Faith Plus Works

justbyfaith

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It's what the Bible teaches.

It is not what the Bible teaches.

So then we are saved on the basis of our works then. Thank you for helping me to prove my case against what you believe.

Evidently you think that the letter "d" is the same letter as the letter "k". Better get back to watching Sesame Street.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Both God and I know what you said; But this thread is not really about you and me. It is about the truth of God's Word in regards to how a believer needs both Faith + works of faith as a part of their salvation. It's what the Bible teaches.

After we are saved by God's grace,
God’s works (done through us) are also required as a part of the Salvation Process:


(Here are a List of Verses):


“Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).

"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.” (James 2:17-18).

"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).

"If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, "(1 Timothy 6:3-4).

"...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." (James 4:6).

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? (Romans 6:1-2).

"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." (Hebrews 5:9).

"Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14).

“...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth” (2 Thessalonians 2:13).

“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).

"If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha." (1 Corinthians 16:22).

"If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).

“If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have k my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.” (John 15:10).

"And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me." (Matthew 10:38).

”If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? (Matthew 16:24-26).

"...No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:62).

“Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.” (Matthew 5:8).

"Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls." (James 1:21).

"But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:8-11).

”And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.” (Revelation 22:12-15).

"For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." (John 3:20).

“For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” (Romans 11:21-22).

"...but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:17).

“Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” (Philippians 2:12).

“...And having become servants of God, ye have your fruit unto holiness and the end, everlasting life.” (Romans 6:22).

”Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.” (Matthew 25:34-40).

“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” (Matthew 25:41-46).

”His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.” (Matthew 25:21).

”And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 25:30).

”Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation [i.e. as the people of Israel did when they rebelled against him in the desert.”] (Hebrews 3:12-15) (Note: The explanation on verse 15 in brackets is taken from the Living Bible Translation (TLB)).

”Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)” (Hebrews 3:10-11).

”Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. (Hebrews 4:11).

“In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:10).

“He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God” (John 8:47).

These verses do not say that works play a part in our salvation. The only one that appears to comes close to saying that is James 2:24. But I’ve already explained that the Greek word dikaióō doesn’t only mean to be rendered as righteous it also means to show or evince one to be righteous.

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

justified


G1344


Lemma:

δικαιόω


Transliteration:

dikaióō


Pronounce:

dik-ah-yo'-o


Part of Speech:

Verb


Language:

greek


Description:

1) to render righteous or such he ought to be

2) to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered

3) to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

Brother, James cannot have meant that Abraham was rendered righteous by his works because it contradicts Paul in Romans 3. Notice that Paul is speaking about being rendered as righteous or being made right with God.

“Abraham was, humanly speaking, the founder of our Jewish nation. What did he discover about being made right with God? If his good deeds had made him acceptable to God, he would have had something to boast about. But that was not God’s way. For the Scriptures tell us, “Abraham believed God, and God counted him as righteous because of his faith.” When people work, their wages are not a gift, but something they have earned. But people are counted as righteous, not because of their work, but because of their faith in God who forgives sinners. David also spoke of this when he described the happiness of those who are declared righteous without working for it: “Oh, what joy for those whose disobedience is forgiven, whose sins are put out of sight. Yes, what joy for those whose record the Lord has cleared of sin.” Now, is this blessing only for the Jews, or is it also for uncircumcised Gentiles? Well, we have been saying that Abraham was counted as righteous by God because of his faith. But how did this happen? Was he counted as righteous only after he was circumcised, or was it before he was circumcised? Clearly, God accepted Abraham before he was circumcised! Circumcision was a sign that Abraham already had faith and that God had already accepted him and declared him to be righteous—even before he was circumcised. So Abraham is the spiritual father of those who have faith but have not been circumcised. They are counted as righteous because of their faith. And Abraham is also the spiritual father of those who have been circumcised, but only if they have the same kind of faith Abraham had before he was circumcised.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭4:1-12‬

Throughout James 2:14-26 James is explaining how our faith can be seen by others and how we show our faith. That is the key difference between his and Paul’s message brother. James is explaining two different types of faith. He mentions a saving faith that produces works and a dead and useless faith that does not produce works which is not a saving faith. Please notice in Romans 3:12 I put in bold letters. Paul says Abraham was justified (rendered as righteous) by the type of faith he had. James says Abraham was justified (shown to be righteous) by his works. Throughout Romans 3 Paul is speaking about being rendered or declared righteous and James 2 is speaking about being shown to be righteous.

What good is it, dear brothers and sisters, if you say you have faith but don’t show it by your actions? Can that kind of faith save anyone? Suppose you see a brother or sister who has no food or clothing, and you say, “Good-bye and have a good day; stay warm and eat well”—but then you don’t give that person any food or clothing. What good does that do? So you see, faith by itself isn’t enough. Unless it produces good deeds, it is dead and useless. Now someone may argue, “Some people have faith; others have good deeds.” But I say, “How can you show me your faith if you don’t have good deeds? I will show you my faith by my good deeds.” You say you have faith, for you believe that there is one God. Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror. How foolish! Can’t you see that faith without good deeds is useless? Don’t you remember that our ancestor Abraham was shown to be right with God by his actions when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see, his faith and his actions worked together. His actions made his faith complete. And so it happened just as the Scriptures say: “Abraham believed God, and God counted him as righteous because of his faith.” He was even called the friend of God. So you see, we are shown to be right with God by what we do, not by faith alone. Rahab the prostitute is another example. She was shown to be right with God by her actions when she hid those messengers and sent them safely away by a different road. Just as the body is dead without breath, so also faith is dead without good works.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:14-26‬

Notice the only place where James mentions actually being counted as righteous is verse 23. Abraham was counted righteous by his faith. I hope this helps you to understand a little more clearly brother. God bless:)
 
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These verses do not say that works play a part in our salvation. The only one that appears to comes close to saying that is James 2:24. But I’ve already explained that the Greek word dikaióō doesn’t only mean to be rendered as righteous it also means to show or evince one to be righteous.

