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Faith alone is required for salvation & You're not under Mosaic law!

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by BrotherJJ, Mar 31, 2021.

  1. BrotherJJ

    BrotherJJ Well-Known Member

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    Ex 11:7 But against any of the children of Israel shall not a dog move his tongue, against man or beast: that ye may know how that "the LORD doth put a difference between the Nations and Israel".
    (MY NOTE: The LORD put a difference between all other 69 (Gen 10) Nations & Israel/His chosen people) Gentiles were viewed as unclean dogs, bastards, living outside of covenant seals)

    Ex 19:
    3 God, spoke to Moses saying, Thus shalt thou "say to the house of Jacob" "and tell the children of Israel";
    (NOTE: God tells Moses, say to: the house of Jacob/children of Israel! Gentiles (69 other nations) had/have NO PART in this law covenant)

    8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the Lord hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the Lord.
    (MY NOTE: When Moses gives the law to: the house of Jacob/children of Israel: They ALL AGREED, to the words the Lord had spoken. Under the new covenant one must confess Jesus as Lord & believe/place their Faith/agree in His righteous/obedient sin atoning work)

    Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
    (MY NOTE: Gentiles referred to as the Uncircumcision (vs 11) were without God, having no covenant promises & a hopeless future)

    Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves
    (MY NOTE: Gentiles aren't now & were never under the Mosaic law covenant)

    Council at Jerusalem
    Acts 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
    (MY NOTE: The letters written & sent by Christ chosen apostles. Proclaim that gentiles, are not, nor were they ever, required to be circumcised or keep Mosaic law. Quoting: WE gave NO such commandment!)

    Rom 4:15 (A) the law worketh wrath.

    (1) Israel only! Agrees (Ex 19:8) & enters into the Mosaic law covenant on Mt Sinai.

    (2) Eph 2:12, Rom 2:14 & Acts 15:24 ALL state gentiles were never under the Mosaic law covenant.

    Neither has any NT believer ever been under the Covenant made at Sinai. Written to believers: Rom 6:14 Sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

    Paul's Holy Spirit inspired writing also disagree with a, law is love, position:

    He cites the law written & engraved in stones. As the ministration of death (vs 7) & the ministration of condemnation (vs 9)

    2 Cor 3:
    6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
    (MY NOTE: Written to believers (2 Cor 1:1) The letter/law/administers death. But, the NT Holy Spirit's administration is life giving).

    7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
    (MY NOTE: The apostle calls the 10 commandments the ministration of death)

    8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

    9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
    (MY NOTE: The apostle calls the 10 commandments the ministration of condemnation)

    Gal 3:19 It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made
    (MY NOTE: Because of sin the law was added & in effect, UNTIL, Christ/the promised seed should come)

    These verses don't claim there isn't a sovereign creator God, or no right & wrong actions. Adam wasn't under Mosaic covenant laws, yet, he knowingly transgressed/sinned against God's law.

    Fundamentally, Mosaic law is just, BUT, it can't justify anyone. The law is holy, BUT, can't make anyone holy. The law is righteous, BUT, can't make anyone righteous.

    If the law can't make us holy, righteous or justified, condemns without mercy unto death, was to be preached UNTIL Christ's arrival.

    Why, are so many people tenaciously driven. To place today's NT believers under it's yoke of condemnation?

    Rom 8:1 (A) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus.

    Matt 26:28 (AMP) For this is My blood of the new covenant, which ratifies the agreement and is being poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

    Matt 26:28 (KJV) For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

    Law keeping never provided sin remission/pardon/forgiveness, water baptism never provided sin remission/pardon, repentance never provided sin remission/forgiveness, obedience never provided sin forgiveness, sabbath observance never provided sin pardon/forgiveness, tithing doesn't provide sin remission/pardon/forgiveness etc.

    Only faith in Jesus sin atoning sacrifice & resurrection can remove the sin stain from one's soul.

