:1 here...

Revelation 13:1 The dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name.

See, if you know anything about Bible language, standing on something means that you "own it"; And the devil wants to own you. In the King James, John is standing on the seashore. Yet in many Bible versions the dragon (i.e. the devil) is standing on the seashore.

Why is this a problem?

Let's look at...

Genesis 22:17

"That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the seashore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;"

Did you catch that? God says to Abraham that He will multiply his seed as the stars of the heaven and as the sand which is upon the seashore where he will then possess the gate of his enemies (i.e. the devil and his kingdom). The apostle John who wrote Revelation was Jewish and he was the promised seed of Genesis 22 standing on the seashore in Revelation 13. It was not the dragon or the devil standing on the seashore.

For certain Modern Versions eliminate the part of the passage in Revelation 13:1 that says that John is standing on the seashore (When he refers to himself as "I").

Also, the devil tries to take out key points in important discussions within the Bible (Which can affect doctrine). For example: In Romans 7 Paul talks from the Jew's perspective in keeping the Old Testament Law (Which leads to problems), and he gives us the climax or heart of his message as a solution in Romans 8:1. Now, certain modern translations have eliminated "who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Eliminating this passage destroys the whole thrust of Paul's argument. Walking in the Spirit is the key to being in Christ Jesus. You eliminate that and you destroy Paul's argument. Also, 1 John 5:7 is the only verse in the Bible that is the clearest and most concise teaching on the Godhead (i.e. the Trinity). For imagine if a man was marooned on an island, and he came to faith in Jesus by a Bible he found from somebody's luggage that swept up to shore. Would he not have a better chance at understanding the Trinity with a KJV Bible because 1 John 5:7 is in his Bible? Sure he would.

#4. Biblical Numerics.
Bible Numbers that glorify God and His Word. (Note: These are not equidistant letter sequences or numbers that attempt to get one to have a special dream, or to divine the future in some way - Striving to foretell the future is forbidden in the Bible). Numbers are something that we deal with in our everyday life and all things glorify God. So obviously the numbers in God's Word would naturally glorify Him in some way. What am I talking about? Check out this video on Numbers & the Greek New Testament.

Sevens in the Bible - Chuck Missler:

Also, here is a video series by Mike Hoggard that talks about the number 7 in the King James.

King James Code - Number 7 - Mike Hoggard (Part 1):

King James Code - Number 7 - Mike Hoggard (Part 2):

Now, while I may not agree with Mike and Chuck on everything they teach in the Bible nor on the way they teaches Bible numbers in every example, they do have some really great teachings on the subject. With Mike: I have found that he has made some startling discoveries. These discoveries do not appear in the modern translations but only in the King James.

Side Note:

Please keep in mind that I do use Modern Translations, too. I do so as to help update the 1600's Language sometimes in the KJV. But the KJV is still my final word of authority. I do not believe the KJV conflicts with the original Hebrew and Greek. I kind of look at Modern Translations like a man who pans through dirt to get to the gold (i.e. I use Modern Translation to get the heart of the meaning in the KJV). If something in a Modern Translation says something that is bad, I side with the KJV.

My preference is the ASV version. To me it appears to have the closest literal translation to the original Greek scriptures.

 

[justbyfaith]

I just watched another video by David Servant during lunch, and he is saying close to what I have been just saying.

He talks about the Sermon on the Mount.
He also talks about grace and the narrow way, too.

Finally listened to this: I am not in disagreement with what he has said, in the way that he said it.

@Jason0047, you could use some refining, as David Servant is refined in his way of teaching sanctification. A point for you to remember is that you must be sure to say clearly that you are not denying the reality of Ephesians 2:8-9 and how you are not denying it, even as he did.

Sincerely,

@justbyfaith.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Finally listened to this: I am not in disagreement with what he has said, in the way that he said it.

@Jason0047, you could use some refining, as David Servant is refined in his way of teaching sanctification. A point for you to remember is that you must be sure to say clearly that you are not denying the reality of Ephesians 2:8-9 and how you are not denying it, even as he did.

Sincerely,

@justbyfaith.

I have watched David Servant's other videos. He is not in support of Eternal Security. I am saying the same thing as David Servant. Not sure how you can agree with him because we are saying the same thing. He believes you need to obey God's commandments (works) as a part of the salvation equation.

You don't believe that.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

My preference is the ASV version. To me it appears to have the closest literal translation to the original Greek scriptures.

Reasons why I don't trust the ASV.

American Standard Version Exposed!
Please take note that I am not in support of this website's view on Soteriology. For they believe in Once Saved Always Saved (Which is something I am strongly against). I am merely in agreement with them in this article regarding the KJV vs. the ASV.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

impaho, salvation is this attitude of wanting that. Regeneration does this work in us, that when we surrender to Christ and are thereby saved, from that point onward He gives us a new nature that continues in that state of surrender based on the initial decision of surrendering to Him.

