Extremism in Climatology

[Heissonear]

Many may not know what "climate scientists" have said in the past.

In the 1970's major scientific and climate organizations endorsed ice age concerns, which included NCAR, CRU, NAS, NASA, CIA, etc.

In the 1970's the fears of a coming ice age showed up in peer-reviewed literature, at scientific conferences, by prominent scientists and throughout the media. A few of the examples are as follows:

February, 1973: Science Digest (media): “the world’s climatologists are agreed” that we must “prepare for the next ice age.”

1971: NASA warned of human caused coming ‘ice age’.

Flashback 1971: Hansen’s climate model says ice age to occur by 2021

July 9, 1971: The Washington Post, Times Herald (media): The world could be as little as 50 or 60 years away from a disastrous new ice age, a leading atmospheric scientist predicts (Dr. S. I. Rasool of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) and Columbia University)

Flashback 1972: CRU Chief Hubert Lamb of U. of East Anglia said in an Associated Press article that Earth Would Definitely Cool Over The Next Two Centuries

1975: National Academy of Sciences (NAS) Issued Report Warning of Coming Ice Age.

May 21, 1975, New York Times (media): Scientists Ask Why World Climate Is Changing; Major Cooling May Be Ahead; Scientists Ponder Why World’s Climate Is Changing; a Major Cooling Widely Considered to Be Inevitable

Flashback 1975 New York Times (media): Climate Experts Said That Jumbo Jets Would Cool The Planet And Produce Global Famine

1964: CRU Director Hubert Lamb Predicted Little Ice Age for Britain.

1972: CRU Director Hubert Lamb of U. of East Anglia Predicted A New Ice Age: ‘We are in a definite downhill course for the next two centuries.’

1974: Office of Research and Development of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) produced a report entitled “A Study of Climatological Research as it Pertains to Intelligence Problems”: “The western world’s leading climatologists have confirmed recent reports of a detrimental global climate change. The stability of most nations is based upon a dependable source of food, but this stability will not be possible under the new (colder) climatic era. A forecast by the University of Wisconsin projects that the earth’s climate is returning to that of the neo-boreal era (little ice age) (1600- 1850) – an era of drought, famine and political unrest in the western world.

November 22, 1974 (AAP-Reuters, London) Science Documentary (media): “New ice age could be in our lifetime” “The threat of a new ice age must now stand alongside nuclear war as a likely source of wholesale death and misery for mankind.” “Present international cooperation in meteorology was a hopeful sign that man might be able to alter the weather pattern in some way and meet the challenge of the ice.”

1974: Global Cooling To Kill One Billion People. ‘Dr. Reid Bryson, a U. of Wisconsin climatologist, fears that climatic changes (cooling) now in progress will eventually affect the whole human population – ‘like a billion people dying,’

1975: World Meteorological Organization (WMO): Global Cooling Causes More Extreme Weather

1977 book “The Weather Conspiracy (media): The Coming of the New Ice Age” – CIA Feared Global Cooling – Excerpt: In the early 1970s, top CIA thinkers concluded that changing (cooling) weather was “perhaps the greatest single challenge that America will face in coming years”. As a result they ordered several studies of the world’s climate, the likely changes to come and their probably effect on America and the rest of the world. The studies conclude that the world is entering a difficult period…

August 8, 1974: New York Times (media): “Climate Changes Endanger World’s Food Output,” Excerpt: A recent meeting of climate experts in Bonn, West Germany, produced the UNANIMOUS conclusion that the (cooling) change in global weather patterns pose a severe threat to agriculture that could lead to major crop failures and mass starvation.

January 25, 1975: Science News National Academy of Sciences (NAS) Report on Global Climate Change: “We may be approaching the end of a major interglacial cycle, with the approach of a full-blown 10,000-year ice age.”

1975: Walter Orr Roberts of the National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR): The Earth may have entered a new “little ice age”. There are strong signs that these recent climate disasters were not random deviations from the usual weather, but instead signals of the emergence of a new normal for world climates.

August 14, 1975: New York Times (media): “many signs that the Earth may be heading for another ice age.”