    1 Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
    (NOTE: Anyone that believes they can conquer their own sin nature, without Gods help is mistaken)

    Faith in Christ's righteous/obedient sin redemptive work, LEADS, to obedience & repentance

    Rom 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches "of his goodness" and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that "the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance"?
    (MY NOTE: It's thru the GOODNESS of GOD not thru OUR OWN great work of sin repentance, obedience or self-control. That we REPENT/change our thinking/course. It's salvations seal of indwelling Holy Spirit that leads us to REPENT/change our thinking outlook & direction > TOWARDS God & faith in Christ. Also see Acts 20:21).

    Rom 16:26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, ""so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience"" ""that comes from faith""
    (NOTE: Brought to obedience/repentance/godly living, thru Faith)

    Rom 1:5 "Through him we received grace" & apostleship "to call all the Gentiles to the obedience" "that comes from faith" for his name’s sake.
    (NOTE: Called to FAITH, which leads to obedience & repentance)

    Faith & Faith alone is the requirement for salvation. Repentance/obedience & good works will be the result of Faith.

    BTW: God see's our self righteous law keeping works as filthy rags (Isa 64:6).

    Salvation isn't about how great, wonderful & perfect we may think we are.

    Its about how great, wonderful, graceful, loving, righteous, obedient, forgiving & sinless perfect Christ was/is! As HE IS, so are we in this world! (1 Jn 4;17)

    All praise, glory & honor belong to our Great God & Savior, Jesus the Christ. Amen
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2021
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  2. Soyeong

    Soyeong Well-Known Member

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    God made a distinction so that Israel would serve as a light and a blessing to the nations, so rejecting the light and the blessing of God's word because He made that distinction undermines the point of the distinction.

    In Exodus 12:38, there was a mixed multitude that went up out of Egypt with them, so there were Gentiles as the foot of Sinai. In Joshua 8:33, Israel was inclusive of both the foreigner and the native born, so there have always been righteous Gentiles who have affiliated themselves with the God of Israel, who have sought by faith to repent from their sins and to learn how to walk in His ways in obedience to His law.

    While we are under the New Covenant and not the Mosaic Covenant, we are nevertheless still under the same God with the same nature and therefore the same laws for how to testify about His nature (Jeremiah 31:33). For example, God's righteous laws teach us how to testify about His righteousness, so by obeying them we are experiencing who He is and are expressing what we believe about the nature of who He is. If someone reject the laws that were given to teach us about the nature of the God of Israel, then they are rejecting the God of Israel. Jesus taught obedience to the Mosaic Law both by word and by example, so obediently submitting to obey them through faith is what we are committing to when we confess that Jesus is Lord. In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Mosaic Law is what it means to believe in what Jesus accomplished through the cross.

    In Ephesians 2:19, all of those things are no longer true in that Gentiles are no longer stranger or aliens, but are now fellow citizens of Israel along with the saints in the household of God.

    Gentiles will by nature do the things contained in the Mosaic Law. In Romans 2:13, only doers of the Mosaic Law will be justified, so only argue against obeying it if you don't want yourself and others to be justified.

    This is referring to requiring circumcision for the purpose of becoming saved, not speaking against obeying God.

    The fact that the law works wrath for those who refuse to submit to it is not a very good reason to refuse to submit to it.

    Unbelievers are required to refrain from sin even though they are under the New Covenant, so there is nothing about not being under the Mosaic Covenant that permits us to do what God has revealed to be sin through it.

    In Romans 6:14, it describes the law that we aren't under as being a law where sin had dominion over us, which does not describe the Mosaic Law, which is a law where holiness, righteousness, and goodness have dominion over us, but rather it is the law of sin where sin had dominion over us. In Romans 6:15, being under sin does not mean that we are permitted to sin, and sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), so we are still under God's law.

    In Deuteronomy 30:15-20, the Mosaic Law brings life and a blessing for obedience while it brings death and a curse for disobedience, so it is a ministry of life for those who obey it, while the fact that it is a ministry of death for those who refuse to submit to it is not a very good reason to refuse to submit to it.

