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Faith Movement

Discussion in 'Non-denominational' started by Annabel Lee, Jun 6, 2002.

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  1. Didaskalos

    Didaskalos He is Lord Of ALL Supporter

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    >>>>Do not think that because I'm ending it that you have blown holes in scripture. I will discuss the issue with you no more.

    Sorry sir,

    Quaffer<<<<


    Dear friend,
    I hope you come back and read these posts one more time, because I want to tell you how much your messages bless me personally, am I am sure help others also. I am writing this this because I do not know how to get to you via email. But please please return and continue to defend the Word, the Gospel, and the Faith! :clap: :clap:

    I agree that it is difficult to read the false accusations made against those of us who believe the word; and even made against God Himself. It is very painful to see people make lite of the suffering of the Lord when He loved us so much so as to take our sins and our sicknesses. In my mind, it is as if they are standing there and watching Jesus receive those stripes and telling him "oh Jesus, that beating you are taking does not mean anything to me.. it is more important to me that I glory in my flesh... God is going to teach me with my own sufferings and use my sicknesses , I do not need or want your sufferings, I want to do it myself !". That may not go down well for some, but that is what it seems like.

    Sometimes it is as if they worship a different child-abusing monster God who is so weak and so powerless that can only achieve His purposes by killing babies and putting people in wheelchairs. That is not the glorious loving Father I see in the scriptures and have walked with for many years. I cannot imagine what unbelievers think when they read that the Christian God kills, steals, and destroys His own children! It is just beyond belief!
    In one way I can understand why people insist on believing this way. People want to feel that God is in their lives and that they are being used in some way by Him. Because they are ignorant of the scriptures and the plan God has to be in their lives, they make up these stories in their own mind to put Him there. Instead of doing it the way God intends(that is by believing His word and walking in the light of it), they imagine that He is using and even causing their problems! A person does not have to believe anything to do that... they only have to sit there, suffer, and assume themselves faithful in the doing. Of course that is ignorance gone to seed, designed to cater to ones own flesh, feelings, and self image... and is in total contradiction to the gospel. After all, "feelings " are more important in this culture(world) than anything are they not? Feelings are so important to this world, that these people are willing to slander God, remain sick, slander and lie about the messengers(like you dear friend!) who bear the good news of the gospel of the Kingdom(which includes healing), and even talk sick people out of the blessings of healing and health(I have seen them do it!!). All so they can stand up and say "Look at me , see how faithful I am. I am sick and love God anyway..." They are getting the glory instead of God. Which we know is the whole point is is not? Those all important :bow: "feelings". Amazing!

    But I would even BEG you to return. Don't let the lies they spread about God deter you from telling the truth that He is Love! Not crazy, fanatical, "terrorist" love that would kill people, make people sick, send planes into buildings ... etc all for some unknown "higher purpose". But real love that we understand, can relate to, and can share (not only with each other), but love that tells us we can receive from God and know that we will always receive the expected "love" things and blessings. It is no wonder that some of these people are so cruel and mean spirited. That is the way they see their Father... and after all, "like father like son". They see their "perfect father" killing, stealing, destroying, telling lies, etc, and they want to be perfect just like him!!! In a way, they do have the same terrorist mentality of those who strap bombs onto themselves and fly planes into buildings. Like the fanatical terrorist, they imagine there is some sort of "higher purpose" in these evil evil things. They would even tell you that God is behind these things and I have even heard some say that God directly causes them! Beyond belief! And it is all designed to protect their precious-precious feelings and to not damage their all so important sense of being "faithful".

    You :holy: have faithfully shown forth the light of a loving caring Father that draws people to God the way "good news" is supposed to. You have intelligently and eloquently put forth sound and logical arguments. You have not returned their railing with railing, lies for lies, insults with insults... rathering to depart instead. I one more time plead for you to return. You are a blessing to me! I am new to the forums, and do not have any blessings yet(they only bless the ones that they agree with... people like us never receive their blessings). If I had some I would give them all to you.

    Please come back! :pray:
     
  2. SpiritPsalmist

    SpiritPsalmist Heavy lean toward Messianic Supporter

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    Hobart,

    Thanks so much for your kind word.

    By ending it, I meant that I would no longer discuss the issue with him. I will discuss it with anyone else though. :D

    This was a difficult concept for me to grasp also, but after many questions and much searching through the Bible I had to conclude that God meant "everything" He said not just some of it.