December 10, 1976: Science Magazine (media): heading “toward extensive Northern Hemisphere glaciation.”

1976 Book (media): “The Cooling: Has the Next Ice Age Already Begun” By Lowell Ponte – Excerpt: “This cooling has already killed hundreds of thousands of people. If it continues and no strong action is taken, it will cause world famine, world chaos and world war, and this could all come about before the year 2000.”

Climate Extremism exists today: through news and printed media, international and national political groups, scientific organizations, and climate scientists.

CO2 is not a pollutant. Nor is CO2 the control knob to control earth's global atmospheric temperature.

Science is based on accurate, repeatable experimentations and observations. Extremism is based on the over promotion of speculations and conjectures. The past history of the "ice age is coming" shows what many can overly state from very limited data.

Extremism continues to be live and well today in Climatology. Why people jump on the bandwagon and resist to get off is socially and psychologically related to "group thinking", a problem in every age.

Where the Spirit of the Lord is there is liberty, (II Corinthians 3:17) even in learning scientific matters.

.

 

[selfinflikted]

Question for OP: Is CO2 a greenhouse gas?

 

[abysmul]

 

[juvenissun]

Many may not know what "climate scientists" have said in the past.

In the 1970's major scientific and climate organizations endorsed ice age concerns, which included NCAR, CRU, NAS, NASA, CIA, etc.

In the 1970's the fears of a coming ice age showed up in peer-reviewed literature, at scientific conferences, by prominent scientists and throughout the media. A few of the examples are as follows:



Climate Extremism exists today: through news and printed media, international and national political groups, scientific organizations, and climate scientists.

CO2 is not a pollutant. Nor is CO2 the control knob to control earth's global atmospheric temperature.

Science is based on accurate, repeatable experimentations and observations. Extremism is based on the over promotion of speculations and conjectures. The past history of the "ice age is coming" shows what many can overly state from very limited data.

Extremism continues to be live and well today in Climatology. Why people jump on the bandwagon and resist to get off is socially and psychologically related to "group thinking", a problem in every age.

Where the Spirit of the Lord is there is liberty, (II Corinthians 3:17) even in learning scientific matters.

.

Christian scientists should know better: Scientific research seldom gives truth.
It is also interesting to carefully reflect: If so, what should a Christian scientist learn by science?

If most of the past climate reports are wrong, then how or what should a Christian meteorologist do in his research?

 

[Heissonear]

Question for OP: Is CO2 a greenhouse gas?

The Pacific Ocean alone at the equator spans half of the earth's surface. 70% of earth's surface is water. Millions of tons of water is evaporated every day.

Is water a pollutant?

Is evaporated water a GHG?

Do not the gyre in every ocean basin take warm equator water towards the poles to release heat?

Do not the atmosphere gyre "cells" do the same, even producing subtropical and polar jet streams in combination with the Coriolis Effect?

The complexity, integration, and first order magnitude of natural thermodynamic heat transfer dynamics must be THE MAJORITY of the CLIMATE EQUATION. Enormous heat transfer processes have been going on for millenniums before we factor in ~150 ppm additional CO2 in the atmosphere on our climate observations.

When and how do people get on to "extremism bandwagons" about atmospheric CO2 causing CATASTROPHIC MANMADE GLOBAL WARMING? By leaving out the natural kinetic, mechanical, convection, and radiation energy transfer systems the earth's temperature is governed by!

Without balance then hype and mental derived events can come about. And have come about!!!
.

 

[selfinflikted]

So the answer to my question is... ?

 

[juvenissun]

The Pacific Ocean alone at the equator spans half of the earth's surface. 70% of earth's surface is water. Millions of tons of water is evaporated every day.

Is water a pollutant?

Is evaporated water a GHG?

Do not the gyre in every ocean basin take warm equator water towards the poles to release heat?

Do not the atmosphere gyre "cells" do the same, even producing subtropical and polar jet streams in combination with the Coriolis Effect?

