Facing racism by Derek Flood

mcarans

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For too many Christians, faith is subservient to politics. You can see where politics has become an idol where Christians overwhelmingly support one particular party almost like a return to the linkage of church and state power. If faith came first, you'd expect Christians to have a wider spread of political views.
 
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Aussie Pete

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For too many Christians, faith is subservient to politics. You can see where politics has become an idol where Christians overwhelmingly support one particular party almost like a return to the linkage of church and state power. If faith came first, you'd expect Christians to have a wider spread of political views.
I'm not so sure. Where I live, there are effectively two mainstream parties. Neither are especially "Christian" but one, at present, is definitely closer to Christian ideals than the other. The present Prime Minister is a practising and professing Pentecostal.
Christians have far more power than the state or any worldly authority. It would be wonderful if we exercised that instead of trusting in governments and heads of state.
 
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Aussie Pete

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Your PM prioritises loving your neighbour as yourself, loving your enemy, doing for the least of these etc.?
The PM prioritises keeping himself in a job and running the country as best he can, within the limits of democracy. He is also not about to declare the Bible hate speech or permit Christians to be imprisoned for publicly quoting the same. He's a pragmatist and a realist. This nation does not have the Christian background that the USA boasts. Being a Christian in politics is a minus here. If you are referring to his attitude towards refugees, I beg to differ. This country is the driest settled continent, arable land is extremely limited and we already have a huge percentage of overseas born citizens. I don't believe in unlimited immigration. Satan uses that to undermine the Christian culture of a nation as you've seen in the US. We have much less to undermine. But there are things like Christmas celebrations under threat and governments banning eating pork on government premises. Why? To pander to about half a percent of the population, most of whom could have gone to a nation that accepted their belief system. So far the idiotic decisions have been overturned. The rationale is not that was a bad decision, but that it might inflame anti immigrant sentiment.
 
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mcarans

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The PM prioritises keeping himself in a job and running the country as best he can, within the limits of democracy. He is also not about to declare the Bible hate speech or permit Christians to be imprisoned for publicly quoting the same. He's a pragmatist and a realist. This nation does not have the Christian background that the USA boasts. Being a Christian in politics is a minus here. If you are referring to his attitude towards refugees, I beg to differ. This country is the driest settled continent, arable land is extremely limited and we already have a huge percentage of overseas born citizens. I don't believe in unlimited immigration. Satan uses that to undermine the Christian culture of a nation as you've seen in the US. We have much less to undermine. But there are things like Christmas celebrations under threat and governments banning eating pork on government premises. Why? To pander to about half a percent of the population, most of whom could have gone to a nation that accepted their belief system. So far the idiotic decisions have been overturned. The rationale is not that was a bad decision, but that it might inflame anti immigrant sentiment.
You said one party is closer to Christian ideals. What ideals specifically?
 
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Aussie Pete

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You said one party is closer to Christian ideals. What ideals specifically?
OK, serious generalisation alert: There are many more pro-life MPs' in the Liberal party. They are also more generally pro-Israel. Liberals are less inclined to open door immigration policies, even though numbers of their MP's are migrants are children of migrants. There is less inclination to spend on welfare, but Australia spends around 30% of its budget on welfare anyway. Liberals are less inclined to attack Christianity. In general, as a Christian, I am much more comfortable with the Liberals. The alternative party would recognise Palestine as a nation, throw Israel under the bus, limit the rights of Christians to preach the gospel and possibly declare the Bible to be hate speech. Christians already have fallen foul of racial hatred legislation. There are people who would love to see Christians denied the right to say that Jesus is the only way to God. They tend not to be drawn to the Liberals.
 
