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Faith Movement

Discussion in 'Non-denominational' started by Annabel Lee, Jun 6, 2002.

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  1. SpiritPsalmist

    SpiritPsalmist Heavy lean toward Messianic Supporter

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    Louis,

    I am stunned!  I just cannot understand how one can fully know Christ as Savior and believe about Him what you believe.  Please, hear my heart.  If we were speaking in person you would see that I am deeply grieved that you believe such things about our Lord and Savior. 

    If the things that you believe are true, then He can be neither Lord or Savior.  You appairently know God in a different way than I do.  He has never been abusive to me.  My earthly father was, but not my Heavenly Father.  You're way of belief gives me no hope whatsoever.  :(

    In Mark 1:32 the Strong's Concordance clarify's the word many as "much and large".  Those two words in no way translate into "some". 

    The reason that I go to various types of meetings is to learn more about the issue being discussed.  I am a worship leader, therefore I like to hang around other worship leaders.  Especially those who's ministry is full of the presence of God.  And, if I was there for any other reason, that would be between me and God. Not you and me and God.  You have no business judging the hearts and intents of other peoples hearts.  You do not know anyone's heart.  And from the words that are spewing out of you I don't think you know even where your own heart is.

    I fear for you brother.  You have tread onto some very thin ice.

    I fear for the one's that you are teaching these things to.  You are taking away their hope.

     

    HumbleJoe,

    Judging others hearts is far from being humble.  You have much to learn.

    I agree that God does use sickness.  But I will not agree that God is the one who makes us sick.  Not all sickness is due to the sin of the person who is sick.  We have clarified that over and over, again and again.

    However, having said that, let's take a look another issue here.

    Judging others hearts is a sin.  What goes up must come down.  That's the law of gravity.  Whatever a man sows, he will reap.  If you sow judgment, you will reap judgment.  And, according to Jesus, you will reap it according to the measure you have judged.  I would site that for you but you need to search it for yourself.  I already know where they are and you obviously do not.  It's your job to search it out.  If you cannot find it, then I will help you.

    According to the Word, you are guarenteed to reap what you've sown.  The next time someone judges your heart, remember this conversation.

    But, don't despair, Jesus is ready and willing to forgive you and heal the pain in your heart of the judgement you are receiving as according to the way you judged.  No need to go into dispair. And, as we agree, if you let Him, He will teach you something through it.

    I'm not meaning to be rude.  I am just too stunned at what you all believe about our Savior. :pray:

     
     
  2. Caedmon

    Caedmon kawaii Supporter

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    Which do you think pleases God: a sermon on how to get rich, or a sermon on how to pursue sanctification?
     
  3. Caedmon

    Caedmon kawaii Supporter

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    Oh please... attack my character... my studies... my demeanor... even *gasp*, my heart! But pleeeaaassseeeee don't attack my username!!! :cry:

    If God doesn't cause sickness, then who does?

    Ooohhhhh, thank you, thank you, thank you, Rabboni. I shall do good to reprimand myself and relearn how to study scripture! :bow:

    You've questioned my humility and my salvation. I thought you said it was a sin to judge another's salvation. :confused:

    But don't despair, Jesus is ready and willing to forgive you and heal the pain in your heart of the judgement you are receiving as according to the way you judged.

    I'm not judging individual people's hearts, I'm making valid observations of charismatic spectacle.
     
  4. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    "So I'd rather put my trust in him first and listen to sermons about this than to only read money magazines. "

    God's word tells us how to manage it, not how to make it.
     
  5. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    "If the things that you believe are true, then He can be neither Lord or Savior. "

    False statement. he can do everything and be everything I have said and be Lord and Savior and God.

    "He has never been abusive to me. My earthly father was, but not my Heavenly Father. You're way of belief gives me no hope whatsoever. "

    Let me tell you a story. You're a bear and you're caught in a bear trap. Now a hunter comes long to free you. To do so he has to push the trap farther into your wound to release it. You think he is hurting you but he is really helping you. Let me tell you another story. You have problems with pride. You're amazing at football. God allows your knee to give out so that football is taken away from you. As a result you rely more on God and less on yourself. God allows suffering to bring us to him. Christ got sick when he was here. If he had not, how can he know the pain of a cold? If I have a cold can I honestly say that the trial that comes with it christ has never been through? Nope.

