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Ezekiel 39.

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by PhillipLaSpino, Aug 28, 2014.

  1. Belly Rumble

    Belly Rumble Newbie

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    Just a simple answer from a simple man. If the Book of Revelation had never been written than we could debate this. However it has been written and Revelation clearly shows us that all of both chapters are post Millennium. That is my 2 cents worth.......oh crap....I don't have 2 cents.....well you will just have to trust me.
     
  2. Dave Watchman

    Dave Watchman Well-Known Member

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    This sounds like the Thomas Jefferson letter calculation. As I can recall it was the Library of Congress that was going through some of Thomas Jefferson's papers and found a letter from Isaac Newton. In the letter it was claimed that Isaac said he was working on some kind of dual fulfillment from Daniel 9. Newton thought that the 7 weeks of years, 49 actual years, also relate to the Second Coming. Newton says the numbers 49 and 434 separately speak of both the First and Second Coming, both being counted from the "going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem."

    "Know therefore and understand that from the going out of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks"

    He believed that in the future Israel would be restored as a nation and that a new official decree would be issued "to restore and build Jerusalem" again. Keep in mind that the letter had to be written in the early 1700s. All one would have to do is to watch for Jerusalem then add 1 Jubilee cycle of 49 years and voilà.

    Everybody knows about the 6 day war in 1967 when they recaptured Jerusalem, but there was no decree issued "to restore and build Jerusalem" at that time. The second decree came on April 1,1969 on Passover eve when the Knesset voted "to restore and build Jerusalem" again.

    Company Profile – General Review
    The Company for the Reconstruction and Development of the Jewish Quarter in the Old City of Jerusalem Ltd.

    (JQDC) is the only fully owned government company operating within the environs of the Old City of Jerusalem.
    The company was established in 1969, after the liberation of Jerusalem.

    The Company for the Reconstruction and Development of the Quarter


    1969+49=The Tribulation is 1335 days.
    And away we go, Giddy Up
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2014
  3. Interplanner

    Interplanner Newbie

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    WHy did Newton insert X000 years between the 7th and 8th weeks? Or between the 69th and 70th?
     
  4. Dave Watchman

    Dave Watchman Well-Known Member

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    Isaac said that the 70 weeks (490years) were completed but also spoke to His Second Coming.


    Isaac Newton:

    "The former part of the Prophecy related to the first coming of Christ, being dated to his coming as a Prophet; this being dated to his coming to be Prince or King, seems to relate to his second coming. There, the Prophet was consummate, and the most holy anointed: here, he that was anointed comes to be Prince and to reign. For Daniel's Prophecies reach to the end of the world; and there is scarce a Prophecy in the Old Testament concerning Christ, which doth not in something or other relate to his second coming."

    "This part of the Prophecy being therefore not yet fulfilled, I shall not attempt a particular interpretation of it, but content myself with observing, that as the seventy and the sixty two weeks were Jewish weeks, ending with sabbatical years; so the seven weeks are the compass of a Jubilee, and begin and end with actions proper for a Jubilee, and of the highest nature for which a Jubilee can be kept: and that since the commandment to return and to build Jerusalem, precedes the Messiah the Prince 49 years; it may perhaps come forth not from the Jews themselves, but from some other kingdom friendly to them, and precede their return from captivity, and give occasion to it."

    "Thus have we in this short Prophecy, a prediction of all the main periods relating to the coming of the Messiah; the time of his birth, that of his death, that of the rejection of the Jews, the duration of the Jewish war whereby he caused the city and sanctuary to be destroyed, and the time of his second coming: and so the interpretation here given is more full and complete and adequate to the design, than if we should restrain it to his first coming only, as Interpreters usually do. We avoid also the doing violence to the language of Daniel, by taking the seven weeks and sixty two weeks for one number. Had that been Daniel's meaning, he would have said sixty and nine weeks, and not seven weeks and sixty two weeks."

    "Personally, I cannot but believe these words concerning the end of the times. One sign of the end will be a remarkable increase in methods of getting about. Men will travel from country to country in an unprecedented manner. There may be some inventions which will enable people to travel much more quickly than they do now."
     