    I grew up in a Penticostal invironment and always saw people healed. I never heard God did not do that anymore until I started working with religious people, and like you said to make themselves feel better they invented religious reasons why it did not happen anymore. :cry:

    But thanks be to God, Jesus is still in the business of healing the sick, bringing good news to the poor and redeeming lost souls. Hallelujah! :clap:

    Thanks again, and I've given you some blessings

    Quaffer :hug:
     
  3. Andrew

    Andrew Well-Known Member

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    Hey Hobart and esp Quaffer,

    You guys have done a great job at defending scripture and honouring Christ's work. My church and I believe strongly in healing and that God prospers too. So dont feel discouraged by Louis remarks (they are typical of Christians who are against healing and prosperity). If you've done your best, just let it go, as the Holy Spirit wont force anyone to believe.

    hope we can still discuss and learn more from each other.

    testimony:
    just recently, I was believing God for healing to my throat. there was a pain there on one side whenever I swallowed hard, and esp when I was thirsty. It was there for a few months, and it didnt feel like a sore throat or ulcer. I shined a torchlight into my throat and couldnt see anything wrong. I kept confessing the word and standing on it. At one time it seemed to get better then it seemed to get worse. I was thinking of seeing a doc and silly thots of "throat cancer/tumour" were begining to enter my mind. But one day recently, I just noticed that it was gone! Praise the Lord!

    BTW: my wife suffers from asthma. I sense the Lord telling me that if she would receive the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and pray in tongues, it would help improve her health. later, my pastor said that in the principle of firstfruits (1/10), if you give your tongue to God, he has your whole body ie better health. that was sort of a confirmation. but my wife just aint interested. what do you think?
     
  4. SpiritPsalmist

    SpiritPsalmist Heavy lean toward Messianic Supporter

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    Hey Andrew,

    Thanks for your words.

    Regarding your question about your wife, I think that if she is not interested then leave it be. You can continue to pray for her healing though. And pray that God will show her what He wants to do. If she's content with asthma, only the Holy Spirit can change her.

    While speaking in tongues is for the upbuilding of the person speaking (1 Cor 14:2,4)it is not necessary for faith. Although, the practice of it does build one's faith.

    We are told that if we control our tongue then we can control our whole body. I believe that is aiming at what we speak. If we say "I'm sick" then we get what we say. But, if we say "I'm feeling sick, but God's Word says that by His stripes I'm healed", then we are speaking life.

    We cannot deny what is happening, but we can speak Gods Word and change what is happening. It may take standing on His Word for years. That's the way it happened with me. And while I never saw the manifestation of miraculous healing, I none the less, believe His Word says I was.

    God supplied the means for me to have the surgery I needed and I received a full paycheck the intire six weeks I was off work. Also, everyone who had to touch my body as a result of satan's attack I claimed for the Kingdom of God. Either way I was the winner.

    Jesus said we would be judged by our words. Death and life are in the power of the tongue.(Prov 18:21)

    It's made very clear, that what we speak is extremely important.


    Blessings brother,

    Quaffer
     
  5. TruelightUK

    TruelightUK Tilter at religious windmills

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    I see no-one has yet addressed the question of Timothy's sickness. Given what has been said about healing being in the atonement, and only sinful/ignorant/faithless Christians being sick, which category would you place Timothy in? And, while you're at it, why do you think Paul advised him on medical treatment for his recurrent gastric problems, rather than exhorting him to build up his faith, confess the Word and rebuke the devil etc. etc.? Let's face the facts, while there are definite principles about God healing, prospering and protecting HIs people, there are also many Biblical examples where apparently righteous, faith-filled people do not enjoy these benefits - without any 'blame' being attatched to them! The picture is not so simplisticly black and white as most faith preachers would have us beleive.

    Anthony
     
  6. Didaskalos

    Didaskalos He is Lord Of ALL Supporter

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    You have obviously not read the posts. :scratch:


    Again... you obviously have not read the posts. :confused:


    Third time: You have not read the posts. :sigh:

    Let's face the facts. :( You have not read the posts, have no idea what we are talking about, and are just repeating tired, over used, empty straw man arguments that you heard or read somewhere and that that really do not deserve a reply. When you have gone back and actually read the posts, please join the discussion. I think we will be pleased to include you.


    In this case it is. You simply have not read the posts. :(
     
  7. SpiritPsalmist

    SpiritPsalmist Heavy lean toward Messianic Supporter

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    Hey Hobart,

    :wave:

    When I first read the post before yours I wanted to hit my head repeatadly on my computer.