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mcarans

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OK, serious generalisation alert: There are many more pro-life MPs' in the Liberal party. They are also more generally pro-Israel. Liberals are less inclined to open door immigration policies, even though numbers of their MP's are migrants are children of migrants. There is less inclination to spend on welfare, but Australia spends around 30% of its budget on welfare anyway. Liberals are less inclined to attack Christianity. In general, as a Christian, I am much more comfortable with the Liberals. The alternative party would recognise Palestine as a nation, throw Israel under the bus, limit the rights of Christians to preach the gospel and possibly declare the Bible to be hate speech. Christians already have fallen foul of racial hatred legislation. There are people who would love to see Christians denied the right to say that Jesus is the only way to God. They tend not to be drawn to the Liberals.
How many of the things you have listed involve selflessness or self sacrifice on the part of the Christian?
 
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Aussie Pete

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How many of the things you have listed involve selflessness or self sacrifice on the part of the Christian?
Governments are not Christian.What Christians do when they are not in parliament should reflect their convictions. Governments rule in the interests of all citizens, in theory if not in practice. My concern is that governments do not hinder the work of the Body of Christ. The Liberals are generally less inclined to hinder Christians. That has not always been so and it surely could change very quickly. That's why our fellowship prays regularly for the governments in Australia.
 
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mcarans

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Governments are not Christian.What Christians do when they are not in parliament should reflect their convictions. Governments rule in the interests of all citizens, in theory if not in practice. My concern is that governments do not hinder the work of the Body of Christ. The Liberals are generally less inclined to hinder Christians. That has not always been so and it surely could change very quickly. That's why our fellowship prays regularly for the governments in Australia.
The thing I'm not getting is how convictions if they are really Christ-like (and not just political) could be against the interests of all citizens. Christians in government can model, reflect and encourage values like love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control, humility, compassion, generosity, self-sacrifice etc. and refrain from things like enmities, strife, jealousy, anger, quarrels, dissensions, factions, envy, boastfulness, lying, bearing false witness etc. Unfortunately from what I have seen, Christians in government often seem to demonstrate more of the negative qualities than the positive, I would guess because power and money corrupt them.
 
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Sure, and they would be out of power the next election. The political process is toxic these days. It's not for the faint, the gentle, the caring and the truthful. Personally, I don't believe Christians should run for office. There is too much pressure to compromise.
 
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mcarans

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Sure, and they would be out of power the next election. The political process is toxic these days. It's not for the faint, the gentle, the caring and the truthful. Personally, I don't believe Christians should run for office. There is too much pressure to compromise.
I wonder if the reason politics has become toxic is because the gentle and the caring don't want to run for office creating a vicious circle where the people who do run are those that are the least gentle and caring, those that want to use their faith for their own personal gain for example.

I can understand the problem. I don't want to be a manager (in tech) because I don't want to be involved in all the politics, all the managing upwards etc. that often seems to come with the responsibility. I can imagine it is much much worse in politics.
 
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Absolutely. It's the same reason that women find it harder to gain high management positions. They generally (although it is changing) are just not as willing to trample over people to get to the top.
 
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HeffersonDavidos

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Well do you have any coloured friends? Would they attend your church? Would you attend their church?

At work, how many coloured people do you work with?

We are all suspicious of the strange/unusual so how in our churches are we working to lower barriers?
Joint services with the local coloured church?
Joint outreach with them?

You raise some good points. It is a process but one that would be beneficial if undertaken
in Biblically-based depth and earnest. Many churches don't feel any need for such
outreach. Everyone is content and comfortable in their own little silo and
community, and inbred social circle. To some extent this is a natural development.
Its what different tribes and clans do. However there is a need for such outreach
IMHO provided it is based on real, in-depth Christian connection, versus superficial
meet-and-greets. The need is increasingly pressing because there is an increasing
hostility to Christianity from the strong"PC" culture and media. There is a lot under
the lid that is not yet full blown. What is holding it back is Christianity.

