Exposure to conspiracy theories correlates with unethical behavior

[NeedyFollower]

To paraphrase a popular aphorism, I would suggest that music is in the ear of the beholder. If music was somehow 'out there' for us to appreciate, it would be hard to account for the sometimes stark differences in music across cultures, and for its developments over time. We can create new kinds of music and learn to appreciate what doesn't sound musical on first hearing. This is not to say that we don't take inspiration from natural sounds, or that we can't describe some of them as musical.

This implies that creatures that don't have language are not alive - or that you have redefined 'language' in some unspecified way. Perhaps you misinterpreted what Wilson said - do you have a relevant quote?

I would say that language has enabled us to make multiple definitions of life, none of which are entirely satisfactory. Belief in God is not necessary, or, I would argue, even useful, for constructing definitions of life.

Regarding the belief in God being necessary ..and this seems to be one of the hang up's with Dawkins ..why belief is so important to God ....it was impossible to navigate when the earth was perceived to be the center of the universe . Likewise , it is impossible to navigate when we make man the center of the universe . God does not need me to believe in Him no more than I need my children to believe the sign that says " Do not jump off this 20 story building because gravity actually exist and your unbelief will cause your death . " So , music exist whether we be tone deaf or not . Art exist whether we be visually impaired or not . And gravity exist whether I believe it or not . None of those things are affected by my unbelief . Life exist ...trends continue ...and maybe some will have enough humility to see and receive life or not get in the life boat until it is scientifically demonstrated who provided the life boat .

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Actually I have read a number of evolutionist ..Darwin, Sloan , Dawkins , etc. and I believe a better communication would be to say that many of these would rather seem to indicate that communication is necessary for the propagation or the survival of the species . And that was not related to a specific quote but rather my own interpretation of many statements of understanding . And while I may be misinterpreting the thoughts they are trying to convey, I can see that this is potentially true whether our communication ( or language ) is verbal or nonverbal . Regarding life ..I do not know if plants communicate not being one but I am aware that non human's do communicate.

It's true of a small subset of life on Earth. Communication is not essential to asexual reproducers, and although plants can communicate, in general they don't need to communicate to stay alive and reproduce (unless you consider pollination a form of communication) - and many plants can reproduce asexually too.

There are, I believe certain principals that give credence to principals I read and observe ....for example ...life and death is in the power of the tongue . Communities of believers ( or unbelievers ) propagate their existence through words . ( Although some utilize rituals. )
Regarding Sloan ...he speaks of Darwin and another colleague searching for fossils ( troglobites ) and not finding any , Darwin noticed the boulders and massive stones all around him and realized that glaciers had deposited these during the ice age . Having a frame of reference for what he was seeing allowed him to see . ( The frame of reference was "the ice age. " ) Likewise , without a frame of reference , we often can not understand what we see . To potentially understand what we we do not understand , we often use theorems ...such as " If x plus Y equals then" ..... and so forth . It seems to me anyway , that many very brilliant people refuse to do what I call the " If God " ..If God , then . So without God , there is no God ..No frame of reference despite the boulders of evidence everywhere and also in prophetic scriptures.

I have no idea what you're trying to say here. Try to remember that we are not all familiar with your personal semantics and cultural milieu...

'If God...' then what? what predictive or explanatory power does accepting that conditional give you?

What do you mean by 'No frame of reference despite the boulders of evidence everywhere'?

...despite everything we do which has purpose , there is no purpose .

I don't agree that everything we do is done with purpose, but purpose is a human concept; we have a strong tendency to interpret events in the world in terms of sentient agency, e.g. intent, which is understandable when dealing with sentient creatures, but otherwise is generally misleading (it's thought to be an evolutionary trait, 'Hyperactive Agency Detection').

We impose a sense of purpose on our lives and the world in general. Dan Dennet calls this attribution the 'Intentional Stance', where we talk as if a mind is involved, e.g. "The weather was determined to stop our enjoyment", "The car refused to start this morning", "Events are conspiring against me". There are casual turns of phrase, but it can cause or betray subtle causal misunderstandings, e.g. "The hard shell evolved (in order) to protect the soft underbody".

Even the scriptures allude to a conspiracy but it does seem to be trending that way ...( The great falling away or apostasy which I believe started two thousand years ago but has truly become great in our time . ) And the writing that says " If our gospel be hidden , it is hidden to those who perish , who the god of this world has blinded their hearts and their minds . " There seems to be a bit of evidence for this ....but only " If " because if no " if" then no then . No reason .

Sorry, I can't make any sense of that... religious belief is declining in many Western countries, but not everywhere; I'm not aware of any relevant conspiracies or conspiracy theories - should I be?

