Faith Alone ? Faith with works ? Faith with love ?

SANTOSO

Well-Known Member
Jul 15, 2020
2,227
1,183
47
Jakarta
✟236,770.00
Country
Indonesia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Why are many against faith alone ? Isn’t faith alone is faith in Christ alone ?

What is faith ? This is what we have heard:

So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ. -Romans 10:17

Yet, why many resist from hearing and hearing the word of Christ alone.

Are many concerned with what apostle James have said ? :

But someone will say, "You have faith and I have works." Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. -James 2:18

Isn’t faith in Christ is faith in union with Christ alone ? For this is what we have heard:

For we are His workmanship, CREATED IN Christ Jesus FOR GOOD WORKS, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. -Ephesians 2:10

To understand “showing faith by our works” is that we are God’s workmanship, created in union with Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

So, we show faith by our works that are in union with Christ BUT NOT SHOWING FAITH BY WORKS THAT ARE INDEPENDENT OF CHRIST.

IF WE SHOW OUR FAITH BY OUR WORKS THAT ARE INDEPENDENT OF CHRIST, THAT IS NOT GOD WORKING IN US.

Are you concerned with what apostle James have said ? :

Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? -James 2:21

Did not Avraham hear God’s voice to offer his son Issac on the altar ? Yes, Abraham did. So, Abraham have faith because faith comes from hearing the word of God.

So, Abraham show faith by his works by obeying what he has heard what God has spoken.

This is also what we have heard :
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but ONLY FAITH working through love. -Galatians 5:6

So, whose love is this ?
For this is what we have heard:

Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love. -1 John 4:8

Christ have spoken to us His words that we may grow in faith in union with Him that works through His love in us.

That is why we obey His voice or His words that we may keep His commandments and abide in His love.

As we have heard:
If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love. -John 15:10

So, faith in Christ alone is faith in union with Christ that we may do good works which God in His love prepared for us beforehand that we should walk in them.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Soyeong

Maria Billingsley

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Oct 7, 2018
9,574
7,772
63
Martinez
✟893,859.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Why are many against faith alone ? Isn’t faith alone is faith in Christ alone ?

What is faith ? This is what we have heard:

So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ. -Romans 10:17

Yet, why many resist from hearing and hearing the word of Christ alone.

Are many concerned with what apostle James have said ? :

But someone will say, "You have faith and I have works." Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. -James 2:18

Isn’t faith in Christ is faith in union with Christ alone ? For this is what we have heard:

For we are His workmanship, CREATED IN Christ Jesus FOR GOOD WORKS, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. -Ephesians 2:10

To understand “showing faith by our works” is that we are God’s workmanship, created in union with Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

So, we show faith by our works that are in union with Christ BUT NOT SHOWING FAITH BY WORKS THAT ARE INDEPENDENT OF CHRIST.

IF WE SHOW OUR FAITH BY OUR WORKS THAT ARE INDEPENDENT OF CHRIST, THAT IS NOT GOD WORKING IN US.

Are you concerned with what apostle James have said ? :

Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? -James 2:21

Did not Avraham hear God’s voice to offer his son Issac on the altar ? Yes, Abraham did. So, Abraham have faith because faith comes from hearing the word of God.

So, Abraham show faith by his works by obeying what he has heard what God has spoken.

This is also what we have heard :
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but ONLY FAITH working through love. -Galatians 5:6

So, whose love is this ?
For this is what we have heard:

Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love. -1 John 4:8

Christ have spoken to us His words that we may grow in faith in union with Him that works through His love in us.

That is why we obey His voice or His words that we may keep His commandments and abide in His love.

As we have heard:
If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love. -John 15:10

So, faith in Christ alone is faith in union with Christ that we may do good works which God in His love prepared for us beforehand that we should walk in them.
Faith in Christ alone regenerates us into a new being through the power of the Holy Spirit. This is why only faith is need. From there we walk with the Holy Spirit daily revealing the good fruit from our change aka works. Blessings
 
  • Like
Reactions: SANTOSO
Upvote 0

Soyeong

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2015
12,416
4,598
Hudson
✟281,625.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
Why are many against faith alone ? Isn’t faith alone is faith in Christ alone ?

What is faith ? This is what we have heard:

So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ. -Romans 10:17

Yet, why many resist from hearing and hearing the word of Christ alone.

Are many concerned with what apostle James have said ? :

But someone will say, "You have faith and I have works." Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. -James 2:18

Isn’t faith in Christ is faith in union with Christ alone ? For this is what we have heard:

For we are His workmanship, CREATED IN Christ Jesus FOR GOOD WORKS, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. -Ephesians 2:10

To understand “showing faith by our works” is that we are God’s workmanship, created in union with Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

So, we show faith by our works that are in union with Christ BUT NOT SHOWING FAITH BY WORKS THAT ARE INDEPENDENT OF CHRIST.