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

justified


G1344


Lemma:

δικαιόω


Transliteration:

dikaióō


Pronounce:

dik-ah-yo'-o


Part of Speech:

Verb


Language:

greek


Description:

1) to render righteous or such he ought to be

2) to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered

3) to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

Brother, James cannot have meant that Abraham was rendered righteous by his works because it contradicts Paul in Romans 3. Notice that Paul is speaking about being rendered as righteous or being made right with God.

“Abraham was, humanly speaking, the founder of our Jewish nation. What did he discover about being made right with God? If his good deeds had made him acceptable to God, he would have had something to boast about. But that was not God’s way. For the Scriptures tell us, “Abraham believed God, and God counted him as righteous because of his faith.” When people work, their wages are not a gift, but something they have earned. But people are counted as righteous, not because of their work, but because of their faith in God who forgives sinners. David also spoke of this when he described the happiness of those who are declared righteous without working for it: “Oh, what joy for those whose disobedience is forgiven, whose sins are put out of sight. Yes, what joy for those whose record the Lord has cleared of sin.” Now, is this blessing only for the Jews, or is it also for uncircumcised Gentiles? Well, we have been saying that Abraham was counted as righteous by God because of his faith. But how did this happen? Was he counted as righteous only after he was circumcised, or was it before he was circumcised? Clearly, God accepted Abraham before he was circumcised! Circumcision was a sign that Abraham already had faith and that God had already accepted him and declared him to be righteous—even before he was circumcised. So Abraham is the spiritual father of those who have faith but have not been circumcised. They are counted as righteous because of their faith. And Abraham is also the spiritual father of those who have been circumcised, but only if they have the same kind of faith Abraham had before he was circumcised.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭4:1-12‬

Throughout James 2:14-26 James is explaining how our faith can be seen by others and how we show our faith. That is the key difference between his and Paul’s message brother. James is explaining two different types of faith. He mentions a saving faith that produces works and a dead and useless faith that does not produce works which is not a saving faith. Please notice in Romans 3:12 I put in bold letters. Paul says Abraham was justified (rendered as righteous) by the type of faith he had. James says Abraham was justified (shown to be righteous) by his works. Throughout Romans 3 Paul is speaking about being rendered or declared righteous and James 2 is speaking about being shown to be righteous.

What good is it, dear brothers and sisters, if you say you have faith but don’t show it by your actions? Can that kind of faith save anyone? Suppose you see a brother or sister who has no food or clothing, and you say, “Good-bye and have a good day; stay warm and eat well”—but then you don’t give that person any food or clothing. What good does that do? So you see, faith by itself isn’t enough. Unless it produces good deeds, it is dead and useless. Now someone may argue, “Some people have faith; others have good deeds.” But I say, “How can you show me your faith if you don’t have good deeds? I will show you my faith by my good deeds.” You say you have faith, for you believe that there is one God. Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror. How foolish! Can’t you see that faith without good deeds is useless? Don’t you remember that our ancestor Abraham was shown to be right with God by his actions when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see, his faith and his actions worked together. His actions made his faith complete. And so it happened just as the Scriptures say: “Abraham believed God, and God counted him as righteous because of his faith.” He was even called the friend of God. So you see, we are shown to be right with God by what we do, not by faith alone. Rahab the prostitute is another example. She was shown to be right with God by her actions when she hid those messengers and sent them safely away by a different road. Just as the body is dead without breath, so also faith is dead without good works.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:14-26‬

Notice the only place where James mentions actually being counted as righteous is verse 23. Abraham was counted righteous by his faith. I hope this helps you to understand a little more clearly brother. God bless

Our English Bibles are translated from the Hebrew and Greek, and we surely cannot claim to know Biblical Greek better than Paul or those translators who formed our English Bibles we have today. So lets stick with what the Bible says in our English Bibles please. For our English Bibles should not conflict with what is said in the Hebrew and Greek because they were translated from these languages.

Anyways, to get down to business: Let me ask you a few questions that would relate to a believer who lives out his faith in this life (and not for those believers who accept Christ on their death beds).

Do you think we can refuse to preach (or spread) the gospel in this life and be saved?

This verse suggests otherwise.

"...No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:62)."​

Do you believe that we can be unprofitable servants and still be saved? Meaning, can we be saved by a "Belief Alone" with 0% works in our life?

This verse suggests otherwise.

”And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 25:30).​

Do you think we can refuse to help the poor in this life?

This passage suggests otherwise.

41 "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." (Matthew 25:41-46).
Do you believe we can hate our brother and still be saved?

This verse suggests otherwise.

"Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him." (1 John 3:15).​

Do you believe we can enter into life (salvation) by NOT keeping the Moral commandments (i.e. Laws written in our conscience telling us what is right and wrong, like: Do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, etc.)?