    Christ did not go around telling people that the law had ended and that they needed to stop repenting, but just the opposite. The law brings us to Christ because everything in it testifies about how to grow in a relationship with him, but does not bring us to Christ so that we can reject what he taught and go back to living in sin.

    The law does not make us holy and righteous because it was never given for that purpose, but rather it is God who makes us holy and righteous and obedience to God's law is what that looks like. To say that someone is holy and righteous is to say that they are someone who does what is holy and righteous, and God's law is His instructions for how to do that (Romans 7:12).

    While it is true that there is now therefore no condemnation for those who are in Christ, it is also true that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6), so being in Christ does not remove our obligation to obey the Mosaic Law, but just the opposite.

    In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the Mosaic Law, so obedience to it is what it means to have faith in the Jesus.

    In 1 John 3:10, those who do not continue to practice righteousness in obedience to God's law are not children of God.

    In James 2:17-18, he said that faith without works is dead and that he would show his faith by his works, so doing good works is what faith looks like.

    God is gracious to us by teaching us to obey the Mosaic Law (Psalms 119:29).

    Repentance is inherently an act of faith.

    In Isaiah 64:6m it is not God speaking about how He sees us, but rather it was the people complaining about how they thought God saw them because He was not coming down and making His presence known. It wouldn't make sense to think that all throughout the Bible, God wanted His people to repent and to return to obedience to His law, and then turn around and hold those who do that in contempt by viewing our actions as filthy rags. Rather, the reality is that the righteous deeds of the saints are like fine white linen (Revelation 19:8).

    Agreed. The same is true of obeying the Mosaic Law.
     
  3. Dkh587

    Dkh587 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The new covenant is only with Israel. There is no new covenant with any other nation.

    also, faith has always been required for salvation.
     
  4. BrotherJJ

    BrotherJJ Well-Known Member

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    Posted breathed scripture disagree. Salvation is opened to all, Jew or Gentile.
     
  5. MMXX

    MMXX Well-Known Member

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    I think the way the argument goes is that while Jews and Gentiles are equally eligible for salvation, the New Covenant only applies to Jews since they were the only ones with an Old Covenant. For the Gentiles it's more like their "First Covenant". Not that I see it that way myself.
     
  6. BrotherJJ

    BrotherJJ Well-Known Member

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    True that the old covenant was 100% with the nation of Israel only.

    The new covenant is offered to every one that believeth; to the Jew first & also to the Greek (Rom 1:16).

    Glory, honor & peace to every man that works good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile (Rom 2:10)
     
  7. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    Wow you completely ignored the very next verse here.


    “Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,”
    ‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:4-5‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

    God has bestowed grace upon these people leading them to repent and thru their own stubbornness they are storing up the wrath of a God on judgement day. Are you just searching the web for verses that support your theology or are you actually reading and studying the entire chapters to get the full context of the message? Because you really quoted this verse in the exact opposite context that the message is giving.
     
  8. BrotherJJ

    BrotherJJ Well-Known Member

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    I quoted Rom 2:4 with parallel verses in Rom 1:5 & 16:26. Pointing out repentance is a grant from God resulting from one's Faith in Christ's Death & resurrection.

    I'll add a couple more here:

    Acts 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
    (MY NOTE: They received this GRANT by Faith Alone (Acts 10:44-47)

    Acts 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

    (MY NOTE: The key to this verse is found in the article "TOWARD". Repentance TOWARD God & faith TOWARD Christ. For the Jew of the time (that had a relationship with God) repent meant to turn back to the Lord your God.

    For the gentile that had NO relationship with God (Eph 2:12). Acknowledge that God IS, that you've sinned against a sovereign creator & are in need of a savior.

    Turning to God, when mixed with faith in Christ's sin payment & resurrection results in a change of actions/repentance.)
     
  9. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    But your saying that nothing is required of us. So forgive me if I’m mistaken but it sounds as if your implying that we are saved solely based on election and that God’s grace is irresistible which is incorrect.
     