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Regarding the belief in God being necessary ..and this seems to be one of the hang up's with Dawkins ..why belief is so important to God ....it was impossible to navigate when the earth was perceived to be the center of the universe . Likewise , it is impossible to navigate when we make man the center of the universe . God does not need me to believe in Him no more than I need my children to believe the sign that says " Do not jump off this 20 story building because gravity actually exist and your unbelief will cause your death . "

Not sure what you're trying to say here...

So , music exist whether we be tone deaf or not . Art exist whether we be visually impaired or not . And gravity exist whether I believe it or not . None of those things are affected by my unbelief . Life exist ...trends continue

The concepts or ideas of music and art exist whether any particular individual can experience them or not, but may not necessarily have meaning for that individual. They are human constructs - artists and musicians have played with the meaning of the concepts for years through self-referential and meta-statements, e.g. Duchamp's 'readymades', or Cage's 'Four thirty-three' (is it art? is it music? it's a matter of opinion).

I'd class gravity differently, as it's an essential property of spacetime that we can't help but experience, rather than a cultural construct.

...maybe some will have enough humility to see and receive life or not get in the life boat until it is scientifically demonstrated who provided the life boat .

If that's some kind of preaching or apologetics, this really isn't the place for it.

 

[NeedyFollower]

It's true of a small subset of life on Earth. Communication is not essential to asexual reproducers, and although plants can communicate, in general they don't need to communicate to stay alive and reproduce (unless you consider pollination a form of communication) - and many plants can reproduce asexually too.


I have no idea what you're trying to say here. Try to remember that we are not all familiar with your personal semantics and cultural milieu...

'If God...' then what? what predictive or explanatory power does accepting that conditional give you?

What do you mean by 'No frame of reference despite the boulders of evidence everywhere'?

I don't agree that everything we do is done with purpose, but purpose is a human concept; we have a strong tendency to interpret events in the world in terms of sentient agency, e.g. intent, which is understandable when dealing with sentient creatures, but otherwise is generally misleading (it's thought to be an evolutionary trait, 'Hyperactive Agency Detection').

We impose a sense of purpose on our lives and the world in general. Dan Dennet calls this attribution the 'Intentional Stance', where we talk as if a mind is involved, e.g. "The weather was determined to stop our enjoyment", "The car refused to start this morning", "Events are conspiring against me". There are casual turns of phrase, but it can cause or betray subtle causal misunderstandings, e.g. "The hard shell evolved (in order) to protect the soft underbody".

Sorry, I can't make any sense of that... religious belief is declining in many Western countries, but not everywhere; I'm not aware of any relevant conspiracies or conspiracy theories - should I be?

Well I will be the first to say that this is without question is a circular argument though I do not suppose that makes my argument untrue . The frame of reference to faith is belief . In other words ...as unfair as this is from a reasoning standpoint , if someone cannot see , they cannot see . If someone does not understand , it is because they can not understand . If they would they could . There are many things done and have been done in the name of belief but particularly those of the christian faith which contradicts their own statements of belief and demonstration of love . ( Now for the conspiracy theory part . ) You would have to read lots of history and scripture to see if this may potentially be the case . An acquaintance of mine was involved in military intelligence ....the double agent was the worst kind of threat ...often giving lots of information that was in fact true but mixing in lies after gaining confidence . According to scripture , the apostle Paul said that grievous wolves would enter the flock drawing the sheep after them . And our enemy ( satan ...the adversary in Hebrew) cloaks himself as an angel of light ...that is why an atheist is not a threat to my faith.
I would trust that as an atheist on a christian forum you have done a certain amount of research on the history of religions and possibly christainity . You will be aware that even in the hebrew faith , opposition , apostacy and persecution most always came from believers . Up until modern times ( France , Communist Russia , China , North Korea ) ..persecution came from the zealously devout .

Of course religious belief is declining ..It was forecast in 2nd Timothy chapter 3 . ( By the way , this is describing believers . ) Faith , devotion and love is taught and encouraged and nurtured ( faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God . ) Ironically though , faith is for the humble . ( the proud can not be taught . ) And as I said earlier ..our increased education has made us very proud ... and a bit blind towards trends . Because unbelief does not provide a frame of reference in which to spot spiritual trends .