    "You have no business judging the hearts and intents of other peoples hearts"

    I agree, but I have every right to judge their fruit and their teachings. I am commanding by my God to do so. Beward the theif that comes to kill and destroy. Beward the weeds that grow among the wheat. I'll not follow a false teacher thanks, no matter how brightly they shine. Satan was an angel of LIGHT ya know.

    "You are taking away their hope. "

    No, I'm actually allowing God to fully reveil himself to them. If they get sick I don't want them thinking they aren't faithful enough. Christ said that wasn't so. Read your bible. Might I sugguest the book of John. You should start with chapter 9. The subtitle in most bibles is a man born blind.
     
  6. SpiritPsalmist

    SpiritPsalmist Heavy lean toward Messianic Supporter

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    So, the only sermon I'm allowed to listen to or preach is to be about pursuing santification? I've know Jesus since I was a child. I was at least 4 years old. Contrary to what some teach, I did know what I was doing. I have never backslid. I never got involved in drugs, drink, or sex or any other vices. I have kept myself pure.

    I'm not saying I'm perfect. I've made my share of errors, but Holy Spirit convicted me on the spot, I repented, and went on with my life not to do the same thing again. 2 Peter 1:10 says, "Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never "fall"." To the best of my knowledge I do not need to repent everytime I go to a meeting. I am santified the moment I repent. I don't have to continue to repent of the same things over and over and over again. And neither should anyone else.

    I apologize if you feel I have attacked you. That was not and has never been my intent.

    Well, according to John 10:10 "The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly."

    I did not mean to sound as if I was judging your salvation. I questioned your method. I've been where you are, I've done what you're doing, and I paid the price dearly. The disipline of the Lord hurts. And at no time did His discipline include sickness or broken bones. He did definately show me Who the True Judge was though. And it was not me.

    While I may have been correct in my understanding of the scripture I was whelding like a jagged knife, I hurt more people than I helped and I regret it deeply. I've done a lot of apologizing and don't plan to ever have God put me through that again.

    My intent was to sound an alarm to let you know you're treading on dangerous ground to judge the motives and intents of others hearts.

    My thoughts on your heart motive is that you believe you are sounding the alarm that WOF people are false teachers. I am not WOF, but I do believe what I've read in the Bible. If it sounds like I'm WOF it's because I'm acting and speaking according to what I've read in the Bible.

    I believe I have given good backup for what I've shared. But the responses I've received back from anti WOF have not been very thoughtful. Nor have they backed themselves up very adequately. Trampling one scripture and using another one to do does not work. Scripture does not contradict itself. Therefore, we must see all of the scripure involved and come to a balanced opinion.

    I don't care what so and so from WOF says or does. I cannot answer for them. I can only answer for me, and what I believe, and why I believe it. To have my reasoning continuously ignored and being accused of saying things that I continue to deny is wrong. It shows me that the person I'm talking with is not listening. They've got it set in their mind that I'm a false teacher and they hear nothing I say.

    I've asked questions that are ignored. I'm referred to books that I've already read and responded as to why the author of that book is wrong. I don't want to be proven wrong according to another persons standards. I want to be proven wrong according to Gods standards. Not what another person says God's standards are, but what God says are His standard. I have gotten inadequate responses from anti WOF people. I only get yelled at. And I don't like being yelled at.

    A "valid" observation can be make only when we have all the facts about what we are observing. You do not know anyone's heart. According to the Word, only God can do that. You don't know their intent on why they are at said meeting. You don't know what they have been through before they got to the point they are at. You don't know what God has already done for them. You don't know. Therefore, any observation with the conclusion that your brother or sister has an "impure heart" is invalid.

    The demon possessed man, the women with the issue of blood, the lame guy who was dancing all over the place, the blind guy who was shouting at the top of his lungs. . . . all of these were experiencing very real things. They are not invalid just because you are not experienceing them.



    Louis,

    Again, you show your art of not listening. According to the Word the sacrificial lamb had to be spotless. Without blemish and healthy. That is not what you conveyed when you said that Jesus experienced sickness in His body during His life. He took all of this on at the cross and not until. If His blood was tainted it would not be able to pay the price for anyone's sins or heal anybody. Your statement ripped at my soul.

    One problem with this story is that I'm not a bear in a tree. I was never a bear in a tree. Jesus died for the sins of humans, not animals. His blood was pure and spotless.