  5. Belly Rumble

    Belly Rumble Newbie

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    For right now, I'm still going with Hoses 6:2. AD 33 plus 2,000 years (2 Days) = 2033 AD for Jesus' Wedding Day. That would put the start of the 7 year period at 2026 AD. But as always, the sign in the heavens on September 23 2017 (Sign of Revelation chapter 12) is still very important to watch. It is easy to see if you down load the free program Stellarium.
     
  6. Dave Watchman

    Dave Watchman Well-Known Member

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    I don't really know what Hosea was talking about, you might be right and I could be wrong here. So I did a quick check into Hosea and found out that he was one of nine prophets that were sent to warn the northern ten tribes of Israel: Ahijah, Eido, Jehu, Elijah, Micaiah, Elisha, Jonah, Amos and Hosea. These guys were talking about the end times of Jeroboam, Ahab and Jezebel, not our end time. This is back before Nebuchadnezzar took Daniel into Babylon. I'm only worried about our own Great and Awesome Day of The Lord, not about Jezebel's Day of The Lord.

    I'm looking at four different things that are pointing to two different ends of a chunk of time that is approximately 1335 days in duration. Two are pointing to the start of it, two are pointing to The Last Day of it. I've never seen anything like it. A 37 day window at the beginning and about a 14 day window towards The Last Day of it, not an exact day or hour.

    People think that the Fig Tree calculation has failed because they are trying to fit a seven year tribulation into the equation. I'm afraid that 2026 or 2033 might be too far out.

    The Second Coming is not the thing to worry about, a million metric tonnes of red hot hail falling from the sky is.

    "And a third of the trees were burned up, and all green grass was burned up"

    Forty eight plus seventy still looks right on track, until we get five weeks past the third moon of our tetrad.

    I'm sorry.
     
  7. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Hi Dave, the 1948 base year won't work, 1948+70=no later than 2018. Minus the 7 years, means that the confirming of the covenant took place in 2011. Didn't happen.

    The 1967 base year is still good. Some time between now and 2030, the 7 years begin. The 7 years follow Gog/Magog, so that happens first. Then the 7 years.
     
  8. Interplanner

    Interplanner Newbie

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    All this has been nonsense since 1981 Doug. You need to go read CT and other journals about the 'mess' Lindsey created when nothing happened in 1981. It is simply not what the passages are about. They are fulfilled in the Christ event, not in a myriad of modern 'real' events.

    Like the title of this thread, all it does is spend 95% time on the OT passages about which the NT says nothing. Very poor workmanship, guys. Its not the proper handling of the Word.
     
  9. KrAZeD

    KrAZeD Newbie

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    How many prophecies and teachings are in the Old Testament? How many are in the new? How many are not covered by the new that are in the old? The difference is what matters prophetically.

    The prophecies that are unarguably completed should get used to shape how God fulfills his word. The teachings are lessons, again able to get used to show and demonstrate what God expects, and how various men have fallen and how they were picked back up.

    It is the proper handling of Gods word, reading and studying it all, both old and new. Prophecy and teachings. Though I'll concede only focusing on prophecy and not the teachings is wrong.
     
  10. Rev20

    Rev20 Partial Preterist

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    Your teaching implies we can understand the O.T. prophecies without New Covenant interpretations. That was, and is, the error of the Pharisees.

    :)
    .
     
  11. Interplanner

    Interplanner Newbie

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    Krazed,
    it's pretty hard to accept that when there are 2500 uses of the OT by the NT (meaning, ones we know the apostles were taught to use) that we still have go figure things out on our own. If there is no precedent in the NT, it's not worth the effort, and definitely not the disproportion found here (95% of effort going on those not covered, usually, Ezek 38, 39.)
     
  12. Belly Rumble

    Belly Rumble Newbie

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    Hosea 6:


    Come, let us return to the Lord;
    For He has torn, but He will heal us;
    He has stricken, but He will bind us up.
    2 After two days He will revive us;
    On the third day He will raise us up,
    That we may live in His sight.
    3 Let us know,
    Let us pursue the knowledge of the Lord.
    His going forth is established as the morning;
    He will come to us like the rain,
    Like the latter and former rain to the earth.


    He said that He would return just like they saw Him go up. I still like this chapter. This chapter is about Israel and Judah. Which is us by the way. We are just branches off of the Natural Olive Tree. AD 32 plus 2,000 years minus 7 years = 2025 Trib start......we will see......
     