  10. BrotherJJ

    BrotherJJ Well-Known Member

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    Here is a repost of what I said:

    Fundamentally, Mosaic law is just, BUT, it can't justify anyone. The law is holy, BUT, can't make anyone holy. The law is righteous, BUT, can't make anyone righteous.

    If the law can't make us holy, righteous or justified, condemns without mercy unto death, was to be preached UNTIL Christ's arrival.

    Why, are so many people tenaciously driven. To place today's NT believers under it's yoke of condemnation?

    Rom 8:1 (A) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus.

    Matt 26:28 (AMP) For this is My blood of the new covenant, which ratifies the agreement and is being poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

    Matt 26:28 (KJV) For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

    Law keeping never provided sin remission/pardon/forgiveness, water baptism never provided sin remission/pardon, repentance never provided sin remission/forgiveness, obedience never provided sin forgiveness, sabbath observance never provided sin pardon/forgiveness, tithing doesn't provide sin remission/pardon/forgiveness etc.

    Only faith in Jesus sin atoning sacrifice & resurrection can remove the sin stain from one's soul.

    1 Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
    (MY NOTE: Anyone that believes they can conquer their own sin nature, without Gods help is mistaken)

    FAITH in Christ's righteous/obedient sin redemptive work, LEADS, to obedience & repentance.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2021
  11. parousia70

    parousia70 Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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  12. Studyman

    Studyman Well-Known Member

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    I have found a fatal flaw in this popular belief, if you would be so kind as to consider the following.

    If a man lives in obedience to the Laws God gave Moses, then, in God's eyes they are perfect and HE will accept them. I can show you many, many Word's of God which say this very thing. If a man would learn obedience by the things he suffered, if a man became obedient to God unto death, this is the very definition of being perfect. Jesus was this man, HE was "Made Perfect" by walking in the "Mosaic" Law as you called it, although that is not an accurate description, it is God's Law. We are told by the Christ Himself to be Perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect.

    But men have already transgressed God's Laws. They already have SIN. So following the Law now, doesn't take this Sin away. We sinned are are on death row. Nothing we do can forgive us this transgression. Only a Pardon from a higher power can rescind this penalty. This is a True Statement that I'm fairly sure you can agree with.

    And that is what the Lamb of God does. He frees us from the Sin that is a Yoke of Bondage to us, that stops us from being Clean, that keeps us in darkness. But Jesus paid our penalty and now Now we are free to "Yield our self" to God, like the Author of our Salvation. We are FREE to "WALK" even as HE Walked. We are now free to make a better choice.

    Paul explains.

    Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth (From here on out) we should not serve sin.

    7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

    Our guilty self is gone, we are a New Man

    Eph. 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

    23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

    24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

    The Yoke of Bondage has been lifted, we are FREE to "Serve another".


    Rom. 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

    9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

    10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

    11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body,( As we did when we were held in the Bondage of Sin) that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

    13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

    You see, Paul is saying we are free now, from the Sin and deception that held us captive to the LAW of SIN, which is Death. But Jesus Freed us from this death, so now we are free to "Yield ourselves" to another.

    14 For sin (DEATH) shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, (Dead in our Sins) but under grace. (Alive).

    15 What then? shall we sin, (Transgress God's Commandments again?) because we are not under the law, (DEAD) but under grace? (Alive) God forbid. NO!!!!

    16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin (Disobedience) unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

    17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, (In Bondage to the death penalty) but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

    18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

    Now we are free from the Yoke of Bondage of spiritual Egypt, AKA Sin, having been saved from the death angel by the Blood of the Lamb. And being made whole we are instructed by the Christ Himself to "Sin no more" lest a worse thing come upon us.

    I have wondered this same thing. Why do so many people who call Jesus Lord, Lord, refuse to "Yield themselves" to God? Why do they want to place themselves back under the condemnation that Jesus gave His Own Blood to free us from? Do they not read Paul's Words?

    Why would men, who call Jesus Lord, Lord, refuse to "Yield themselves to God" after Jesus did so much to make our atonement possible? He specifically warns of this very thing.