IF WE SHOW OUR FAITH BY OUR WORKS THAT ARE INDEPENDENT OF CHRIST, THAT IS NOT GOD WORKING IN US.

Are you concerned with what apostle James have said ? :

Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? -James 2:21

Did not Avraham hear God’s voice to offer his son Issac on the altar ? Yes, Abraham did. So, Abraham have faith because faith comes from hearing the word of God.

So, Abraham show faith by his works by obeying what he has heard what God has spoken.

This is also what we have heard :
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but ONLY FAITH working through love. -Galatians 5:6

So, whose love is this ?
For this is what we have heard:

Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love. -1 John 4:8

Christ have spoken to us His words that we may grow in faith in union with Him that works through His love in us.

That is why we obey His voice or His words that we may keep His commandments and abide in His love.

As we have heard:
If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love. -John 15:10

So, faith in Christ alone is faith in union with Christ that we may do good works which God in His love prepared for us beforehand that we should walk in them.

Luther said that we are saved by faith alone, but that faith is never alone, which is essentially saying the same thing as Romans 3:27-31 where we are saved by faith apart from works, so there are no works that we can do to earn our salvation, however, this does not abolish our need to obey God's law, but rather our faith upholds it, so our faith is never alone. While it is true that Abraham believe God, so he was justified, it is also true that Abraham believed God, so he obeyed God's command to offer Isaac, so while he was justified by faith and not by works, the same faith by which he was justified also upheld his obedience to God. The problem comes with people misunderstand saying that we are saved by faith alone as saying that we just need to mentally affirm that we believe in Jesus.
 
Upvote 0

SANTOSO

Well-Known Member
Jul 15, 2020
2,227
1,183
47
Jakarta
✟236,770.00
Country
Indonesia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Luther said that we are saved by faith alone, but that faith is never alone, which is essentially saying the same thing as Romans 3:27-31 where we are saved by faith apart from works, so there are no works that we can do to earn our salvation, however, this does not abolish our need to obey God's law, but rather our faith upholds it, so our faith is never alone. While it is true that Abraham believe God, so he was justified, it is also true that Abraham believed God, so he obeyed God's command to offer Isaac, so while he was justified by faith and not by works, the same faith by which he was justified also upheld his obedience to God. The problem comes with people misunderstand saying that we are saved by faith alone as saying that we just need to mentally affirm that we believe in Jesus.
I don’t know about Luther but I do know faith alone is only faith in union with Christ alone.
For the Lord asks us to abide in His words that we may bear fruit and bring delights to the Father.
 
Upvote 0

SANTOSO

Well-Known Member
Jul 15, 2020
2,227
1,183
47
Jakarta
✟236,770.00
Country
Indonesia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Luther said that we are saved by faith alone, but that faith is never alone, which is essentially saying the same thing as Romans 3:27-31 where we are saved by faith apart from works, so there are no works that we can do to earn our salvation, however, this does not abolish our need to obey God's law, but rather our faith upholds it, so our faith is never alone. While it is true that Abraham believe God, so he was justified, it is also true that Abraham believed God, so he obeyed God's command to offer Isaac, so while he was justified by faith and not by works, the same faith by which he was justified also upheld his obedience to God. The problem comes with people misunderstand saying that we are saved by faith alone as saying that we just need to mentally affirm that we believe in Jesus.
As we have heard :
I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I LIVE BY FAITH in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. -Galatians 2:20

If Christ lives in us, it means Christ is working in us for good works.

As we also have heard:
For we are His workmanship, created IN CHRIST JESUS for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. -Ephesians 2:10

That is why Moses have said this :

Let Your work be shown to Your servants, and Your glorious power to their children. -Psalms 90:16

Let us pray:

Thank you, Lord Jesus Christ that You works mightily in us. Remember Lord to reveal Your glorious power to our children. Amen
 
Upvote 0

JimR-OCDS

God Cannot Be Grasped, Except Through Love
Oct 28, 2008
18,341
3,284
The Kingdom of Heaven
Visit site
✟185,132.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
As I have experienced and learned.

Faith is a gift from God. Faith is God's revelation of Himself to the soul, however that may happen.

Can a person have faith without works?

Not really. For faith transforms the life of the individual and without knowing it, that person of faith will do works either consciously or unconsciously.

There is no argument anymore about faith and works.

Don't confuse faith with membership in a religion. Although faith and religion often are connected, they're not the same.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SANTOSO
Upvote 0

WanderedHome

Active Member
Jul 26, 2019
245
253
Southern US
✟35,023.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Why are many against faith alone ? Isn’t faith alone is faith in Christ alone ?