This verse says otherwise.

"but if you wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:17).​

Do you think you can not love Jesus (as the Bible describes loving Jesus) and still be saved?

Jesus says,

"If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).​

Is one loving Jesus by keeping His commandments?

Paul says that not loving Jesus means that person is accursed.

"If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema (i.e. accursed)" (1 Corinthians 16:22).​

So yeah, I really do not see how you can think that works do not play a part in the salvation process. Nowhere does God say we can disobey Him and still be saved. Does a King favor disloyal servants? No. Does a father keep a son who murders and rapes in his own household to be at the dinner table? Surely not. We actually do have to be good as a part of God's saving grace. If not, it is just a mere paying of lip service and we are not really sorry. For if a man cheated on his wife and told her that he was sorry, would it really mean anything if he did not stop cheating on her? No. His profession of saying "sorry" would be empty and hollow because he did not plan to stop in his sins against his wife. She can grant him forgiveness, but if the marriage is to be reconciled or restored, he actually has to live faithfully after having said he was sorry. It is no different with God.

God's grace is not a license for immorality on any level. Jude 1:4 warns against those who turn God's grace into a license for immorality.

"For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord." (Jude 1:4) (NIV).

Again, a person can deny God by a lack of works (See Titus 1:16).
Jesus says we will know a tree by it's fruit.
Are we bringing forth good fruit of the Lord within us to show that the good tree lives within us or are showing forth bad fruit, thereby showing that God does not live within us?

Side Note:

Please keep in mind that if a believer does commit a grievous sin, they can be forgiven of it by confessing it (with the true heart intention that they are going to forsake that sin - And not with the intention that they cannot help but to sin because nobody is perfect, etc.) (See 1 John 2:1, 1 John 1:9, Proverbs 28:13).
 
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It is not what the Bible teaches.

Okay, you just saying that really doesn't mean anything. To prove that you are correct in any way, you have to give a word for word commentary on at least 2-3 verses in Post #316. It also wouldn't hurt for you to make a parable or real world example explaining how your belief is Morally superior, too.

You know, because God's ways are always morally superior and good, right?
Oh, and please keep in mind that it is biblical to make parables of our own.
The Canaanite woman was able to expound upon Jesus's parable with an extended parable (real world example) of her own. She said that "...even the dogs eat scraps that fall from their masters' tables." (Matthew 15:27).

You said:
Evidently you think that the letter "d" is the same letter as the letter "k". Better get back to watching Sesame Street.

I fail to see how that has anything to do with my reply to what you have said. But thank you for the insult. I will rejoice in God my Savior for it.
 
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Our English Bibles are translated from the Hebrew and Greek, and we surely cannot claim to know Biblical Greek better than Paul or those translators who formed our English Bibles we have today. So lets stick with what the Bible says in our English Bibles please. For our English Bibles should not conflict with what is said in the Hebrew and Greek because they were translated from these languages.

Which is why I quoted an English version that specifically states that Abraham was shown to be right with God by his works and counted as righteous by his faith. The Bible never says we are counted righteous by our works or made right with God by our works. It is by having the type of faith that produces works that we are made right with God.

Do you think we can refuse to preach the gospel in this life and be saved?

Do you believe that we can be unprofitable servants and still be saved? Meaning, can we be saved by a "Belief Alone" with 0% works in our life?

Do you think we can refuse to help the poor in this life?

Do you believe we can hate our brother and still be saved?

Do you believe we can enter into life (salvation) by NOT keeping the Moral commandments (i.e. Laws written in our conscience telling us what is right and wrong)?

Do you think you can not love Jesus (as the Bible describes loving Jesus) and still be saved?

So yeah, I really do not see how you can think that works do not play a part in the salvation process. Nowhere does God say we can disobey Him and still be saved. Does a King favor disloyal servants? No. Does a father keep a son who murders and rapes in his own household to be at the dinner table? Surely not. We actually do have to be good as a part of God's saving grace. If not, it is just a mere paying of lip service and we are not really sorry. For if a man cheated on his wife and told her that he was sorry, would it really mean anything if he did not stop cheating on her? No. His profession of saying "sorry" would be empty and hollow because he did not plan to stop in his sins against his wife. She can grant him forgiveness, but if the marriage is to be reconciled or restored, he actually has to live faithfully after having said he was sorry. It is no different God.

God's grace is not a license for immorality on any level. Jude 1:4 warns against those who turn God's grace into a license for immorality.

All of these are examples of exercising faith. Faith produces these qualities in a person. Faith is not simply believing it is a devotion to serving God. Devotion is a mindset not a work. Devotion produces works. This is easy to see in the definition of the Greek word pistis. I really don’t understand why you reject the original language of the scriptures which are more accurate. It is the English versions that have the inaccurate translations. Take for example Exodus 20:4

“Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭20:4‬

This translation is inaccurate. We are not forgiven to make graven images of likeness. The Hebrew word that was translated to image is pecel. Pecel specifically refers to carved or graven idols. It does not refer to images of likeness. The word for images of likeness is tselem which is used in many verses pertaining to likeness. On example would be Genesis 1:26-27

“And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the heavens, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. And God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:26-27‬

The word tselem is used for image in these verses. So in Exodus 20:4 the proper translation would be do not make graven idols not graven images of likeness.