    IS 53:6 "All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on <B>him</B> the iniquity of us all.

    This happend at the cross, not before. Jesus showed us how to walk in health, by being healthy. Jesus showed us how to walk in no lack, He had what He needed and then some. Otherwise, what was Judas stealing from? Jesus showed us how to cast out demons, heal the sick, and raise the dead. Jesus showed us how to walk like Him. Why would He teach all of that if we were not expected to learn it. In fact, He taught all that to the disciples before they were even saved and filled with the Holy Ghost.

    One's fruit and teachings cannot be adequately judged without knowing that person. If you have not sat down for yourself with a person in question and asked them questions, then you really do not know. By reading someone else's book, your going on second hand information.

    How would it be for you to write a manuel on Youth Leadership, only to have someone take a partiel sentence out of the middle of a paragraph from the middle of the book and teach that you said this in regards to that, when that was not even the same subject?

    The theif is Satan, not your fellow brother and sister. Also, what Jesus really said is:

    Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn. (Matt 13:24-28)

    It is not our job to pull weeds. God will do it at the end when we all stand before Him. Only He, not we, knows who the real weeds are. Because, "while man looks on the outward appearance, God looks on the heart".



    I've already clarified that faithfullness/unfaithfullness has nothing to do with sickness. But, alas, you keep on bringing it up.[/color][/font]
     
  7. Caedmon

    Caedmon kawaii Supporter

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    Quaffer, I apologize if my last post was offensive in any way. I was pretty emotional when I wrote it. I hope there's no bad blood between us. :sigh:
     
  8. Andrew

    Andrew Well-Known Member

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    quote: "Which do you think pleases God: a sermon on how to get rich, or a sermon on how to pursue sanctification?"

    humble joe,

    I gave you scripture to back up my point but you simply changed the topic somewhat.
    so how do you respond to this...

    De 8:18
    But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day.

    What pleases God? It's not the topic. It's whether the preacher follows the leading of the Holy Spirit. eg if God knows there are many sick people in the congregation, he'll direct the preacher to preach on healing so that their faith can rise and they can receive healing. Likewise for poverty vs prosperity. And this is not detracting from preaching the cross/salvation (the main thing) simply becos healing and prosperity are part of the cross/the gospel. I've already proven that in my earlier posts (did you see it?).

    quote:"God's word tells us how to manage it, not how to make it."

    Louis, I dont know whether to respond to your responses or not, becos I'm beginning to think you are not really of sound mind. Like Quaffer said, some of the things you said really shock me, and you dont really seem to read posts carefully. Sometimes, I feel Quaffer, Hobart and I are just wasting time.

    You do it again in the above quote. The verse clearly says God "giveth thee power to get wealth". ie he gives us the wisdom, energy, favour, grace etc to get wealth, whether its by someone blessing us with it (eg donation in money or kind) or by our working for it in a job. That to me is making money. And how can you manage money if you dont make/get some first?
     
  9. Caedmon

    Caedmon kawaii Supporter

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    Deuteronomy 8:18 is not an affirmation of afluent wealth. It's part of a section of scripture(Deu 8:11-20) where God's people are told that if they forget God and start trying to survive on their own, then they will be destroyed.
     
  10. Andrew

    Andrew Well-Known Member

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    humblejoe,

    the verse says what it says. if God does not want us to be well off -- so that we can bless others and finance the spread of the Gospel -- why in the world would he give us the power to get wealth? How do you reconcile the fact that Solomon, Abraham, David, Boaz were extremely rich? Clearly, there's nothing wrong with a Christian having wealth, as long as the wealth does not have him. If we want to come against Christians who are rich, then dont just come against the faith movt" ones. What about Billy Graham? He lives in a nice big home, has lots of money from his books too.
     
  11. SpiritPsalmist

    SpiritPsalmist Heavy lean toward Messianic Supporter

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    &nbsp;:D Of course not Joe.&nbsp; There is nothing bad about the blood of Jesus.&nbsp;

    No offense taken.&nbsp; :clap:

    :pink:

    What can wash away&nbsp;my sins? Nothing but the Blood of Jesus!

    What can make me WHOLE again? Nothing but the Bood of Jesus!