The complexity, integration, and first order magnitude of natural thermodynamic heat transfer dynamics must be THE MAJORITY of the CLIMATE EQUATION. Enormous heat transfer processes have been going on for millenniums before we factor in ~150 ppm additional CO2 in the atmosphere on our climate observations.

When and how do people get on to "extremism bandwagons" about atmospheric CO2 causing CATASTROPHIC MANMADE GLOBAL WARMING? By leaving out the natural kinetic, mechanical, convection, and radiation energy transfer systems the earth's temperature is governed by!

Without balance then hype and mental derived events can come about. And have come about!!!
.

Good point. Thanks.

So, is the increase on the trace amount of CO2 or even CH4 NOT important and can be neglected? (like the MnO2% in a magma does not really matter, but is only an indicator?) In particular, the rate of that tiny CO2 increase is so slow.

 

[Non sequitur]

Many may not know what "climate scientists" have said in the past.

In the 1970's major scientific and climate organizations endorsed ice age concerns, which included NCAR, CRU, NAS, NASA, CIA, etc.

In the 1970's the fears of a coming ice age showed up in peer-reviewed literature, at scientific conferences, by prominent scientists and throughout the media. A few of the examples are as follows:

...

I see a lot of "could" and "may be" words, and type words, used.

I should note, at least it's not as definitive as the Second Coming (which has yet to happen)... which no Christian seems to think is extremism.

Can we use the same logic there?

 

[selfinflikted]

I see a lot of "could" and "may be" words, and type words, used.

I should note, at least it's not as definitive as the Second Coming (which has yet to happen)... which no Christian seems to think is extremism.

Can we use the same logic there?

Don't be silly. The Bible says there will be a second coming, so that would make it Truth™.

 

[juvenissun]

I see a lot of "could" and "may be" words, and type words, used.

I should note, at least it's not as definitive as the Second Coming (which has yet to happen)... which no Christian seems to think is extremism.

Can we use the same logic there?

You demonstrated that a logician can not be a scientist. You totally missed the point.

 

[TLK Valentine]

You demonstrated that a logician can not be a scientist. You totally missed the point.

Actually, he made a point -- which you are now trying to avoid.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

Question for OP: Is CO2 a greenhouse gas?

According to the climate fear mongers, yes, CO2 is a greenhouse gas. It must be controlled, regulated and carefully rationed.

Of course, CO2 is also what plants 'breathe'. Without CO2, plants die. Plants as in 'crops'. So 'controlling' CO2 results in quashing plant (crop) growth.

Just so you know, Self, the climate fear mongers also claim water vapor - the stuff that evaporates off the oceans - is a greenhouse gas. It doesn't get as much press as the climate fear mongers haven't figured a way to tax it yet.

Just between you and me, Self; I think of the climate fear mongers in about the same way I think of YEC proponents. Good intentions, no actual knowledge; pain in a private place.

 

[Non sequitur]

You demonstrated that a logician can not be a scientist. You totally missed the point.

I thought the point was "extremism is based on the over promotion of speculations and conjectures", "many can overly state from very limited data" and "why people jump on the bandwagon and resist to get off is socially and psychologically related to 'group thinking', a problem in every age."

Was it not that over promotion or speculations and conjectures -overly stated from vary limited data- and the resistance to get off the bandwagon that is socially and psychologically related to "group thinking" is Christianity?

I mean religion.

I mean extremism.

 

[juvenissun]

I thought the point was "extremism is based on the over promotion of speculations and conjectures", "many can overly state from very limited data" and "why people jump on the bandwagon and resist to get off is socially and psychologically related to 'group thinking', a problem in every age."

Was it not that over promotion or speculations and conjectures -overly stated from vary limited data- and the resistance to get off the bandwagon that is socially and psychologically related to "group thinking" is Christianity?

I mean religion.

I mean extremism.

You have no point is science. You completely overlooked the main issue. I doubt you even know what it is.

 

[Loudmouth]

The Pacific Ocean alone at the equator spans half of the earth's surface. 70% of earth's surface is water. Millions of tons of water is evaporated every day.

Is water a pollutant?