So God does not override our free will; but He works within us based on our freewill decision to surrender to Him; and therefore when we ask Him to regenerate our hearts so that we may no longer have any desire to disobey the Lord, He is able to do that. Of course we must be on the lookout in our own lives of any instances wherein we might take back our surrender from Him and begin again to walk in disobedience or unbelief. As the Holy Spirit, by whom we have been sealed, points out those instances wherein we begin to live for ourselves instead of Him, He is able to bring us back to that place of sweet surrender. Once redeemed, we find that the state of surrender is a sweet position and that the state of disobedience is bitter. Because our nature has been transformed so that we love righteousness and hate iniquity. Therefore we will gravitate towards what is sweet, and when we find ourselves in that bitter state of disobedience, we will not be content to continue in such a state, and will begin to seek the Lord for deliverance. Every born again believer who finds himself in the state of what is described in Romans 7:14-25, will have as his heart's cry, Wretched man that I am! Who shall rescue me from this body of death? He will be rending his heart and not his garment until he finds the answer: until he finds himself once again in the sweet arms of Jesus as a Romans 8, 1 John 3:9, Hebrews 10:14, 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 believer.

Romans 7:14-24 is Paul speaking when he was a Pharisee who had the Law.
Read the beginning of Romans 7. It gives you the context that he is talking to those who know the Old Law. We are to serve in newness of spirit and not in the oldness of the letter (i.e. the Old Law) (See Romans 7:6).

 

[BNR32FAN]

Reasons why I don't trust the ASV.

American Standard Version Exposed!
Please take note that I am not in support of this website's view on Soteriology. For they believe in Once Saved Always Saved (Which is something I am strongly against). I am merely in agreement with them in this article regarding the KJV vs. the ASV.

This person’s argument is very weak. In Colossians 1:16 the word used has a verity of similar meanings. Created by and thru are basically saying the same thing. Consider Genesis 1:26. Who do you suppose is saying this? I believe The Father is calling the shots. Jesus does the will of The Father. This verse implies that both the Son and Father and possibly even the Holy Spirit worked together on this. That man was created by more than one person of The Trinity and not by Jesus alone. The KJV is implying that Jesus created everything by Himself and the ASV implies that it was a cooperative effort.

1 John 5:7 the KJV adds to the original text where as the ASV version gives a more accurate translation to the original text.

1 John 5:7 For three are the testify

7 ὅτι (For) G3754 Conj τρεῖς (three) G5140 Adj-NMP εἰσὶν (are) G1510 V-PI-3P οἱ (the) G3588 Art-NMP μαρτυροῦντες (testify) G3140 V-PPA-NMP

“And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:7‬ ‭ASV

“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The ASV is simply giving the translation of the original text without adding to it. Are the original Greek texts attacking The Godhead? I say let God’s word be what it is and not what we want it to be.

Now about James 5:16 this person obviously doesn’t know anything about the original Greek texts. The word used is

Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

faults


G3900


Lemma:

παράπτωμα


Transliteration:

paráptōma


Pronounce:

par-ap'-to-mah


Part of Speech:

Noun Neuter


Language:

greek


Description:

1) to fall beside or near something

2) a lapse or deviation from truth and uprightness a) a sin, misdeed


Grammar:

from παραπίπτω; a side-slip (lapse or deviation), i.e. (unintentional) error or (wilful) transgression:--fall, fault, offence, sin, trespass.


Occurrences in Bible:

23


Occurrences in Verses:

20


KJV usage:

trespass (9x), offence (7x), sin (3x), fall (2x), fault (2x).

The writer first claims the ASV is catered to Jehovah Witness and now claims it caters to Catholics. So which is it? Catholics believe in The Trinity but this writer claims the ASV is refuting The Trinity not to mention that the ASV does not include the 7 books of the Septuagint so this guy doesn’t know what he is talking about which is why I never pay attention to these kinds of websites. Anyone can easily find a website like this to support any views they want concerning God’s Word. I’m not going to waste anymore time exposing this guy’s mistakes because it’s pointless. You say God can preserve His Word in the English versions of the Bible which were translated from the Greek texts so why would God be incapable of keeping His Word intact thru the Greek texts?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Reasons why I don't trust the ASV.

American Standard Version Exposed!
Please take note that I am not in support of this website's view on Soteriology. For they believe in Once Saved Always Saved (Which is something I am strongly against). I am merely in agreement with them in this article regarding the KJV vs. the ASV.