Solid connections centered on core principles and doctrines (gasp!- you mean not
relativism?) and common faith traditions will do much to protect youth from corrupt
elements of that culture and media. While some religious people seem to think the
most important activity is turning out the vote for a particular politician or government,
their children are being slowly lured away by the corrupt culture from under their
very noses. Politics and politicians are not important- faith trumps that. Those
who put their confidence in the latest political "savior" are being "played" like any
other political constituency. They are just another interest bloc- useful as long
as the politician needs them, expendable or taken for granted when the ever
shifting sands of politics changes.

So how are these networks to be built in a manner where politics (whether of the left
or right wing variety) takes a distinct back seat? We already have the template- core
principles and traditional values (in the best sense). This does not require a monolithic
agenda or outlook, or a state or an elaborate hierarchy or forced sweetness and light.
There is plenty of room for variation inside a core framework. Thus a conservative white
southern preacher named Billy Graham, could find common ground with a liberal
southern preacher named Martin Luther King. To the chagrin of some "purists"- Graham
actually implemented the shocking practice of having his gospel crusades open to people
of ALL races, to sit wherever they wanted, and to mingle however they saw fit. He
rejected separate "colored" and "white" sections at a time when such was not only
custom but required by law in some places. Graham also occasionally made monetary
contributions to aid King, and there is some evidence that this may have included
bail money. King himself publicly appreciated Graham's support and indeed sent
a number of his staffers to study the admin and organizational side of Graham's
large scale crusade operations, some of which he used in his own organization.

Yet King and Graham did not always agree. Graham declined to join street marches
and such- focusing on mass evangelism, and King called for much more political
activism from those in pulpits- focusing as he did on politics. And neither King or
Graham were perfect human beings- both can be certainly criticized. Was Graham
for example too cosy with certain politicians to the detriment of his powerful
evangelism? Was King too focused on politics -neglecting his pulpit? These criticism
appear in biographies of both men. Still at one of the most challenging times in US
history this bond, based on faith, was forged. Notice both men did not have to be
paragons of perfection, and neither had to be in perfect agreement with one another
for that solid connection to work.

More challenging times are ahead with relentless attacks on Christianity and its core
principles and people in faith communities that embrace those principles. These attacks
are not only from without, but within as well, a situation the apostle Paul would have
well understood. The idea of many more joint services and joint outreach projects
that cut across racial lines is a good solid start to meet these challenges. But these
joint exercises could be substantive in nature not a "diversity" photo op. Rather than
a 2-hour quickie with a few choirs, how about a 2 day conference to study say the
rivers of scripture? What is the significance of the Red Sea, the Jordan, or the River
of Life for example? There is much in the black prophetic tradition about rivers, just
as the white prophetic side. In other words, bring people together with real meat on the
table, rather than "lite" milk-toast. Something like this would also some argue attract
more men, who want to get in-depth into the Word, not just do social service type
activity or music making. If this level is too elaborate, then a decentralized informal "neighbor to neighbor"
gatherings can also work.

Precedents? Sure- look at Act 8. The Kushite eunuch-the administrator, came with scriptures
in hand and he had tough questions. When Philip stepped up on to the chariot he had to
to bring real value to the discussion, not just pleasant platitudes, or pleasant songs.
When they both went down to the water the result was something real- not based
on "lite" gimmickry, or glib relativism. It is no surprise also that Acts records people from
Africa as being among the early converts to Christianity. For those who keep harping
bout "diversity"- "diversity" and "outreach" has been built into Christianity from the beginning.

Modern day precedents? Graham's crusade model is there, only rather than a mass operation
relying on a "celebrity" type figure, hundreds of micro-crusades in a local area - decentralizing leadership
and participation can work just as well. Other models? There are "Promise Keepers" who though attacked relentlessly in certain quarters, saw some success in bringing believers of many denominations together.
Or it could be joint project/personal testimonial formats like Athletes in action, or simply small informal
"people to people" gatherings where a church down the road is invited to a home for fellowship, prayer, study etc, as some cell or house churches do. Plenty of ways to get things going.
 
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