    Oh precious is the flow, that makes me white as snow,

    No other fount I know,&nbsp;Nothing but the blood of Jesus.&nbsp;

    :pink:&nbsp;
     
  12. SpiritPsalmist

    SpiritPsalmist Heavy lean toward Messianic Supporter

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    Hey again :wave:

    During my time with the Lord this morning I read these verses . . . Amplified Bible of course. . .

    :)

    Phil 4:10 - 13

    "I was made very happy in the Lord that now you have revived your interest in my welfare after so long a time; you were indeed thinking of me, but you had no opportunity to show it.

    Not that I am implying that I was in any personal want, for I have learned how to be content and satisfied to the point where I am not disturbed or disquieted in whatever state I am.

    I know how to be abased and live humbly in straitened circumstances, and I know alos how to enjoy plenty and live in abundance.&nbsp; I have learned in any and all circumstances teh secret of facing every situation, whether well-fed or going hungry, have a sufficiency and enough to spare or going without and being in want.

    I have strength for all things in Christ Who empowers me and I am ready for anything and equal to anything through Him Who infuses inner strength into me; I am self-sufficient in Christ's sufficiency."

    Verse 17 - 19&nbsp;"Not that I seek or am eager for your gift, but I do seek and am eager for the fruit which increases to you rcredit.&nbsp; The harvest of blessing that is accumulating to your account.

    But I have your full payment and more; I have everything I need and am amply supplied, now that I have received from Epaphroditus the gifts you sent me.&nbsp; They are the fragrant odor of an offering and sacrifice which God welcomes and in which He delights.

    And my God will liberally supply, fill to the full, your every need according to His riches in glory in Christ Jesus."

    SHORT TESTIMONY:

    Sunday night a week ago (the 14th) an offering was taken up in my church toward a need of someone in our body.

    I was able to give only $5 but I cheerfully gave it.&nbsp; A couple of days later, in the mail I received an anonamous gift certificate for $15 at a local supermarket.&nbsp;

    Well, my cupboards were already stocked.&nbsp; I thanked God for the "extra'.&nbsp; Inside, I believed it was not for me though.&nbsp; So, yesterday, I asked God to show me who He wanted me to replant my "seed" into?&nbsp; Then, I gave it anonamously to someone else.

    It felt so good to be able to do that.&nbsp; Just as the Word says, Now&nbsp;He that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness; (2 Cor 9:10)&nbsp;
     
  13. Caedmon

    Caedmon kawaii Supporter

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    I never said there was something wrong with a Christian being rich. You're trying to twist what I've been saying. That passage of scripture neither advocates nor admonishes wealth. The passage, in context, describes the consequence of rebellion against God.

    I refuse to advocate worship meetings where finance is the exclusive topic.
     
  14. SpiritPsalmist

    SpiritPsalmist Heavy lean toward Messianic Supporter

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    &nbsp;

    . . .and. . .if we don't forget God and we live&nbsp;according to His covenant. . .then what?

    I believe God want's to work a complete work in us.&nbsp; I believe we are each at a different stage in our walk with Him.&nbsp; Some of us have no problem with continuel, obvious sin (meaning, activity that God has spelled out as sin).&nbsp; However, we may struggle with financial issues that we need His help with.

    This is where I found myself a few years ago.&nbsp; Again, let me say, I'm not saying I'm perfect, I'm just aiming at it like everyone else. But, my finances were a mess.

    I sought financial information through all the earthly sources and none of them seemed to help me.&nbsp; So I took it to God.&nbsp; He showed me where I personally was spending "a little here, a little there" too much.&nbsp; So I cut that out and saw improvement.&nbsp; But there was still an extreme problem.&nbsp;

    Next He showed me how to pay my bills a bit differently than I had been.&nbsp; Again, I saw improvement in my situation but still greatly struggled.&nbsp;

    The last thing God showed me was the words that came from my mouth.&nbsp; I have seen GREAT improvement since I changed that alone.&nbsp; I bagan to give more.&nbsp; More GREAT improvement.

    Instead of begging God to meet my needs (His Word said He already had), I'd make my need known and then I would&nbsp;thank Him for meeting my needs.&nbsp; I prayed the scripture.&nbsp; Not to remind Him but to remind me.&nbsp; As I did this&nbsp;I found my faith level increasing.&nbsp;

    It's difficult to explain. . .it's kinda like, ya gotta be there to understand.&nbsp; One time I can remember getting out of the shower so distressed over the bill collecters, knowing I was obeying God in every area I knew, and just standing there with a towell over my face, weeping.&nbsp; And God showed me.&nbsp; I was curseing myself with my own words.