Let me show you some more examples of bad translations. Take the word repent for example. That is a terrible translation for the word metanoia. Look at the definition of repent.

Repent- 1.deep sorrow, compunction, or contritionfor a past sin, wrongdoing, or the like.

2. regret for any past action

Now look at the definition of metanoia

Metanoia- 1) to change one's mind, i.e. to repent

2) to change one's mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins"Repentance (metanoia, 'change of mind') involves a turning with contrition from sin to God; the repentant sinner is in the proper condition to accept the divine forgiveness.

Now let’s look at the word faith translated from the Greek word pistis.

Faith-1.complete trust or confidence in someone or something: "this restores one's faith in politicians"synonyms:trust, belief, confidence, conviction, credence, ... moreantonyms:mistrust

2.strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.synonyms:religion, church, sect, denomination, persuasion, ... more
  • ▪a system of religious belief: "the Christian faith"
  • ▪a strongly held belief or theory:"the faith that life will expand until it fills the universe"
Pistis-1) a strong and welcome conviction or belief that Jesus is the Messiah, through whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God c) the religious beliefs of Christians d) belief with the predominate idea of trust (or confidence) whether in God or in Christ, springing from faith in the same

2) fidelity, faithfulness a) the character of one who can be relied on.

Again this is another clear example of an inaccurate translation. In the same way you are misinterpreting James 2:21 because of an inaccurate translation. Much to my surprise I am seeing many dictionaries defining the word justified as being shown or proven to be just or right. When I had last checked the definition I didn’t see so many dictionaries with that definition. I really don’t know what else to say. I’ve already pointed out the difference between the context of James and Paul when referring to the justification of Abraham. James was undoubtedly explaining how someone is shown to be right with God and Paul is explaining how someone is actually counted or made right with God.
 
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Which is why I quoted an English version that specifically states that Abraham was shown to be right with God by his works and counted as righteous by his faith. The Bible never says we are counted righteous by our works or made right with God by our works. It is by having the type of faith that produces works that we are made right with God.

Well, I am not suggesting that you put the cart (works) before the horse. I am talking about works of faith that follows faith in Christ. Works of faith is merely the by-product of one's faith. If one does not have these works of faith, then their faith is dead or inoperative. But do not be deceived that a lack of works or grievous sin cannot separate a person from God. The verses I had shown clearly shows this plainly. Again, the unprofitable servant is cast into outer darkness. A believer can start off having faith, but if they do not eventually produce works of faith, they can be the unprofitable servant whereby there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. I sure don't want that, I wouldn't want that scenario for anyone.

All of these are examples of exercising faith. Faith produces these qualities in a person. Faith is not simply believing it is a devotion to serving God. Devotion is a mindset not a work. Devotion produces works.

Faith and works of faith go hand in hand. If a person is not doing works of faith, or they are committing grievous sin, they can have an evil heart of unbelief and depart from the living God (See Hebrews 3).

We need to endure in our faith to continue to be saved:

"But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;" Hebrews 3:13-14.

"Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him." James 1:12.

"But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. Matthew 24:13.

"...be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." Revelation 2:10.

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." Revelation 2:7.

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death." Revelation 2:11.

"He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels." Revelation 3:5.

"Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." Jude 1:21.

This is easy to see in the definition of the Greek word pistis. I really don’t understand why you reject the original language of the scriptures which are more accurate. It is the English versions that have the inaccurate translations.

Okay. You did not grow up reading and speaking Biblical Greek, and we do not have an apostle Paul around to correct you to see if you are truly correct. Biblical Greek is not your native tongue. You can no more say you know a dead language than for you to say you know the intricate workings of how God formed the universe out of nothing. It's simply knowledge that you are only guessing by what some religious dictionary says. How do you know your religious dictionary got it right? You don't. With the English, you cannot cheat. God is also not going to hold people accountable to knowing a Bible in a language that they cannot possibly understand, either. God is going to hold people accountable in a language that they can be held accountable by. Please take note that Jesus said to beware of the scribes. The scribes are those who "Tran-scribed" the law or the Scriptures. James says God has chosen the poor of this world to be rich in faith. I don't know about you, but I do not see believers who were poor through out history having access to fancy Lexicons so as to preach God's Word. Jesus chose simple people like fishermen, too. He did not choose scholars or scribes. In other words, the "Original Languages Only" position is not something you will be able to find or defend in the Holy Scriptures.

You said:
Take for example Exodus 20:4

“Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭20:4‬

This translation is inaccurate. We are not forgiven to make graven images of likeness. The Hebrew word that was translated to image is pecel. Pecel specifically refers to carved or graven idols. It does not refer to images of likeness. The word for images of likeness is tselem which is used in many verses pertaining to likeness. On example would be Genesis 1:26-27

“And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the heavens, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. And God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:26-27‬

The word tselem is used for image in these verses. So in Exodus 20:4 the proper translation would be do not make graven idols not graven images of likeness.

I believe the Bible when it says that we are not to make any likeness of any image of any deity, too. For certain religions also falsely worship images. These are idols, too; And they would fall under the 2nd Commandment. In fact, there really is not much difference between a 3D image and a 2D image. Both are technically images and both can be used as a part of idol worship. I have seen pictures of people bowing before an image or picture before. This is idolatry and would fall under the 2nd commandment. If a person decorates their house with tons of pictures of squirrels, this kind of like making an idol out of squirrels. We are told to flee from idolatry.
 