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Well I will be the first to say that this is without question is a circular argument though I do not suppose that makes my argument untrue . The frame of reference to faith is belief . In other words ...as unfair as this is from a reasoning standpoint , if someone cannot see , they cannot see . If someone does not understand , it is because they can not understand . If they would they could . There are many things done and have been done in the name of belief but particularly those of the christian faith which contradicts their own statements of belief and demonstration of love . ( Now for the conspiracy theory part . ) You would have to read lots of history and scripture to see if this may potentially be the case . An acquaintance of mine was involved in military intelligence ....the double agent was the worst kind of threat ...often giving lots of information that was in fact true but mixing in lies after gaining confidence . According to scripture , the apostle Paul said that grievous wolves would enter the flock drawing the sheep after them . And our enemy ( satan ...the adversary in Hebrew) cloaks himself as an angel of light ...that is why an atheist is not a threat to my faith.
I would trust that as an atheist on a christian forum you have done a certain amount of research on the history of religions and possibly christainity . You will be aware that even in the hebrew faith , opposition , apostacy and persecution most always came from believers . Up until modern times ( France , Communist Russia , China , North Korea ) ..persecution came from the zealously devout .

Of course religious belief is declining ..It was forecast in 2nd Timothy chapter 3 . ( By the way , this is describing believers . ) Faith , devotion and love is taught and encouraged and nurtured ( faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God . ) Ironically though , faith is for the humble . ( the proud can not be taught . ) And as I said earlier ..our increased education has made us very proud ... and a bit blind towards trends . Because unbelief does not provide a frame of reference in which to spot spiritual trends .

OK; you believe because you believe... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[NeedyFollower]

OK; you believe because you believe... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Well almost ...and by the way ..I owe you an apology regarding the post that you said was "preachey and apologetic " . I am sorry . I was wrong to attempt to put that on you ...it did not seem very kind to me . Now regarding Belief ..I do of course believe what I believe ( otherwise I would be someone who does not believe what I believe ) ...but I think I have a foundation and many , many foundations for that belief ...and I am of the opinion that belief and faith are similar but not exact synonyms. And while this may not make sense to you , I will try to explain . If you see a glove ...you know exactly what it is and if you had never seen a glove , I could probably describe it and explain it's uses and you could get a visual for it . However , if you were from a planet where no one had hands , you could see a glove and have no context for it ...nor could I describe it to you provided I was also from that same planet ..Now if I was from the "people have hands" planet ...I might have a better shot at it ..so it is with belief .
I saw a passage that was a bit of a "Rosetta stone" for me ...I was doing a study on the meaning of names in Hebrew . Most names meant something other than just a moniker ...I was reading in an old King James Bible and saw an obvious error in Acts Chapter 7 :45 . The translators translated the name Joshua as Jesus ...And whereas you may forgotten your lessons from a christian school , the passage concerned the handing off of the "mission" from Moses to Joshua . And you probably know this already but Jesus is the english spelling of Joshua . Their name means the same The significance of that ...for me anyways ...is that just as Moses brought the children of Israel up to the promised land ...It was left for Joshua to take them in . Just as it was written ..The law came by Moses but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. This was an aha moment unless the Jews were in a conspiracy with christians much later. It was a type or shadow and potentially prophetic . ( And of course I believe in prophecies ...) and I understand cause and effect ...having hit a ball before . ...and I hit it on purpose with purpose .

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Well almost ...and by the way ..I owe you an apology regarding the post that you said was "preachey and apologetic " . I am sorry . I was wrong to attempt to put that on you ...it did not seem very kind to me .

I don't think that was me - and I did a quick search and can't find that phrase in this thread at all... so, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Now regarding Belief ..I do of course believe what I believe ( otherwise I would be someone who does not believe what I believe ) ...but I think I have a foundation and many , many foundations for that belief ...and I am of the opinion that belief and faith are similar but not exact synonyms. And while this may not make sense to you , I will try to explain . If you see a glove ...you know exactly what it is and if you had never seen a glove , I could probably describe it and explain it's uses and you could get a visual for it . However , if you were from a planet where no one had hands , you could see a glove and have no context for it ...nor could I describe it to you provided I was also from that same planet ..Now if I was from the "people have hands" planet ...I might have a better shot at it ..so it is with belief .
I saw a passage that was a bit of a "Rosetta stone" for me ...I was doing a study on the meaning of names in Hebrew . Most names meant something other than just a moniker ...I was reading in an old King James Bible and saw an obvious error in Acts Chapter 7 :45 . The translators translated the name Joshua as Jesus ...And whereas you may forgotten your lessons from a christian school , the passage concerned the handing off of the "mission" from Moses to Joshua . And you probably know this already but Jesus is the english spelling of Joshua . Their name means the same The significance of that ...for me anyways ...is that just as Moses brought the children of Israel up to the promised land ...It was left for Joshua to take them in . Just as it was written ..The law came by Moses but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. This was an aha moment unless the Jews were in a conspiracy with christians much later. It was a type or shadow and potentially prophetic . ( And of course I believe in prophecies ...) and I understand cause and effect ...having hit a ball before . ...and I hit it on purpose with purpose .

OK, so a seemingly trivial translation error sparked a deeper understanding of the potential roles and relationships of those characters in the greater Bible story?