    When I read yours, I started laughing. :clap:

    Anyway, God is so good!

    If people could only understand what "standing in faith means". It does not mean that we instantly get everything God promises.

    It's like, when your mom tells you she's gonna make your favorite meal one night that week. Then on Monday night you going into depression wondering why she's has not done it yet. Then, you telling your friends that your mom does not keep her promises because she has not made your favorite meal yet and it's only Tuesday afternoon. Hmm!

    Yes standing in faith is hard, long, and not fun at all, until the answer comes. Sometimes it's instantly, but most the time I have found it is not. Especiall, as I grow older in the Lord.

    We are not seeking after health or prosperity. We are seeking after God. We, like everyone else are just trying to obey God in "every" area that we see deficiancy in ourselves. Not just the places that are the easiest for us to fall in to.

    Not all who are sick are weak in faith, ignorant, or sinfull. Not one of us even hinted at such a statement.

    Talk more with ya later Hobart,

    Be blessed,

    Quaffer :angel:
     
  8. TruelightUK

    TruelightUK Tilter at religious windmills

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    Okay Mister - I confess, having been out of this discussion for a week due to working out of town, I did miss a couple of pages of posts, due, I can only assume, to unwittingly hitting the 'last page' button rather than the 'first unread post' one. My apologies for the obvious offence this caused. However, I feel the tone of your response was uncalled for - one simple reference to the relevant posts would have been more gracious (and helpful). However, having now skimmed through the entire thread, I concede that some attempt has been made to address the Timothy issue. However, I still maintain that a straight answer to the specific questions I pose has not, so far, been forthcoming. If, by any chance, I have still overlooked something, please point me to the post in question, without indulging your inclination to belittle me further - or perhaps, for the benefit of a bear of so obviously little brain, you might like to summarise a specific reponse in words of one syllable!

    And, for your information, my reservations are from my own reading of the Scriptures - in reaction to indoctrination received during 10 years in a 'Faith' Church, and not just something I heard from a pulpit somewhere or read in a tract. Unlike, I suspect, the arguments put forward by many defenders of the Word of Faith position - I certainly speak for myself when I was preaching such simplistic stuff. However, If they are still not worthy your condescension to reply, then please forgive me for wasting your time!

    And, by the way, in case you haven't read any of my posts on the subject, I do believe in divine healing, have been healed myself of various minor ailments, seen others spectacularly healed of major diseases, and would encourage anyone who is sick to seek God's intervention (tho' not as a right to be demanded, but as a grace freely given). But I have also seen several sincere, devout folk badly hurt by the judgemental attitude of would-be healers! And I now recognise that there are many cases of 'non-healings' which cannot just be dismissed on the '3 causes' grounds cited above. Sometimes we have to be honest and say we do not know the answer to every question, rather than try to manufacture a convenient response.

    Anthony
     
  9. Didaskalos

    Didaskalos He is Lord Of ALL Supporter

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    Ok... I deserved that. :sorry:

    Sometimes it seems like even when people do read the posts... they don't read the posts! No one that I have seen has called anyone faithless, sinful, or put them down in any such way. Yet that is the main (and apparently only) argument that is being pushed. If we are gonna talk about the scriptural basis (or non) of healing and health, let's do it. But this continual wave after wave of straw men is not getting us anywhere.
     
  10. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    "You have pasted and copied peoples words and then refrased them in your own words to mean what we are not saying. "

    I have done nothing of the sort. I go back and read your own post if you have forgotten what you have said.

    "If you want to be sick, then by all means, stay sick. "

    the problem the bible and I have with doctinres like you advocate is that if you're sick and pray to be healed and you're not somehow you're not praying or faithful enough. This simply isn't true biblically and I'm not going to stand around while that lie goes on. Sorry :)
     
  11. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    so holbert, you still failed to give him a reference post where this issue was addressed..can you please do so now?
     
  12. Andrew

    Andrew Well-Known Member

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    quote: "However, having now skimmed through the entire thread, I concede that some attempt has been made to address the Timothy issue. However, I still maintain that a straight answer to the specific questions I pose has not, so far, been forthcoming."