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Repent- 1.deep sorrow, compunction, or contritionfor a past sin, wrongdoing, or the like.

2. regret for any past action

Now look at the definition of metanoia

Metanoia- 1) to change one's mind, i.e. to repent

2) to change one's mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins"Repentance (metanoia, 'change of mind') involves a turning with contrition from sin to God; the repentant sinner is in the proper condition to accept the divine forgiveness.

This is not so. Here is...

A Biblical Case For Repentance:

At the heart, I believe the Bible teaches that repentance means, "Asking God for forgiveness" (Which of course naturally then leads to the "fruits of repentance", i.e. obedience to the Lord):

Important Note: While I may believe "Repentance" does involve to a certain degree a "change of mind" (like a person changing their mind about their old life of sin), I do not think "Repentance" exclusively means a “change of mind.”

Anyways, here are my ten points using Scripture showing that "repentance" means "asking God for forgiveness of sin."

#1. Acts 2:38,
The New Living Translation says in Acts 2:38 to "repent of your sins."
Douay Reheims says in Acts 2:38 to "Do penance."
New Life Version says in Acts 2:38 to "Be sorry for your sins"


#2. Luke 17:3 says, "Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him." This doesn't make any sense if "repent" means believe in Jesus (as some teach) or to have a change of mind about sin (as others teach) or to exclusively forsake sin. Yes, we are to forsake sin as a part of repentance but that comes later after repentance (Which is to ask God for forgiveness of our sin). For how can we reconcile with a brother if we do not say we are sorry vs. just going on about life as if we did nothing wrong?


#3. Jesus said in Matthew 12:41 that the Ninevites will rise up in Judgment against this generation because they repented at the preaching of Jonah. If you were to turn to Jonah chapter 3, you would be able to see in Jonah 3:6-10 that the King of the Ninevites had told his people to:

(a) Cry out to God (i.e. Repentance) (See Jonah 3:8).
(b) Turn from their sins or evil ways (i.e. The Natural Fruits of Repentance).​


#4. Matthew 3:6 (which then lines up with Matthew 3:8). Also, in Mark 1:4-5, it says John preached the "baptism of repentance" for the remission of sins (verse 4), and it then defines this "baptism of repentance" by saying they confessed their sins when they were baptized (verse 5).


#5. We see in Acts of the Apostles 8:22 a clear example of Peter telling Simon to "repent" of his wickedness in trying to pay for the Holy Spirit. Peter is telling Simon to make a prayer towards God. For Peter says that he should pray that God might forgive him. In other words, Peter is telling Simon to repent of a one time event of wickedness by way of prayer to GOD. This only makes sense if "repent" means to "ask for forgiveness."


#6. Ezekiel 14:6 says,
"Repent, and turn yourselves from your idols;" Repent makes the most sense here if a person is asking God for forgiveness by way of prayer instead of a person just believing in God. Naturally a person believes in God as their Savior if they are planning on forsaking their idols.


#7. We see repentance is the topic of discussion in Luke 15 (Luke 15:6) (Luke 15:10); This is then followed up by the "Parable of the Prodigal Son" with the son desiring to be reconciled with his father. We learn the WAY the Prodigal Son desired to be reconciled with his father when he said,

"I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee, And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants." (Luke 15:18-19).

In other words, the Prodigal Son was seeking forgiveness. This ties into the point of repentance in Luke 15:6 and Luke 15:10.

#8. Luke 10:13 says,
"Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works had been done in Tyre and Sidon, which have been done in you, they had a great while ago repented, sitting in sackcloth and ashes." This rules out the theory that repentance is exclusively forsaking sin. Granted, forsaking sin always follow true repentance (Asking God for forgiveness of one's sins) but forsaking sin is not repentance. The word "repented" here is describing a one time event because they "repented", sitting in sackcloth and ashes. In Jonah 3:6 we learn that the King of Nineveh sat in sackcloth and ashes. In Jonah 3:8, the King of Nineveh tells people to put on sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God (i.e. repentance): and then turn from their evil way (i.e. the fruits of repentance).


#9. John the Baptist says we are to bring forth fruits worthy of repentance (Luke 3:8). Fruits are deeds (or obedience to God). How can repentance be the same thing as the fruit? Is the fruit the same thing as the tree?


#10. Jeremiah 8:6 says, "I hearkened and heard, but they spake not aright: no man repented him of his wickedness, saying, What have I done? every one turned to his course, as the horse rusheth into the battle." Here we see the word "repented of wickedness" tied with the words, "What have I done?" This is an acknowledgement of one's sin to God as a part of asking His forgiveness.


Notable Additional Verses that Deal with Repentance
(But They Do Not Use The Word "Repent" or "Repentance"):


"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." (Romans 10:13).

13 "And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. (Luke 18:13-14).

Proverbs 28:13 says whosoever confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy.
 
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Now let’s look at the word faith translated from the Greek word pistis.

Faith-1.complete trust or confidence in someone or something: "this restores one's faith in politicians"synonyms:trust, belief, confidence, conviction, credence, ... moreantonyms:mistrust

2.strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.synonyms:religion, church, sect, denomination, persuasion, ... more
  • ▪a system of religious belief: "the Christian faith"
  • ▪a strongly held belief or theory:"the faith that life will expand until it fills the universe"
Pistis-1) a strong and welcome conviction or belief that Jesus is the Messiah, through whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God c) the religious beliefs of Christians d) belief with the predominate idea of trust (or confidence) whether in God or in Christ, springing from faith in the same

2) fidelity, faithfulness a) the character of one who can be relied on.