  13. Belly Rumble

    Belly Rumble Newbie

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    After studying Ezekiel 38 & 39 again I now believe that they are post trib and not post millennium.
     
  14. ron4shua

    ron4shua " ... each in our own order " , Hallelu-YAH .

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    Greetings Saints , I'd like to cast my two cents in also . I've read this thread with great interest . Overlooking a little B grade bickering , a good exchange . Just one question I have , it is .

    Revelation 1:9 I, John, who also [am] your brother, and fellow-partner in the tribulation, and in the reign and endurance, of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, because of the word of God, and because of the testimony of Jesus Christ; YLT

    9 I, Yochanan, am a brother of yours and a fellow-sharer in the suffering, kingship and perseverance that come from being united with Yeshua. I had been exiled to the island called Patmos for having proclaimed the message of God and borne witness to Yeshua.
    CJB

    9 I, John, both[a] your brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was on the island that is called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. NKJV

    9 I, John, your brother and companion in the suffering and kingdom and patient endurance that are ours in Jesus, was on the island of Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus. NIV

    Revelation 1:9 I, John, your brother and companion in the suffering and kingdom and patient endurance that are ours in Jesus, was on the island of Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.

    Do you think " ... in THE tribulation ... , ... in THE suffering ... , ... THE kingdom ... , ... THE patient endurance .. " . is correctly translated ?

    Your fellow Saint & brother " IN THE TRIBULATION " , the servant ron .
     
  15. KrAZeD

    KrAZeD Newbie

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    An that's where many differ. You feel the effort is not worth it, others do. Those not covered leaves the question as to why, which leads to the 2 issues. Are they fulfilled or are they still to come.

    If their still future then their identifiers to help grasp what is still to come and happen, and provides a little more insight as to when that great event is even closer.

    I can respect those who are secure enough to just allow things to transpire and go about their regular christian lives. Though for some seeing events around them transpiring and what seems to G out of control and understanding possible events still to come can keep those people on that straight and narrow.

    While yes, certain prophecy/teachings not in the nt but in the old could just get left to the side and not affect someone's walk of faith, others including myself see all prophecy and all teachings in equal of importance. Being difficult is fine, in time the truth will get revealed unquestionably to us all.
     
  16. KrAZeD

    KrAZeD Newbie

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    I've stated several times in different threads, passages that are in the old and new create a clearer picture, and when the old and new are independent from each other context is what's used to attempt an understanding.

    Just because it's not clearly spelled out does not mean we toss it or ignore it. While we might not have the best understanding, its something we need to at a minimum pay attention to since its Gods word and does have a true purpose besides a page filler.


    The Isralites in general all had differences of opinions. Though I'm more inclined to leaning that the pharisees were a little too leanient on "the law" as being their major obstacle, as well as just flat out not understanding or choosing to believe scripture literally. Yes, Jesus showed them many things that were in scripture that they didn't see or believe, but the main issue was and still is unbelief in Gods word, which was again all sects.

    Even with the nt people still argue of passage meanings, even if it's shown in the Old Testament as well. So it's not the clarity as so much as the individuals choosing to accept and believe Gods word.
     
  17. KrAZeD

    KrAZeD Newbie

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    Good question though it leads to the main crux, is "that" tribulation the "great" tribulation or is their an actual ramped up version still to come. For few would disagree that they and we still suffer in "a" tribulation.
     
  18. Interplanner

    Interplanner Newbie

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    Krazed,
    I think you'll find that the Pharisees were crass literal, not just about Scripture, but conversation: Nic: how can a man go back into his mother's womb?

    Can you give an example of a NT person quoting an OT passage where this is in dispute? You totally lost me on that.
     
  19. KrAZeD

    KrAZeD Newbie

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    How many debates/conversations have you had involving Melchizedek, and the others not seeing your viewpoint.
     
  20. Interplanner

    Interplanner Newbie

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    Oh, I thought you meant where there was debate going on among NT people/apostles. Yes, there is plenty of debate out here far removed.

    It is far more common to find people in churches today and here simply not accepting what the NT says. For ex., BW on Rom 9:26 about including both Jews and Gentiles. Or people understanding that Isaiah is being quoted historically (relative to Paul) in Rom 11.
     
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