What is faith ? This is what we have heard:

So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ. -Romans 10:17

Yet, why many resist from hearing and hearing the word of Christ alone.

Are many concerned with what apostle James have said ? :

But someone will say, "You have faith and I have works." Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. -James 2:18

Isn’t faith in Christ is faith in union with Christ alone ? For this is what we have heard:

For we are His workmanship, CREATED IN Christ Jesus FOR GOOD WORKS, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. -Ephesians 2:10

To understand “showing faith by our works” is that we are God’s workmanship, created in union with Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

So, we show faith by our works that are in union with Christ BUT NOT SHOWING FAITH BY WORKS THAT ARE INDEPENDENT OF CHRIST.

IF WE SHOW OUR FAITH BY OUR WORKS THAT ARE INDEPENDENT OF CHRIST, THAT IS NOT GOD WORKING IN US.

Are you concerned with what apostle James have said ? :

Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? -James 2:21

Did not Avraham hear God’s voice to offer his son Issac on the altar ? Yes, Abraham did. So, Abraham have faith because faith comes from hearing the word of God.

So, Abraham show faith by his works by obeying what he has heard what God has spoken.

This is also what we have heard :
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but ONLY FAITH working through love. -Galatians 5:6

So, whose love is this ?
For this is what we have heard:

Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love. -1 John 4:8

Christ have spoken to us His words that we may grow in faith in union with Him that works through His love in us.

That is why we obey His voice or His words that we may keep His commandments and abide in His love.

As we have heard:
If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love. -John 15:10

So, faith in Christ alone is faith in union with Christ that we may do good works which God in His love prepared for us beforehand that we should walk in them.

I see people thinking that after they "get saved" the works they have to do is volunteer with charities, volunteer at church, go to the services, join the Bible studies, go on mission trips, and go out evangelizing, etc. I think this is wrong because anyone can do that without ever having faith in Christ. All it seems to produce is a bunch of Christians who are running around afraid they are not doing enough for God or doing enough to "prove their salvation."

As I understand the original doctrine of "Faith Alone" is that the real work that we must be about as Christians is repentance. You hate your sin, you want to change, you recognize your powerlessness without the grace of God, so you pray and ask Him to come into your life and change you into the image of Christ. At that point, according to the doctrine of "Faith Alone", you are saved. The Holy Spirit dwells in you and now the work you have to do, with His help, is to root out sin in your life and start living a holy life, set apart to God. Doing all the activities might help with that, but it is not about the activity itself, but about the fruit it is producing in you. We should be careful not to get caught up in the self-righteousness of all the ways we "serve God."
 
Upvote 0

CMDRExorcist

Theology Explorer
Supporter
Apr 13, 2011
378
187
Texas
Visit site
✟130,239.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Single
As I understand the original doctrine of "Faith Alone" is that the real work that we must be about as Christians is repentance. You hate your sin, you want to change, you recognize your powerlessness without the grace of God, so you pray and ask Him to come into your life and change you into the image of Christ.

I tend to agree with this perspective. I think that we often view works as outward physical manifestations such as volunteering in a soup kitchen or helping the disenfranchised, but there's much work to be done on the inside of a saved man. God created us all to be different and those works manifest differently based on the individual relationship with God the personality the person has been gifted. Just because there are no obvious outward works does not mean that someone is lacking salvation.
 
Upvote 0

SANTOSO

Well-Known Member
Jul 15, 2020
2,227
1,183
47
Jakarta
✟236,770.00
Country
Indonesia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
d
I see people thinking that after they "get saved" the works they have to do is volunteer with charities, volunteer at church, go to the services, join the Bible studies, go on mission trips, and go out evangelizing, etc. I think this is wrong because anyone can do that without ever having faith in Christ. All it seems to produce is a bunch of Christians who are running around afraid they are not doing enough for God or doing enough to "prove their salvation."

As I understand the original doctrine of "Faith Alone" is that the real work that we must be about as Christians is repentance. You hate your sin, you want to change, you recognize your powerlessness without the grace of God, so you pray and ask Him to come into your life and change you into the image of Christ. At that point, according to the doctrine of "Faith Alone", you are saved. The Holy Spirit dwells in you and now the work you have to do, with His help, is to root out sin in your life and start living a holy life, set apart to God. Doing all the activities might help with that, but it is not about the activity itself, but about the fruit it is producing in you. We should be careful not to get caught up in the self-righteousness of all the ways we "serve God."
Dear brother,
Faith express itself in love. Some do volunteer in charity to express their love, some volunteers at church to show their love, some build their love to one another by being in service, mission trips, and show their love toward others by evangelising.

Dear brother, don’t condescending the work of others.

These Christians are not afraid the way you say but they are just doing what the Lords have asked them to do.

They aren’t afraid that that have done much to the Lord because what they have done because they love their God and want to be pleasing to Him ; for God is our Father and we are His children.