Is evaporated water a GHG?

Do not the gyre in every ocean basin take warm equator water towards the poles to release heat?

Do not the atmosphere gyre "cells" do the same, even producing subtropical and polar jet streams in combination with the Coriolis Effect?

The complexity, integration, and first order magnitude of natural thermodynamic heat transfer dynamics must be THE MAJORITY of the CLIMATE EQUATION. Enormous heat transfer processes have been going on for millenniums before we factor in ~150 ppm additional CO2 in the atmosphere on our climate observations.

When and how do people get on to "extremism bandwagons" about atmospheric CO2 causing CATASTROPHIC MANMADE GLOBAL WARMING? By leaving out the natural kinetic, mechanical, convection, and radiation energy transfer systems the earth's temperature is governed by!

Without balance then hype and mental derived events can come about. And have come about!!!
.

Notice that you can't even answer the simple questions.

Is carbon dioxide a greenhouse gas?

What is the greenhouse effect?

 

[Non sequitur]

You have no point is science. You completely overlooked the main issue. I doubt you even know what it is.

Invalidating the whole of something, because it's possible and seemly vague predictions haven't yet happened?

 

[Loudmouth]

Good point. Thanks.

So, is the increase on the trace amount of CO2 or even CH4 NOT important and can be neglected? (like the MnO2% in a magma does not really matter, but is only an indicator?) In particular, the rate of that tiny CO2 increase is so slow.

A 30% increase in 150 years is both large and quick.

 

[Non sequitur]

You have no point is science. You completely overlooked the main issue. I doubt you even know what it is.

Wait, I got it.

Don't trust words written from supposedly authoritative sources?

 

[fargonic]

Many may not know what "climate scientists" have said in the past.

OK here's what I've found:

Flashback 1971: Hansen’s climate model says ice age to occur by 2021:

James Hansen has never made any ice age predictions. This is based on a paper by Rasool cited in Investors Business Daily in 1971. Investors Business Daily stated

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Aiding Rasool's research was a 'computer program developed by Dr. James Hansen'." which isn't the same as saying that Hansen predicted another ice age.[/FONT]​

July 9, 1971: The Washington Post, Times Herald (media): The world could be as little as 50 or 60 years away from a disastrous new ice age, a leading atmospheric scientist predicts (Dr. S. I. Rasool of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) and Columbia University)

Flashback 1972: CRU Chief Hubert Lamb of U. of East Anglia said in an Associated Press article that Earth Would Definitely Cool Over The Next Two Centuries

1975: National Academy of Sciences (NAS) Issued Report Warning of Coming Ice Age.

Apparently in 1975 the NAS stated this conclusion:

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"…we do not have a good quantitative understanding of our [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]climate[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] machine and what determines its course. Without the fundamental understanding, it does not seem possible to predict climate…"[/FONT]​

It should also be noted that in the middle 1970's the mid-century cooling was just ending. Since the middle 1970's our understanding of climate has increased and this mid-century cooling has been hypothesized to be due to human pollution (sulfate aerosols) which DO tend to have a negative forcing on the climate.

Also in the early 1970's Milankovich Theory was being better understood.

I don't think anyone would rely on 40 year old understanding over more recent understanding which has been built up in the intervening 40 years.

 

[selfinflikted]

According to the climate fear mongers, yes, CO2 is a greenhouse gas. It must be controlled, regulated and carefully rationed.

Of course, CO2 is also what plants 'breathe'. Without CO2, plants die. Plants as in 'crops'. So 'controlling' CO2 results in quashing plant (crop) growth.

Just so you know, Self, the climate fear mongers also claim water vapor - the stuff that evaporates off the oceans - is a greenhouse gas. It doesn't get as much press as the climate fear mongers haven't figured a way to tax it yet.

Just between you and me, Self; I think of the climate fear mongers in about the same way I think of YEC proponents. Good intentions, no actual knowledge; pain in a private place.

You've qualified my question to the OP with "According to climate fear mongers..." I'm asking if YOU (actually, I was asking the OP) think that CO2 is a greenhouse gas.