I need to ask what Orthodox Church teachings do you disagree with?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

This person’s argument is very weak. In Colossians 1:16 the word used has a verity of similar meanings. Created by and thru are basically saying the same thing. Consider Genesis 1:26. Who do you suppose is saying this? I believe The Father is calling the shots. Jesus does the will of The Father. This verse implies that both the Son and Father and possibly even the Holy Spirit worked together on this. That man was created by more than one person of The Trinity and not by Jesus alone. The KJV is implying that Jesus created everything by Himself and the ASV implies that it was a cooperative effort.

1 John 5:7 the KJV adds to the original text where as the ASV version gives a more accurate translation to the original text.

1 John 5:7 For three are the testify

7 ὅτι (For) G3754 Conj τρεῖς (three) G5140 Adj-NMP εἰσὶν (are) G1510 V-PI-3P οἱ (the) G3588 Art-NMP μαρτυροῦντες (testify) G3140 V-PPA-NMP

“And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:7‬ ‭ASV

“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The ASV is simply giving the translation of the original text without adding to it. Are the original Greek texts attacking The Godhead? I say let God’s word be what it is and not what we want it to be.

Now about James 5:16 this person obviously doesn’t know anything about the original Greek texts. The word used is

Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

faults


G3900


Lemma:

παράπτωμα


Transliteration:

paráptōma


Pronounce:

par-ap'-to-mah


Part of Speech:

Noun Neuter


Language:

greek


Description:

1) to fall beside or near something

2) a lapse or deviation from truth and uprightness a) a sin, misdeed


Grammar:

from παραπίπτω; a side-slip (lapse or deviation), i.e. (unintentional) error or (wilful) transgression:--fall, fault, offence, sin, trespass.


Occurrences in Bible:

23


Occurrences in Verses:

20


KJV usage:

trespass (9x), offence (7x), sin (3x), fall (2x), fault (2x).

The writer first claims the ASV is catered to Jehovah Witness and now claims it caters to Catholics. So which is it? Catholics believe in The Trinity but this writer claims the ASV is refuting The Trinity not to mention that the ASV does not include the 7 books of the Septuagint so this guy doesn’t know what he is talking about which is why I never pay attention to these kinds of websites. Anyone can easily find a website like this to support any views they want concerning God’s Word. I’m not going to waste anymore time exposing this guy’s mistakes because it’s pointless. You say God can preserve His Word in the English versions of the Bible which were translated from the Greek texts so why would God be incapable of keeping His Word intact thru the Greek texts?

I am not saying the writer is without 100% flaw in their thinking. They do after all believe in Eternal Security (Which is something I disagree with strongly). The point of the article was to show you that the KJV is superior by way of comparison by just looking at the verses they present. If you have a preference for the ASV over the KJV as your presupposition, then it does not matter what Scriptural evidence I present. You will always see the ASV as being better. I have objectively weighed the evidence for the KJV vs. other English translations and it is superior by way of comparison every time. Then again, I do not want to debate the KJV as being divine and perfect in origin in this thread (because that is not the topic of this thread). My suggestion is baby steps. Try watching a few videos by Mike Hoggard on Bible numbers.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I need to ask what Orthodox Church teachings do you disagree with?

This thread is not about the Orthodox Church's teachings.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I am not saying the writer is without 100% flaw in their thinking. They do after all believe in Eternal Security (Which is something I disagree with strongly). The point of the article was to show you that the KJV is superior by way of comparison by just looking at the verses they present. If you have a preference for the ASV over the KJV as your presupposition, then it does not matter what Scriptural evidence I present. You will always see the ASV as being better. I have objectively weighed the evidence for the KJV vs. other English translations and it is superior by way of comparison every time. Then again, I do not want to debate the KJV as being divine and perfect in origin in this thread (because that is not the topic of this thread). My suggestion is baby steps. Try watching a few videos by Mike Hoggard on Bible numbers.

I prefer a version that doesn’t inject men’s interpretations or views but instead gives the unedited message of the original authors.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I prefer a version that doesn’t inject men’s interpretations or views but instead gives the unedited message of the original authors.

While the Bible is physically written by the hand of many authors, I see it as God who is the original author; Therefore, seeing it is God who is the author ultimately, I believe His Word for us today can be shown that it is divine in origin. There are tests to confirm this if you are really interested in finding God's Word that is perfect and divine for our generation today as the Scriptures say. If you are not looking for that (for whatever motivation or personal reason), then you will never find it or see it. I know without a shadow of a doubt that the KJV is divine and perfect just as I know Jesus is real. But I will let you search out that truth for yourself on your own. But the KJV being perfect and divine is not what the thread topic is about. So I think it is best to move on from this particular point or discussion.

May God bless you.