    Matt. 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

    23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (Lawlessness)

    True, once a man has sinned, he is guilty and in need of atonement he can not provide for himself. Law breaking killed him once. But as Paul said, in Faith this man knows he is free from the bondage of sin and death, his slate clean, he is now free to "Serve the Righteousness of God". Are we then perfect? It is a process, but Jesus is there to intercede for those who Love Him and have "Yielded themselves to God" as He inspired it to be written.

    1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

    2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

    3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.(Have Yielded our self to God)

    4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments,(Have not Yielded Himself to God) is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

    5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby (By this) know we that we are in him.

    6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. (As a Servant to God's Righteousnes)


    And God have graciously provided for us all that we need to "Yield our self to Him in Righteousness", if we have Faith in His Word.

    2 Tim. 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

    17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

    1 Tim. 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

    And He has prepared for New Covenant Believers an entire BOOK of Examples written Specifically for our Admonition.

    1 Cor. 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

    5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

    6 Now these things were our (New Covenant Believers) examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

    11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our (New Covenant Believers) admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

    12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

    And we are in the New Covenant.

    And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

    And look, we all have the Oracles of God in our own homes, in our mind, so we don't have to rely on others, we can "Study" and see what HE instructs for ourselves, and we are told to do.

    Therefore!!!!

    Heb. 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

    2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

    3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.

    4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

    He has given His People all they need to Strive against Sin, so we can "Endure to the End". He even gave us His Armor to "Put On".


    I would say repentance of sin comes first, then obedience, as Paul taught both Jew and Gentile.

    Luke 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

    Acts 26:19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:

    20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they (ALL) should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

    And Jesus has freed us so we are able to Serve God, as is our reasonable service.

    Rom. 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

    2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

    Because this is the whole duty of man as the Christ inspired it to be written..

    Ecc. 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

    14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2021
  13. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Right. If the new covenant was to include the gentiles, it implies that the old covenant applied prior. Either way, the old covenant is gone. Obsolete.

    Hebrews 8:7, 13 NIV
    7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. ...
    13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
     
  14. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    @Dkh587 didn't say that salvation is not open to both Jews and gentiles.

    If you are claiming that the new covenant is with the gentiles too, that applies that the old covenant was as well. The new covenant replaces the old for those UNDER the first covenant. If so, it undermines your OP. Might want to rethink that.

    AND don't play the "God card" by claiming your post citations are inspired. ("Posted breathed scripture disagree.")

    Dkh587 said:
    The new covenant is only with Israel. There is no new covenant with any other nation.

    also, faith has always been required for salvation.
     
  15. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Actually the Abrahamic covenant of faith applies to gentiles. The Mosaic covenant was with the Israelites. So, in that sense you are correct.

    Romans 4:16 NIV
    Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all.
     
  16. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    The new covenant replaces the old. Therefore it can only apply to those under the original covenant. Gentiles were never under the law that God gave to the Israelites alone through Moses. Your own OP confirms this fact.
     
  17. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    The old covenant was the Mosaic covenant, not the Abrahamic covenant. (which is older and does apply to us gentiles) See Romans 4:16
     
  18. BrotherJJ

    BrotherJJ Well-Known Member

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    New Covenant:
    The post reads 1st to the Jew & then to the gentile.

    The Jew received the promise 1st at Acts 2:4 Pentecost, fulfilling scripture.

    Years later & Acts 10:44 it's expanded to gentiles as well, fulfilling the promise of blessing of all nations made to Abraham (Gen 18:18).
     
  19. BrotherJJ

    BrotherJJ Well-Known Member

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    I highlight > (MY NOTES) = my commentary.

    My reference to God breathed scripture. Was in reference to direct C&P from known Bibles. I attach my parsing/notes/commentary under C&P God breathed scriptures. Hope this helps. JJ
     
  20. MMXX

    MMXX Well-Known Member

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    Ah yes that's right. Not first covenant, original covenant.
     
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