Extreme gun control positions

[Radagast]

.

 

[Gigimo]

Your comment on doctors is ridiculous.

Ridiculous but true, quite a few people die here every year from misdiagnosis and wrong prescription medications. Last article I read puts the figure somewhere around a quarter million each year right behind cancer and heart disease, gun deaths are way down the list.

 

[Radagast]

quite a few people die here every year from misdiagnosis and wrong prescription medications

Definitely too much of that in the USA. But 250,000 iatrogenic deaths? I doubt it very much, notwithstanding some famous guesswork by Makary and Daniel (not that anyone really knows, since there are no good statistics on it).

Side note: if a patient dies because they stopped taking their prescription medication, I don't think you can fairly say that the doctor "killed" the patient, even though it represents a failure of the "medical system" as a whole.

 

[Gigimo]

That's nice. As a gun owner I am not trying to ban guns. Perhaps you could focus on the arguments being presented? If, as you claim, these other areas are problematic should we not pursue a similar approach to harm reduction with firearms?

Well when you figure out a way to fix the person then you'll have figured out a way to fix the problem, more restrictive gun laws are failing and always will. They aren't even doing the required background checks now so what makes you think more paperwork/laws will fix the issue?

On top of that the person fix needs to be done in such a way that it doesn't infringe on the rights of responsible and prospective gun owners. Not some silliness applied willy nilly like the last "fix" to our Healthcare system that negatively effects everyone.

 

[Gigimo]

Definitely too much of that in the USA. But 250,000 iatrogenic deaths? I doubt it very much (not that anyone really knows, since there are no good statistics on it).

It is what it is and the people can thank the politicians they vote for for creating the mess. Problem is there are too many voters who can't see that and keep going out and voting a strict party ballot for the same party everytime. They expect the people who created the mess to fix the mess and that isn't going to happen they aren't smart enough.

 

[Radagast]

It is what it is and the people can thank the politicians they vote for for creating the mess.

Well, not quite. The problems with the healthcare system in the US are complex, and have multiple causes.

And isn't all this off-topic for this thread?

 

[durangodawood]

Well, not quite. The problems with the healthcare system in the US are complex, and have multiple causes.

And isn't all this off-topic for this thread?

Memo: whatever causes the most deaths is the one and only topic permitted in the forum.

Now you've got the memo.

 

[Belk]

Well when you figure out a way to fix the person then you'll have figured out a way to fix the problem, more restrictive gun laws are failing and always will. They aren't even doing the required background checks now so what makes you think more paperwork/laws will fix the issue?

On top of that the person fix needs to be done in such a way that it doesn't infringe on the rights of responsible and prospective gun owners. Not some silliness applied willy nilly like the last "fix" to our Healthcare system that negatively effects everyone.

Very well, present your data on how you know gun laws will always fail please. Specifically I would like to know why harm reduction models that have worked in both the automotive and airline industries will not be effective.

 

[expos4ever]

Very well, present your data on how you know gun laws will always fail please. Specifically I would like to know why harm reduction models that have worked in both the automotive and airline industries will not be effective.

Good point. We need to look more deeply and not simply make guesses at what can or cannot be achieved.

What about Australia? Didn’t they radically strengthen gun control a while back and didn’t violent death decline?

 

[expos4ever]

Ridiculous but true, quite a few people die here every year from misdiagnosis and wrong prescription medications. Last article I read puts the figure somewhere around a quarter million each year right behind cancer and heart disease, gun deaths are way down the list.

Oh come on! The doctor thing is a massive red herring. First of all, I suggest it is OBVIOUS that, mistakes notwithstanding, we are better off with doctors than without. It is at best unclear whether guns are helpful and, at worst, a bane.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I don't think anyone should be able to own a gun except for me.

 

[Radagast]

What about Australia? Didn’t they radically strengthen gun control a while back and didn’t violent death decline?

We introduced quite strict gun laws in 1996. They had no effect on total violent deaths. They probably didn't even have any effect on just gun deaths, because the gun death rate was already falling (but this is debated: see FactCheck Q&A: did government gun buybacks reduce the number of gun deaths in Australia?).

The overwhelming majority of our violent crime does not use guns anyway. Knives are a much bigger problem, which is why we have also introduced extremely tough knife restrictions, like banning certain types of knife and banning the sale of all knives to under-16s (those restrictions don't seem to have worked terribly well).

 

[Gigimo]

Well, not quite. The problems with the healthcare system in the US are complex, and have multiple causes.

And isn't all this off-topic for this thread?

Yeah kinda sorta but inconvenient information is always that way.

 

[expos4ever]

I don't think anyone should be able to own a gun except for me.

Need to protect your “precious bodily fluids”, eh?

 

[Gigimo]

Oh come on! The doctor thing is a massive red herring. First of all, I suggest it is OBVIOUS that, mistakes notwithstanding, we are better off with doctors than without. It is at best unclear whether guns are helpful and, at worst, a bane.

Should I have mentioned abortion instead?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Need to protect your “precious bodily fluids”, eh?

Lol the most insidious commie plot ever hatched.

 

[Gigimo]

Very well, present your data on how you know gun laws will always fail please.

You are aware that the current NICS systems flaws are due to lack of diligence by state and federal government employees don't you??

Maybe if they fixed those first we could see how well the current system would work vs claiming we need more laws that would be overseen by those same inept government officials. Just a thought...

 

[Belk]

You are aware that the current NICS systems flaws are due to lack of diligence by state and federal government employees don't you??

Maybe if they fixed those first we could see how well the current system would work vs claiming we need more laws that would be overseen by those same inept government officials. Just a thought...

That does not answer my request. Do you or do you not have data?

 

[chuckpeterson]

It's not the type of weapon that is the issue, it's where and when you have them.

I want---

[1] background checks (prevents criminals from buying)

[2] seven (7) day waiting period before the gun store can give you the weapon. (giving the person time to cool off if the purchase is based on anger)

[3] provide a valid home address

[4] illegal to carry a firearm in public places

Any objections-?
-

 

[Speedwell]

It's not the type of weapon that is the issue, it's where and when you have them.

I want---

[1] background checks (prevents criminals from buying)

[2] seven (7) day waiting period before the gun store can give you the weapon. (giving the person time to cool off if the purchase is based on anger)

[3] provide a valid home address

[4] illegal to carry a firearm in public places

Any objections-?
-

Registered ownership and liability insurance. There is nothing in the Second Amendment which rules it out.