    Firstly why do you assume it's only addressed to Timothy? Paul was giving him instructions to pass on to the church Tim was sheperding. If you read a few verses down, Paul tells Tim to "teach" these things. Even if Tim or others were sick, Paul is giving the solution: stop drinking only water and use a little wine - it's good for health. Sometimes, the answer to our healing comes miraculously, sometimes its "common sense stuff" like rest more, stay off the oily stuff, or even "go for that op" which we may regard as wisdom from God or simple HIS WAY of getting us healed.

    Secondly, why do you use one case to build a doctrine against healing? What about all the other scriptures we have quoted? How about the fact that Jesus healed all who came to him. He never turned anyone away.

    Thirdly, why do you keep assuming that anyone and everyone who believes in healing puts down Christians who don't. And what is the big deal? I admit i might have faith for healing but lack faith in many other areas but i dont have to get upset when someone points that out to me. We ourselves have gone thru sickness, we still get sick at times, and we have loved ones who are sick or have been sick. We are not insensitive to such people.

    Fourthly, who's saying that Tim was a faithless servant of God. Obviously he had great faith, or he wouldnt be a servant of God recorded in the Bible! At most I'd say that he was probably wonderin why he was sick frequently, perhaps he prayed to God to deliver him, claimed healing by faith and waited for an answer -- and the answer came: "take a little wine". Perhaps he did that and was in better health after that.

    Whatever, the fact still remains that Christ bore our sicknesses and healing is part of the redemption.

    It is like sin. Christ bore our sins. But some Christians still go around feeling condemed and sin conscious. That doesnt change the fact that Christ died for their sins 2000 years ago. Yet there are Christians who dont go around with sin consciousness and condemnation, becos they have more revelation and faith in the fact that Christ has carried all their sins and washed them whiter than snow. So it is the same with sickness.

    finally, rem that we are on this side of the cross. Jesus HAS died and RISEN. Things have changed. No point quoting Job and all from the OC and applying their lives to the church. Job didnt have a risen Christ who bore his sins/sicknessed at the cross but we do. And we are to recognise that big difference at least.
     
  13. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    "Firstly why do you assume it's only addressed to Timothy? "

    In the verse (if you had bothered to read it) he addresses him directly since the letter was to timothy. You need to read the context (something you dont' seem to do) in verse 21 he says , I charge you (ie timothy) for the letter was written to him. in verse 23 he says yourself. its very clear he is talking to timothy.

    "Secondly, why do you use one case to build a doctrine against healing? "

    This is a case against those who are not healed are not faithful enough. That is clearly not biblical. God is not a meal ticket and chooses not to allow healing in certain people. We can't MAKE God do things by being faithful. God is GREATER then our faith.

    "And what is the big deal? "

    Its a dangerous false docterine. Read Counterfit revival.

    "Perhaps he did that and was in better health after that. "

    Nope he was sickly. The point is to show you that faith doesn't mean you get whatever you want.


    "So it is the same with sickness. "
    NO that's not true at all. God lets people go through sickness for his glory and sometime to teach them something. HE NEVER wants people to go through sin. "I prayed for great strenght that I might accomplish great things in his name, I was given sickness that I might learn to humbly obey." That's a quote from my favorite poem.

    "No point quoting Job and all from the OC and applying their lives to the church. "

    You are about unbiblical as they come. the OT is there for our learning and to apply it to our lives. Its teachings did not disappear with christ coming, they were fufilled.


    "Job didnt have a risen Christ who bore his sins/sicknessed at the cross but we do. And we are to recognise that big difference at least."

    YOu have no idea what the bible says do you? We have hope in the promice just as abraham did. Read romans chapter 4.
     
  14. SpiritPsalmist

    SpiritPsalmist Heavy lean toward Messianic Supporter

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    Hobart and Andrew,

    Hey guys, you're doing a great job. Don't become discouraged in well doing. I'm praying.
     
  15. SpiritPsalmist

    SpiritPsalmist Heavy lean toward Messianic Supporter

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    Hey Anthony,

    . . . and we agree with you. God's grace is not to be demanded but received. What I'm understanding some in this forum to be saying is that as a child of God that being born is enough and basically all there is.

    Emagine, fathering a child and then walking away saying, good luck kid, I gave you life that's all you need. The child would die. And the dad would be considered a dead beat and a murderer.

    Our Father God does not do that to us. We are born again and not only do we have the grace of living in His household but we have all the privilages as well. We get to eat at His dinner table. We have access to ALL HIS GRACE, not just the grace of being born again.

    Hobart, Andrew and I have said repeatadly that we do not know why Timothy was sick. Scripture does not tell us. It also does not tell us that he died sick. So, on both sides we are speculating.

    There were 3 reasons I gave that I believe are backed up by scripture as to what CAN cause sickness. 1. Sin (Deut. 28:15-68) If God called disobedience a curse, it's a curse. Period. 2. Lack of knowledge (Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge) 3: An attack of satan (John 10:10).

    At the root of all sickness is satan. ALL of us are attacked in some way by satan. If we are not then we need to question whose child we are.

    But God has given us weapons of warfare to fight satan with and what I hear from some on this post is that we are not expected to use them. They are just there to look good. Sorta like the little armor pictures on this site.

    Again, I repeat, not one of us is saying that the reason everyone is sick is because of sin or unfaithfulness. Not one of us is saying that we are to demand healing or anything else from God. Not one of us is saying that everytime you get prayed for the manifestation is to happen immediately. While that would be ideal, it does not happen. If it did why would we be told to "stand firm"?

    Hebrews 3:5-10 "And Moses certainly was faithful in the administration of all God's house [but it was only] as a ministering servant. [In his entire ministry he was but] a testimony to the things which were to be spoken [the revelations to be given afterward in Christ]. But Christ (the Messiah) was faithful over His [own Father's] house as a Son [and Master of it]. And it is we who are [now members] of this house, if we hold fast and firm to the end our joyful and exultant confidence and sense of triumph in our hope [in Christ].

    Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says: Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts, as [happened] in the rebellion [of Israel] and their provocation and embitterment [of Me] in the day of testing in the wilderness, Where your fathers tried [My patience] and tested [My forbearance] and found I stood their test, and they saw My works for forty years. And so I was provoked (displeased and sorely grieved) with that generation, and said, They always err and are led astray in their hearts, and they have not perceived or recognized My ways and become progressively better and more experimentally and intimately acquainted with them."

    According to this scripture we are expected to get to know God better. We are to know ALL His ways, not just the ones that fit our circumstances. We are to stand firm and obey what He says. Period.

    God Bless you brother,
     
  16. Andrew

    Andrew Well-Known Member

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    quote: "in verse 23 he says yourself. its very clear he is talking to timothy."

    Well then rip those pages off your Bible since you believe it's addressed only to Tim. And if you yourself wld read posts carefully, I said it's instructions passed on to Tim to teach the church, ie us. And Paul has given Tim the solution to his health problems. Prove to me from scripture that Tim remained sickly till he died.

    quote:"This is a case against those who are not healed are not faithful enough. That is clearly not biblical."

    Firstly, Tim's case does not support the heresy that God wants some sick. Maybe you want some of your kids to be sick and stay sick to 'glorify' you but its heretical to preach that our Father in heaven is like that. Thy will be done on earth AS IT IS in heaven. So obvioulsy your idea of heaven contains lack and disease. Without faith it is impossible to please God. If you can't and won't believe God wants to heal, then of course you wont have faith to receive healing. And if you teach others that, then of course you remove their faith to receive.

    quote:"Its a dangerous false docterine. Read Counterfit revival."

    Perhaps you shld read the Bible more. And if this "false doctrine" can heal a cancer patient and make him fall in love with Jesus, let's have more of it!

    quote: "God lets people go through sickness for his glory and sometime to teach them something. "

    That's pure nonsense. If you really believe such heresy, then you ought to be praying to God day and night for sickness that you might glorify him and be taught something. Gosh, you might else well fast and pray that God might make your whole church and your loved ones sick.

    Quote: "I prayed for great strenght that I might accomplish great things in his name, I was given sickness that I might learn to humbly obey."

    Rather then listen to the Word you go for a poem, in which this author is clearly dillusional. Sorry, my God doesnt give me a scorpion or a snake when I ask him for something. So why not inject some virus into your kids that they may "humbly obey" you. And if you think this is human reasoning, then you shld read Luke 11:11.

    quote: "You are about unbiblical as they come. the OT is there for our learning and to apply it to our lives."

    So, you practise an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth? You worship on Saturday and undergo circumcision. Come on, even Jesus knew how to rightly divide the Word. Dont interpret the Word as if Christ did not die.

    And I've yet to see you address Deu 28:61 and Gal 3:13. Or Isa 53:4. Or the Greek sozo for saved.
     
  17. Mandy

    Mandy Well-Known Member

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    So if a Christian gets the flu, it is from satan?
     