We are not trying to prove our salvation because we know by grace we are saved, and we are thankful and blessed.

Dear brother, don’t harden your heart.
Come back to the Lord, He will abundantly pardon you.
 
Upvote 0

aiki

Regular Member
Feb 16, 2007
10,874
4,348
Winnipeg
✟236,528.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Why are many against faith alone ? Isn’t faith alone is faith in Christ alone ?

Because many want to contribute to their salvation in some way. Why? Pride. The Way of Salvation humbles us. It shows us for the weak, selfish, sinful creatures we are. And it allows us only to receive God's gift of grace and mercy, never to earn it. (Ephesians 2:8-9, 2 Timothy 1:9; Titus 3:5) Many people refuse to come to God as just the totally-impotent, totally-dependent receiver of God's saving work that they are.

What is faith ? This is what we have heard:

So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ. -Romans 10:17

This is how faith in the Gospel, in Christ, forms, but faith itself is something else. Someone has well-defined faith this way:

"Faith is believing a thing is so,
When it appears it is not so,
In order for it to be so,
Because it is so."

But someone will say, "You have faith and I have works." Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. -James 2:18

Isn’t faith in Christ is faith in union with Christ alone ? For this is what we have heard:

For we are His workmanship, CREATED IN Christ Jesus FOR GOOD WORKS, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. -Ephesians 2:10

To understand “showing faith by our works” is that we are God’s workmanship, created in union with Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

So, we show faith by our works that are in union with Christ BUT NOT SHOWING FAITH BY WORKS THAT ARE INDEPENDENT OF CHRIST.

IF WE SHOW OUR FAITH BY OUR WORKS THAT ARE INDEPENDENT OF CHRIST, THAT IS NOT GOD WORKING IN US.

James explained in chapter 2 of his letter that faith inevitably gives rise to corresponding works - if it is more than just head-belief, more than a belief only of the mind that doesn't touch the heart and thus the character of one's living. Saving faith is a faith that anticipates change as a consequence of what is believed.

If one has saving faith, good works inevitably arise from it. But what is inevitable is not, therefore, necessary. A boat is supposed to float. That's what boats do. Is a boat with a big hole in its hull that is lying on the bottom of a lake still a boat? Yes. It's a pretty useless boat, but a boat, nonetheless. We see the boat lying on the lake's bottom and we say, "Hey, look, a boat!" We would say the same if we saw the boat in dry-dock, out of the water entirely.

Inevitably, a boat will float on top of the water - if it is seaworthy, without holes or cracks in its hull that let in water, or hasn't capsized in a storm and sunk. But, even if the boat doesn't float, it is still a boat. Floating isn't necessary to being a boat even though floating is inevitable to being a boat (if the boat is not damaged).

Many Christians mistake the apostle James as saying that good works, because they are inevitable to genuine, saving, Christian faith, are, therefore, necessary to being a Christian. But this is no more true for the Christian and their good works than it is for a boat and floating. Ideally, typically, characteristically, inevitably a boat that is in good shape will float. But a boat doesn't have to float to be a boat and a Christian doesn't have to do good works to be a Christian. If Christians conflate "inevitable" and "necessary" in relation to good works, they will fall into works-salvation and legalism, embracing a Gospel that is not the true Gospel.

That is why we obey His voice or His words that we may keep His commandments and abide in His love.

Amen!

So many want to motivate the faith of Christians by fear - the craven fear of a slave before a cruel and terrible Master. "If you don't obey God, He'll cast you into hell!" these folk threaten. But to what does the fear of hell appeal? Self-preservation. Or, more precisely: Self. God isn't the center, the core object, of obedience that comes from fear, protecting oneself is! And this is why God in His word rejects fear as a motivation for walking with Him (1 John 4:16-19; 1 Corinthians 13:1-3; Matthew 22:36-38). Fear orients a person upon themselves, not upon God. A prison inmate doesn't obey the Warden because he wants to, because he loves the Warden, but only because, if he doesn't, punishment awaits him. So, the inmate obeys to protect himself from the Warden, from the Warden's punishment, not out of affection and fidelity to the Warden.

So, too, the Christian who defaults to fear as the basis for their obedience to God. They live as an inmate in the prison of God's threatening power rather than as a loving, joyful child in the kingdom of the Heavenly Father whom they love. And such fearful living disobeys the very First and Great Commandment! For, as the apostle John explained, love casts out fear (and vice versa). (1 John 4:18-19)

So, faith in Christ alone is faith in union with Christ that we may do good works which God in His love prepared for us beforehand that we should walk in them.

Keep on keeping on, brother! Thanks for the interesting post!
 
Last edited:
  • Friendly
Reactions: SANTOSO
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums