Fading white evangelicals have made a desperate end-of-life bargain with Trump

[tulc]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opin...ain-with-trump-robert-jones-column/635115001/

The evangelical alliance with Trump can be understood only in the context of these fading vital signs among white evangelicals. They are, in many ways, a community grieving its losses. After decades of equating growth with divine approval, white evangelicals are finding themselves on the losing side of demographic changes and LGBT rights, one of their founding and flagship issues.

In the 1980s, a term such as “the moral majority” had a certain plausibility. Today, such a sweeping claim would be met with a mountain of counter evidence from public opinion polls, progressive religious voices, changing laws and court decisions.

tulc(thought this was interesting)

 

[Hank77]

It's pretty obvious that they would have voted for any Republican. It had a lot to do with appointing SC justices and Roe v Wade.
The Dems. gave them no reasonable choice. They either had to vote for Trump, vote for someone who couldn't win, or not vote at all. They felt that they couldn't take the chance that Clinton would win.
I fear this will not turn out well for them. They got in bed with an extremely immoral person. Doing evil to accomplish good seldom turns out well, there is usually a price to pay.

 

[RDKirk]

Here is something long known about us Boomers: We are validated by big demographics. We went to school with big classes, always identified with being in the right group with the numbers were big. Even the counter-culture validated itself by big numbers: "When we got down to Woodstock, we were half a million strong...."

Back in the 90s, as we dealt with advancing X-Genners, this distinction was made in our management and leadership training. X-Genners weren't impressed by big numbers. A Boomer would be impressed to be told, "You'll love working with us! Our company has 100,000 employees in 15 countries!" An X-Genner would rather hear, "You'll be working in a tight-knit small group of like-minded individuals."

Unfortunately, validation by big numbers became Boomer thinking about Christianity as well, despite all that Jesus said to the contrary.

 

[ambc]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opin...ain-with-trump-robert-jones-column/635115001/

tulc(thought this was interesting)

You post that article which is basically celebrating the demographic decline of white Christians. Are you not a white Christian yourself?

 

[Shiloh Raven]

What really gets me is this caption under the picture in the article...

Televangelist Paula White compared Donald Trump to a "king" in an appearance on the evangelical program "The Jim Bakker Show." White is considered to be Trump's closest spiritual adviser.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

Another excerpt from the OP article....

But one of the most important findings of our survey is that as the country has crossed the threshold from being a majority white Christian country to a minority white Christian country, white evangelical Protestants have themselves succumbed to the prevailing winds and in turn contributed to a second wave of white Christian decline in the country. Over the past decade, white evangelical Protestants have declined from 23% to 17% of Americans.

During this same period, the proportion of religiously unaffiliated Americans has grown from 16% to 24%.

The engines of white evangelical decline are complex, but they are a combination of external factors, such as demographic change in the country as a whole, and internal factors, such as religious disaffiliation — particularly among younger adults who find themselves at odds with conservative Christian churches on issues like climate change and lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender rights. As a result, the median age of white evangelical Protestants is now 55, and the median age of religiously unaffiliated Americans is 37. While 26% of seniors (65 and older) are white evangelicals, only 8% of Americans younger than 30 claim this identity. >>>end of excerpt

I can certainly understand why young people are leaving conservative churches. I'm not exactly a young person anymore, but I can understand why they left under the circumstances mentioned in the above paragraph of the article excerpt. Shortly after I became heavily involved in social justice and political activism issues in my mid-twenties, I found myself at moral odds with conservative ideology concerning social justice issues, climate change denial, and LGBT rights and equality. Long story short, I'm no longer an evangelical conservative Christian, even after growing up in a conservative Christian home and remaining one until my mid-twenties. I'm a liberal Christian today.

 

[tulc]

You post that article which is basically celebrating the demographic decline of white Christians.

...I'm actually not sure how pointing out a fact is celebrating that fact. A fact is a fact, whether we like them or not. As for

Are you not a white Christian yourself?

I was under the impression this Scripture

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

was saying we aren't supposed to identify as a "white" Christian as well. We're supposed to be simply Christians.
tulc(sort of thought that was one of the things Christianity was supposed to be about)

 

[pat34lee]

tulc(sort of thought that was one of the things Christianity was supposed to be about)

There are many things that Christianity is supposed to
be about.

Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
gentleness, and self-control to name a few.

Why don't I see them here?
Romans 12:18

 

[RDKirk]

This is why they have a problem.

Robert E. Lee descendant resigns as pastor over racial justice comment

A descendant of Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee stepped down as pastor of a small North Carolina church this week after his comments supporting racial justice on MTV sparked a backlash.

The general's distant nephew, the Rev. Robert W. Lee IV, issued a statement saying he resigned from Bethany United Church of Christ in Winston-Salem after the congregation decided to put his tenure to a vote.

Some church members were not comfortable with Lee’s remarks during the Aug. 27 MTV Video Music Awards broadcast when he introduced the mother of Heather Heyer, who was killed in Charlottesville while protesting against white supremacy.

 

[tulc]

There are many things that Christianity is supposed to
be about.

Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
gentleness, and self-control to name a few.

Why don't I see them here?
Romans 12:18

...because the Christians in the OP gave all those up to embrace President Trump?
tulc(is just guessing of course)

 

[pat34lee]

...because the Christians in the OP gave all those up to embrace President Trump?
tulc(is just guessing of course)

And the left gave them up to hate and destroy him.

 

[tulc]

And the left gave them up to hate and destroy him.

Some may have, the majority though? We don't hate him or want to destroy him, we tend to just disagree with him and the things he does. But his supporters think that means we do. You want to know why some of them see it that way? I believe it's because they've tied themselves so tightly to President Trump and become so convinced he's "GODS MAN OF THE HOUR!!!" (tm) that to disagree with President Trump is to disagree with the Lord.
tulc(is drinking some very fine coffee right now)

 

[RDKirk]

Some may have, the majority though? We don't hate him or want to destroy him, we tend to just disagree with him and the things he does. But his supporters think that means we do. You want to know why some of them see it that way? I believe it's because they've tied themselves so tightly to President Trump and become so convinced he's "GODS MAN OF THE HOUR!!!" (tm) that to disagree with President Trump is to disagree with the Lord.
tulc(is drinking some very fine coffee right now)

And that rather belies any claims they make to "hate the sin but love the sinner." They don't appear really to believe such a thing is possible.

 

[Tallguy88]

It's just another sign of the times.

"When the Son of Man returns, will he find faith on earth"?

 

[MoonlessNight]

It's pretty obvious that they would have voted for any Republican. It had a lot to do with appointing SC justices and Roe v Wade.
The Dems. gave them no reasonable choice. They either had to vote for Trump, vote for someone who couldn't win, or not vote at all. They felt that they couldn't take the chance that Clinton would win.
I fear this will not turn out well for them. They got in bed with an extremely immoral person. Doing evil to accomplish good seldom turns out well, there is usually a price to pay.

What choice would you have suggested for them to make? As you say, they couldn't support a Hillary Clinton election, since she unashamedly several intrinsic evils (such as, as you allude to, abortion). If the real choices were to vote for Trump and have Trump as president, vote for Hillary and have Hillary as president, or vote for no one and have one of the two as president, how is their choice "not turning out well?" The only other option would seem to be to have Hillary elected president, which would have been worse.

I'm just taking the analysis as you give it to me. You say that those were the only choices and that their choices won't end well. So what should they have done?

 

[Hank77]

What choice would you have suggested for them to make?

I would suggest that one pray and then follow their conscience.

 

[MoonlessNight]

I would suggest that one pray and then follow their conscience.

I imagine that most of them did and then voted for Donald Trump.

 

[majj27]

And the left gave them up to hate and destroy him.

Nah, we just know he's a crummy president. The Bible doesn't say we shouldn't say that.

 

[Sketcher]

I'm not sure why "enthusiasm" for Trump is assumed to be true. Is there a scientific poll of white Evangelicals to see who voted for him "enthusiastically" and who voted for him "reluctantly"?

 

[FireDragon76]

This is why they have a problem.

Robert E. Lee descendant resigns as pastor over racial justice comment

A descendant of Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee stepped down as pastor of a small North Carolina church this week after his comments supporting racial justice on MTV sparked a backlash.

The general's distant nephew, the Rev. Robert W. Lee IV, issued a statement saying he resigned from Bethany United Church of Christ in Winston-Salem after the congregation decided to put his tenure to a vote.

Some church members were not comfortable with Lee’s remarks during the Aug. 27 MTV Video Music Awards broadcast when he introduced the mother of Heather Heyer, who was killed in Charlottesville while protesting against white supremacy.

That's shocking for a UCC congregation to do. Considering they are the most politically progressive of mainline churches, typically.