    Not everyone is in that situation for the same reason.&nbsp; That's where I was.&nbsp; I cried out to God, "please, show me what else I am doing wrong.&nbsp; I'm tithing, I'm giving, I'm not sinning anywhere that I know of, please show me."&nbsp; And He did.&nbsp; It was my mouth.&nbsp; Prov 18:21 "Death and life are in the power of the tongue".&nbsp;

    We can speak His Word (I'm blessed,&nbsp;By the stripes of Jesus I'm healed, I have the mind of Christ, I'm created in His image, etc)&nbsp;and bring life (to ourselves, others, our situation) or we can speak the opposite of what His Word says (I'm broke, I'm sick, I'm stupid, I'm ugly, etc), and bring death.&nbsp; &nbsp;

    Yes, there are some who go way off into the deep end with this but that should not mean that those who really need the help should not get it.&nbsp; If the faith teacher can give me info I did not have before then I welcome it.&nbsp; I don't have to receive everthing they say as absolute truth.&nbsp; I am able to study the Word for myself.&nbsp; If I struggle with one of the concepts I put it to the side and me and God pick it up later, when it's time.&nbsp; Until then it sits there.

    Anyway, that's the way it is with me.&nbsp; With each person it's different.&nbsp; But, God's Word is never different and is to be applied to any and every area we struggle with.&nbsp; God wants us WHOLE.&nbsp; What you struggle with is not the same as what I struggle with.

    Emotions are emotions.&nbsp; Some people are just plain emotional, no matter what it is.&nbsp; We just love them the way we are told to and let God take care of the details.&nbsp; He is faithful to fulfill what He's started in them.&nbsp;

    I personally, go to a "wild" church.&nbsp; Sundays are "party time".&nbsp; I'm not very demonstrative but going to this church sure builds my faith, and I love it.

    Anyway, that's all for now,

    Bye,

    God Bless,

    &nbsp;

    &nbsp;

    &nbsp;
     
  15. SpiritPsalmist

    SpiritPsalmist Heavy lean toward Messianic Supporter

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    Joe,

    Let me also add that since that weeping into the towell issue (approx 3 yrs ago) God has blessed me greatly.&nbsp; I'm not completely out of dept but I'm well on my way.&nbsp; Much more well on my way&nbsp;since I started speaking life instead of death.

    In the last year God provided the way for me to purchase a new car (new to me, 1998).&nbsp; I needed a car.&nbsp; I live in&nbsp;Kissimmee, Fl and the bus system is not that great.&nbsp; To get to work I needed a better&nbsp;car than I had and God provided the way.&nbsp;

    Also, just a few months ago, I purchased a 3-bedroom mobile home.&nbsp; The&nbsp;place I had been renting sold and I had to move.&nbsp; This&nbsp;was the&nbsp;3rd time in 4 yrs where circumstances beyond my control had made me need to move.&nbsp; That&nbsp;put's a serious dent in the finances, of which I was just barely catching up.

    Anyway, I did not need a 3-bedroom but that's what God provided.&nbsp; Initially, it was to be a 1-bedroom but circumstances that appeared upfront as bad turned and became my benefit.&nbsp; It was a newer model for less money.&nbsp; Go figure! That was God.&nbsp; Now I don't need to worry about&nbsp;having to move again until it's my choice. :D

    My place of employment loves me and pays me well.&nbsp; While others around me got&nbsp;only a 3% raise,&nbsp;I got a 14% raise.&nbsp; And right now, when I really need it, we have so much overtime available. . .&nbsp;it really is unusual.

    I thank God that He led me to people who understood a principle that I did not.&nbsp; Now I'm not only able to meet my own needs but help others meet theirs.&nbsp;

    Anyway, just wanted to add that on.&nbsp; :wave:
     
  16. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    "According to the Word the sacrificial lamb had to be spotless. Without blemish and healthy"

    This shows your inability to think about spiritual things bro. He had to be spotless SPIRITUALLY. It had nothing to do with his physical body. He was pretty unclean on the cross let me tell you. Again here you advocte that being sick is somehow sinful. It is not. Christ himself showed and preached against that.


    "Jesus died for the sins of humans, not animals. His blood was pure and spotless. "

    AGain, here you 1. take the analogy too far. Maybe you don't understand it. Should I come up with something simplier? 2. AGain here you imply that being sick or going through suffereing implies sinfulness. Christ himself preached against this idea.


    "One's fruit and teachings cannot be adequately judged without knowing that person. "

    I've dealt with many name it claim it people before. Those like you who believe that to be sick is to be sinful are just plain wrong. Christ himself said so. I don't need to know you personally to see your teaching unbiblical things.

    '
    It is not our job to pull weeds. "

    I agree, because that implies judgement. We ARE to watch out for false teachers like you that take 10 statements of truth and twist number 10 so that it perverts all the rest. God is not a meal ticket.

    "I've already clarified that faithfullness/unfaithfullness has nothing to do with sickness. But, alas, you keep on bringing it up.[/"

    Because you say that and then turn around and refute it with your own words. You say it doesn't imply unfaithfulness or sin, but then you say Christ couldn't have been sick because he had to be spotless. In order to be of "christ like" spotlessness he had to be sinless. Thus you imply and say very explictly that to be sick is to be sinful, which simply, is untrue biblically. Open your eyes to the truth.

    "ie he gives us the wisdom, energy, favour, grace etc to get wealth, whether its by someone blessing us with it "

    *sigh* two totally different things. If I give you a nickel and you go out and invest it and then manage it wisely and make millions you're not going to say, He have me millions! God gives us how to manage it, not how to make it.

    If you can show me specifically in the word of God how to (not manage) make money, I'd like to see it.

    Oh, by the way, I have a cold..am I unfaithful or more sinful?
     
  17. Andrew

    Andrew Well-Known Member

    +21
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    HJ,
    "I refuse to advocate worship meetings where finance is the exclusive topic."

    hey bro, agreed 100%. Christ crucified comes first. :) but I also think there's something wrong with the church if healing and prosperity are NEVER preached for they are part of the gospel in the sense of redemption from Deu 28's curses and Ga 3:13.

    Quaffer,

    And He did.Ê It was my mouth.Ê Prov 18:21 "Death and life are in the power of the tongue".Ê

    AMEN! and u know why too? He made us kings and priest. "Where the word of a king is, there is power." In the OT, priests hear from God but kings were the executive arm. Christ has made us both -- a royal priesthood. so we gotta watch what we say!

    Ec 8:4 Where the word of a king is, there is power: and who may say unto him, What doest thou?

    1Pe 3:10* For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile:
     
  18. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    "#217


    "I refuse to advocate worship meetings where finance is the exclusive topic."

    hey bro, agreed 100%.

    "


    *piece of sky hits me on the head* wow we agree!! LOL ;)
     
  19. Andrew

    Andrew Well-Known Member

    +21
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    Louis,

    I amended my post.

    If that were true, then for all you know, Christ could have been a spastic or the hunchback of Notredam. I wonder how such a "revelation" from the "Holy Spirit" glorifies Jesus! Also, no Jew would bring a spiritually spotless lamb for the sacrifice. How wld he know? see into the animal's heart? No it had to be physically spotless and without disease. Jesus was both physically and spiritually spotless.

    [He was pretty unclean on the cross let me tell you.]
    On the cross yes! But only there! Isa 53 says he was "marred beyond all human recognition." You dont see that in the movies made abt him. I believe that's becos he was not just carrying the world's sins but also all of man's diseases, deformities, etc. And God darkened the earth agst this ugly sight. But Jesus did it for you and I, so we can walk away free from sin and the curse of sicknesses.
     
  20. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

    +59
    Christian
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    US-Libertarian
    "If that were true, then for all you know, Christ could have been a spastic or the hunchback of Notredam. I wonder how such a "revelation" from the "Holy Spirit" glorifies Jesus! "

    I agree, but it says in the scripture he was not.

    "No it had to be physically spotless and without disease. Jesus was both physically and spiritually spotless. "

    No, you're wrong. He was spiritly spotless. There is no thing in the bible that says to be sick is to be more sinful. that is a twisting on the scripture you have made up. thanks for admitting it though by your words, "I think."

    Again, I ask you, I have a cold, does that mean I'm more sinful or less faithful then you?
     
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