  18. Didaskalos

    Didaskalos He is Lord Of ALL Supporter

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    I could Louis, but I do not see the point. I know I have (as have Andrew and Quaffer) repeatedly stated that we do not consider people who do not receive healing to be "non-prayers" or "not faithful" or "sinners" or any such negatives. You are perfectly correct on this point, and there is really no reason to address it since we are in agreement. We also have addressed the Timothy issue a number of times.

    I personally do not like to engage in discussions with folks who default toward the emotional end of the spectrum. Everybody else gets dragged into it, nothing is ever accomplished, people say things they do not mean, and feelings (as well as consciences) get hurt. Just no point. I would enjoy discussing the topic... but not if it always comes back to the same old same old.
     
  19. SpiritPsalmist

    SpiritPsalmist Heavy lean toward Messianic Supporter

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    Well Mandy,

    Since satan is the one who comes to kill, steal, and destroy (John 10:10)I believe it is safe to assume that anything that brings weakness to our bodies or our spirits has begun with him.

    If we go out into the cold without proper covering and get the flu it came upon us because of our not being careful. We know that our bodies react poorly to these situations. So, in the forfront, it's our lack of wisdom, but sickness as a whole is from Satan.

    God gave us natural laws to repel satans attack, He's also given us spiritual laws to repel the attack. When we go against either law we open ourseves to the attack.

    Christ redeemed us from the law of sin and death. However, many Christians have the "ugly duckling" mentality. We've been told that we are swans but we still think we have to live like ducks.

    Christ did everything necessary for us at the cross. He redeemed us and He delivered us from all our diseases.

    It is not sin to be sick. It is sin to tell others that God wants us that way. It is Jesus Who said "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, (Luke 4:18 KJV)

    Jesus' good news was good all the way, through and through. There is no place that says He would deliver us spiritually but leave us physically in want. Ps 23 makes that pretty clear. If God was that good to David who's Savior had not yet appeared, why would God not be just as good to us?

    It is good, that if you are ailing that you walk in the light of the Lord and be joyful and keep yourself busy and everything else that will bring glory to God. However, to believe that God wants you to be sick is in serious error.
    Imagine, your sister telling you that dad wants you to jump of the golden gate bridge so that he can look like a better father. And, if you did it that dad would now not do everything possible to save your life and to make you whole?

    That is certaintly not the picture of our Heavenly Father (Luke 11:11) As I said in another post, if one truly believes that God wants them to be sick so they can learn something, then they are going against God's will everytime they go to a doctor.

    When you tell your children to do something, how much of what you tell them do you expect them to obey? I would assume it would be all. Can we expect that God would be any different?

    We must look at ALL scripture and reason with God (IS 1:18-21). By not doing what scripture says we are disobedient. Period. If it tells us to rejoice always, it means always. No grumbling allowed. Just do it! It's that way with everything He says. They're not suggestions, they are commands.

    No, I'm not promising riches and total health in a matter of seconds, or minutes, or days, or weeks, or months, or years, etc. But it will certaintly be set in motion.

    God is good!
     
  20. LilyLamb

    LilyLamb The Lord is My Shepherd

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    +1
    I'm glad you added this ... cause I do believe the Lord has healed me ... I have yet to see the healing, but I know He is faithful and when the time is right I will see the manifestation of my healing ... even if it means waiting til I see heaven's gates or the return of my Saviour.

    One afternoon after church I stayed behind to pray (I was a teenager) and as I prayed I confessed that I knew that God "could" heal me and felt a tingling from my head to my feet and a rush of peace like I've never experienced before or since ... I knew that God had "touched" me ... I haven't seen evidence of the healing, but I know it's just a matter of time. I also know that had the Lord manifested the healing back then, I would not know the things I know today and I would not be the person I am today - my sufferings have helped to make me who I am - I have turned to the Lord many times and had I not had this "broken leg" (see story below) then I would not have let my Shepherd be in a position to carry me and teach me His love, His patience, His timing, His grace and His mercy.

    Sometimes a sheep wanders alittle to much and for it's on good a Shepherd will break the sheep's leg to keep it from straying. He will then bind the leg and while it is healing He will carry the sheep, singing to it, loving it and holding it until the leg is completely healed - at that point the sheep "knows" the Shepherd and His love and will not wander ... obviously the Lord is still working in me as He conforms me to the image of my Saviour and so He carries me ......
     
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