Again this is another clear example of an inaccurate translation. In the same way you are misinterpreting James 2:21 because of an inaccurate translation. Much to my surprise I am seeing many dictionaries defining the word justified as being shown or proven to be just or right. When I had last checked the definition I didn’t see so many dictionaries with that definition. I really don’t know what else to say. I’ve already pointed out the difference between the context of James and Paul when referring to the justification of Abraham. James was undoubtedly explaining how someone is shown to be right with God and Paul is explaining how someone is actually counted or made right with God.

James says he will show you his faith by his works. These are works of faith. James says faith without works is dead. So you need works of faith in order to show that you have a true faith. This is simply what the Bible says. We are justified by works and not by faith only as James says because works of faith are a part of our faith. It's what we read in Hebrews 11. They had faith (belief) which then led to works of faith (and not works of the Law). For a believer who lives out his faith: If there is no works of faith, and there is no genuine and true faith. You can no more separate "works of faith" from "faith" than you can separate wetness from rain. The two go hand in hand. Jesus says, why do you call me Lord, Lord if you do not what I say? So a person may say that Jesus is their Lord and or they may even believe that fact until they are blue in the face, but if they are not doing what Jesus says, they are showing they are not really trusting or believing in Jesus Christ (Thereby exhibiting a true faith).

Let me give you an example:

If Rick said that his old rocking chair on his porch was able to hold his weight, and he said he believed that with all his heart, would he truly be showing forth that his statement of faith was true if he never sat in the chair? Especially if he was asked to sit in it and yet he refused to do so? In other words, if Rick believed that his porch chair would hold his weight (and he told others this), he would no doubt take the action necessary by sitting in that chair to prove that such a statement was true. Otherwise it would just be an empty profession of faith. In other words, if a person says they love God, and they have no visible good fruit to show that such a thing is true, then it would be just an empty profession of faith that they love God. Meaning, they really do not love God. It would just be a paying of lip service. I mean, a man can say he loves his wife, but if he does nothing to please her in any way, then he really does not love her. Action shows forth whether one's faith is the genuine and the real article vs. it being fake.
 
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BNR32FAN

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How do you know your religious dictionary got it right?

By cross referencing from several different sources. Google metanoia and see how many different definitions you get. I could say the same about the English translation. How do you know the scholars and scribes got it right? The Greek language has been preserved over the years and was never a lost language.

The scribes are those who "Tran-scribed" the law or the Scriptures.

I hate to break this to you but the Bible has been hand copied for well over a thousand years by scribes. That’s what scribes do. They’re basically a human copying machine.

I don't know about you, but I do not see believers who were poor through out history having access to fancy Lexicons so as to preach God's Word.

Then you don’t know much about the Greek Orthodox Church. They have always kept the Greek language since the very beginning of Christianity. They still to this day study the same Greek bible.

He did not choose scholars or scribes. In other words, the "Original Languages Only" position is not something you will be able to find or defend in the Holy Scriptures.

Paul was a scholar and who do you think translated the Bible from Greek to English? Scribes and scholars that’s who. Ever heard of William Tyndale? He was an English scholar who translated the Bible from Greek texts to English in the 16th century.

I really don’t see any point in discussing your posts about the definition of particular words in the Bible if you are going to dismiss Greek dictionaries all over the world. There’s no basis for comparison. If you look closely at the definition of metanoia I provided you can see that it does fit the scriptures you provided. Metanoia does not simply mean a change of mind.
 
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Do you believe we can hate our brother and still be saved?

This verse suggests otherwise.

"Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him." (1 John 3:15).
Do you believe we can enter into life (salvation) by NOT keeping the Moral commandments (i.e. Laws written in our conscience telling us what is right and wrong, like: Do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, etc.)?
A man is not going to hate his brother if the love of God is shed abroad in his heart by the Holy Ghost through faith.

We receive the Holy Spirit through faith (Galatians 2:14) and we receive the love of God through the Holy Spirit (Romans 5:5). And love is the fulfilling of the law (Romans 13:8-10, Romans 8:4).

So you see, salvation is through faith alone; and the love of God being shed abroad in our hearts is a part of salvation. And it is through this aspect of salvation that we are obedient to the Lord. We serve Him because we love Him; and we love Him because He first loved us.
 
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By cross referencing from several different sources. Google metanoia and see how many different definitions you get. I could say the same about the English translation. How do you know the scholars and scribes got it right? The Greek language has been preserved over the years and was never a lost language.

Sure, you can say that, but the proof in the pudding is actually showing the pattern in Scripture and how it makes sense as a whole in Scripture. I believe my Biblical case for repentance refutes the standard explanation given to us in a religious dictionary (that was created by men). Then again, God has hidden these things from the wise. If you were to look at the Scriptural references I made for "repentance = asking God forgiveness," you will see that is what it actually means.

You said:
I hate to break this to you but the Bible has been hand copied for well over a thousand years by scribes. That’s what scribes do. They’re basically a human copying machine.

And Jesus said beware of the scribes. It's what Jesus said. His words are for our learning today. To ignore them is dangerous.

You said:
Then you don’t know much about the Greek Orthodox Church. They have always kept the Greek language since the very beginning of Christianity. They still to this day study the same Greek bible.

The Jews kept the Hebrew Scriptures but they did not interpret God's Word correctly. Granted, I am not speaking against the Greek Orthodox church mind you, I am just saying that just because they may make such a claim does not mean anything unless one has the proof that what they say is true. For me, they would need a time machine to prove that their understanding on the Greek is EXACTLY like it was in Paul's day. Their claim that they have the right interpretation and or they passed down the original meaning does not mean anything to me. God is not the God the dead but of the living. God deals with us today. His Word exists in the world language for today and not in some distant past that is no longer. History and or some church is not my authority. The Bible is my authority. This would be a Bible that I can read and understand in my own language because God is not going to hold me accountable to some dead language I cannot possibly ever know because I did not grow up reading and speaking Biblical Greek as a part of that culture. Looking back hindsight and or looking to religious dictionaries is only going off what other religious men have said. I prefer to just read and believe God's Word by faith. For faith comes be hearing and hearing the Word of God and not religious dictionaries and or some church and it's dogma (or extra biblical traditions).

You said:
Paul was a scholar and who do you think translated the Bible from Greek to English? Scribes and scholars that’s who. Ever heard of William Tyndale? He was an English scholar who translated the Bible from Greek texts to English in the 16th century.

Was Paul a scribe? Did he tran-scribe the Torah? I am not so sure about that. He was a Pharisee to my knowledge. Did he later write Scripture inspired by the Holy Ghost? Yes. But that is not the same thing as a scribe.

As for William Tyndale: Obviously not ALL scribes are going to be bad. God had to preserve His Word in some way through out time. So when Jesus says beware of the scribes, he is saying beware of the majority of them (and not the select few God had chosen to preserve His Word). Note: Please keep in mind that I believe the Bible perfectly existed in the Latin (Not the corrupt Latin Vulgate) before it perfectly existed in the English with the 1769 KJV. Also please take note that 7 other languages (to my knowledge) have made a translation of the KJV, as well. So the KJV does not just exist in the English. God's perfect Word has spread to other countries.

Anyways, seeing I believe the KJV (1769) is the divine and perfect Word of God for our day, of course I am aware of William Tyndale. But I strive not to make my focus of my studies about man made history because men can be flawed and can make mistakes. The Word of God is different. God preserved His Word through men through out history in various different languages.... perfectly. If God's Word is not divine and not perfect.... then it is not God's Word. His Word is a reflection of the character of God.

You said:
I really don’t see any point in discussing your posts about the definition of particular words in the Bible if you are going to dismiss Greek dictionaries all over the world. There’s no basis for comparison. If you look closely at the definition of metanoia I provided you can see that it does fit the scriptures you provided. Metanoia does not simply mean a change of mind.

I can say the same thing for you. If you do not accept what your English Bible says, then from my point of view, it seems like you are trying to change God's Word. But I believe God's Word has been preserved for our day. God does not make mistakes. God's Word claims that it is perfect (Psalms 12:6) (Psalms 119:140) (Proverbs 30:5) and that it will be preserved for all generations (Psalms 12:7) and it will stand forever (Isaiah 40:8) (1 Peter 1:25).

Please keep in mind that I am not new to debating the KJV-Only position. I have heard all the arguments before and have debated it ad nauseam for many years. I heard the many supposed contradictions and have refuted them. So I would prefer not to get into that kind of debate here. In fact, I use Modern Translations to sometimes help me to see what is said in the KJV, but the KJV is still my final word of authority. God's Word should change us, and we should not change God's Word by every wind of doctrine. There are clear warnings not to tamper with God's Word. I really wouldn't want to have to face God one day for having messed with His Word in any way. For me, I am not going to change what God's Word says for our day. If it says.... "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:" (Exodus 20:4).... I believe that by faith. For faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God. Faith does not come by doubting God's Word or by changing it because we do not like what it says.
 
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Certain scriptures in the Bible have to do with the law: they show the requirement that God has set for perfect holiness to the unbelieving sinner who believes that he will save himself through works.

Other scriptures reveal the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ; they show how the Lord has provided a way for us to be saved even though we all fall short of God's perfect standard.

If you study carefully and long enough, you will discover that God's way of saving us is through the forgiveness that comes through faith in Jesus' shed blood on the Cross of Calvary.

Our sin is ever before us (Psalms 51:3).

And therefore sinless perfection is something that God sets forth to you like a carrot on a stick until you simply realize that you cannot ever get the carrot and give up. So now that you are no longer chasing the carrot, your eyes are opened to the extravagant Thanksgiving Dinner that has been right there the whole time; and you eat to your heart's content.

How is forgiveness rather than sinless perfection morally superior?

It is not that it is morally superior: it is that it is superior in the practical sense. It is morally equal however.

When we realize that we are forgiven unconditionally (with the exception of faith in Jesus Christ which is the only condition), we are set free to be ourselves in the Lord and because we have been forgiven much we will love Jesus (and our neighbor) much (Luke 7:36-50, 1 John 4:19, Romans 5:5).

We are no longer under pressure because of an obligation to keep the law perfectly. There is no longer the weight of needing to obey the Lord perfectly.

So now that we are set free from that heavy weight, we are better able to carry His yoke, which is easy; and His burden, which is light.

That burden and that yoke is simply the love of God in our hearts. To live according to it does indeed require work and labour. But it is a work of faith and a labour of love. It is something that we do, not because we have to, but because we want to.

'nuff said!
 
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A man is not going to hate his brother if the love of God is shed abroad in his heart by the Holy Ghost through faith.

We receive the Holy Spirit through faith (Galatians 2:14) and we receive the love of God through the Holy Spirit (Romans 5:5). And love is the fulfilling of the law (Romans 13:8-10, Romans 8:4).

So you see, salvation is through faith alone; and the love of God being shed abroad in our hearts is a part of salvation. And it is through this aspect of salvation that we are obedient to the Lord. We serve Him because we love Him; and we love Him because He first loved us.

Okay. We are told to endure until the end to be saved. So God living within us is not going to force save us to endure because we are told to endure until the end. No such command would ever be given to us if what you say is true.

Yes, God's love can be shed abroad in our hearts, but we still have free will and we still have to KEEP ourselves in the love of God.

"Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." (Jude 1:21).
 
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Certain scriptures in the Bible have to do with the law: they show the requirement that God has set for perfect holiness to the unbelieving sinner who believes that he will save himself through works.

Other scriptures reveal the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ; they show how the Lord has provided a way for us to be saved even though we all fall short of God's perfect standard.

If you study carefully and long enough, you will discover that God's way of saving us is through the forgiveness that comes through faith in Jesus' shed blood on the Cross of Calvary.

Our sin is ever before us (Psalms 51:3).

And therefore sinless perfection is something that God sets forth to you like a carrot on a stick until you simply realize that you cannot ever get the carrot and give up. So now that you are no longer chasing the carrot, your eyes are opened to the extravagant Thanksgiving Dinner that has been right there the whole time; and you eat to your heart's content.

How is forgiveness rather than sinless perfection morally superior?

It is not that it is morally superior: it is that it is superior in the practical sense. It is morally equal however.

When we realize that we are forgiven unconditionally (with the exception of faith in Jesus Christ which is the only condition), we are set free to be ourselves in the Lord and because we have been forgiven much we will love Jesus (and our neighbor) much (Luke 7:36-50, 1 John 4:19, Romans 5:5).

We are no longer under pressure because of an obligation to keep the law perfectly. There is no longer the weight of needing to obey the Lord perfectly.

So now that we are set free from that heavy weight, we are better able to carry His yoke, which is easy; and His burden, which is light.

That burden and that yoke is simply the love of God in our hearts. To live according to it does indeed require work and labour. But it is a work of faith and a labour of love. It is something that we do, not because we have to, but because we want to.

'nuff said!

I have already explained Psalms 51:3. It's not as you say.
Anyways, please take no offense, but I do not feel it is worth my time to keep explaining things to you in Scripture if you keep repeating the same mantra of what you prefer to hear and you refuse to explain any verses I put forth.

Besides, the Bible clearly gives us many warnings (even for the believer).
Granted, you are free to believe as you wish, but you will not be able to say one day that I did not give to you the warnings in the Bible. I said what I needed to say with you involving Scripture. It is up to you now to wrestle out and deal with those Scripture verses; And I will pray that they will be open to you someday.

Anyways, may the Lord's love shine upon you (even if we disagree strongly).
 
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justbyfaith

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I have already explained Psalms 51:3. It's not as you say.
Correct. It is as King David said under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit in Psalms 51:3, the verse in question.

This is not the only verse that tells us of the total depravity of man. There is a mighty plethora of verses that say the same.
 
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justbyfaith

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So God living within us is not going to force save us to endure because we are told to endure until the end. No such command would ever be given to us if what you say is true.
And yet what I say is true.

The command to endure is a part of the aspect of law in the holy scriptures.

The aspect of grace tells me that I am sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption and that His influence in me will cause me to endure to the end.

He will never leave me nor forsake me. Therefore if I am faithless, He abides faithful because He cannot deny Himself. And the fact that He will never leave me nor forsake me indicates that my faith will not fail when it is tested. Therefore I will endure to the end; not because of anything in me: but because He dwells within my heart and will never leave me, and therefore I cannot ever be separated from His love. I am His and He is mine forevermore.
 
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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
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It is written,

"Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them: for the LORD your God, he it is that does go with you; he will not fail you, nor forsake you." (Deuteronomy 31:6).​

Yet, in the same chapter:

16 "Behold, you shall sleep with your fathers; and this people will rise up, and go play the harlot after the gods of the strangers of the land, where they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them.
17 Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them, and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall befall them; so that they will say in that day, Are not these evils come upon us, because our God is not among us?" (Deuteronomy 31:16-17).​

In other words, God will not forsake us, unless we forsake him by sinning. The worship of other gods is the breaking of God's commandments (Which is sin). The Israelites did not have any protection to sin anymore than we do.

28 "He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? " (Hebrews 10:28-29).

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, " (Hebrews 10:26).
 
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it is not enough to say, Lord, Lord.
A person has to actually obey or do the will of the Father to enter the Kingdom of Heaven (See Matthew 7:21).

The will of the Father (GOD) is our Sanctification (holiness) (See 1 Thessalonians 4:3).
 
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Also, to have the seal of God (i.e. the sealing of the Holy Spirit), one needs to labor for the meat that endures unto everlasting life (Which is given to us by the Son of Man's teachings).

"Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed." (John 6:27).
 
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