That kind of thing is not unusual - a trivial event triggering a sudden realisation or consolidation of ideas. It can become problematic if the triggering event itself is taken to be part of a teleological sequence, e.g. circularly taken as a 'sign' of the veracity of the realisation it triggers. Mild forms are just superstition, more severe forms (I had a friend who experienced this) can be a sign of disordered thinking (in his case, schizophrenia).

 

[NeedyFollower]

I don't think that was me - and I did a quick search and can't find that phrase in this thread at all... so, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


OK, so a seemingly trivial translation error sparked a deeper understanding of the potential roles and relationships of those characters in the greater Bible story?

That kind of thing is not unusual - a trivial event triggering a sudden realisation or consolidation of ideas. It can become problematic if the triggering event itself is taken to be part of a teleological sequence, e.g. circularly taken as a 'sign' of the veracity of the realisation it triggers. Mild forms are just superstition, more severe forms (I had a friend who experienced this) can be a sign of disordered thinking (in his case, schizophrenia).

Well yes ...although ..for me anyway ..there was not just one aha! moment but I understood many things from my decision to understand that names had meaning. This may seem obvious to you but I had never done much "thinking " other than as regarding business in which I was pretty good . But thinking things like words are but vehicles to deliver concepts. I know that sounds elementary to you and indeed it is but as it relates to religion and the christian religion in particular ...words and definitions are critical ..( In the beginning was the Word ( Logo ) which I never understood to mean reason or purpose ( despite having been in marketing , advertising and branding of all things ! )
Regarding superstition and schizophrenia , there are innumerable examples of very devout but ( in my opinion ) delusional individuals ..I also study religious cults though I am sure the first believers of Jesus were by definition what we would call a cult . ( All of Greek belonged to the cult of Dianna so a cult can be many people . ) Not sure how old you are or if it made the news in England but the Waco Texas situation with David Koresh ..the branch Davidians , was history repeating itself ..There was a militant branch of the anabaptist shortly after the reformation which did almost the exact same thing with sadly the same outcome in Munster ..you may be familiar with Jan Van Leiden ? So , I try on the " Am I being delusional " garb from time to time and as far as I am aware ..I do not think so . ( Of course the problem with delusion is one does not know they are of course . ) In America , we keep doing something called " Electing a President " with the understanding that He ( or she ) and their party with "fix" it . ( Despite the fact that we can not agree what fixed is and despite a long line of able men who were not able to fix anything either . ( Of course my definition of fixed is the Kingdom of God which I would say we are trending to towards more ungodliness ...not to be confused with atheism or unbelief . ) So , I think there is a great deal of delusion but whereas some forms of evolution would say that the organism would continually improve via the mechanism of the survival of the fittest , I look for the destruction of man and then a resurrected earth . ( In other words ..unfixable but recreate-able .) Is not optimism with out specific details a form of delusion ? ( We'll figure this out ...it will get better ...something will happen ..the sun will come out tomorrow and so forth . ) Maybe Polly-Anna-ish is a better word .

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

... But thinking things like words are but vehicles to deliver concepts. I know that sounds elementary to you and indeed it is but as it relates to religion and the christian religion in particular ...words and definitions are critical ..( In the beginning was the Word ( Logo ) which I never understood to mean reason or purpose ( despite having been in marketing , advertising and branding of all things ! )

I think it's from the Ancient Greek forms of rhetoric: ethos - argument from authority or character, logos - argument from reason (divine reason in biblical terms), pathos - argument from emotion.

Regarding superstition and schizophrenia , there are innumerable examples of very devout but ( in my opinion ) delusional individuals ..I also study religious cults though I am sure the first believers of Jesus were by definition what we would call a cult . ( All of Greek belonged to the cult of Dianna so a cult can be many people . ) Not sure how old you are or if it made the news in England but the Waco Texas situation with David Koresh ..the branch Davidians , was history repeating itself ..There was a militant branch of the anabaptist shortly after the reformation which did almost the exact same thing with sadly the same outcome in Munster ..you may be familiar with Jan Van Leiden ? So , I try on the " Am I being delusional " garb from time to time and as far as I am aware ..I do not think so . ( Of course the problem with delusion is one does not know they are of course . )

Sure, I'm familiar with those examples. My point was the general one that assigning special significance to the trigger event (often a simple coincidence) should raise flags.

So , I think there is a great deal of delusion but whereas some forms of evolution would say that the organism would continually improve via the mechanism of the survival of the fittest , I look for the destruction of man and then a resurrected earth.

'Improve' is a value-laden word - in the context of evolution 'adapt' is more appropriate. As for the destruction of man, be careful what you wish for. Resurrection is classic wishful thinking.

( In other words ..unfixable but recreate-able .) Is not optimism with out specific details a form of delusion ? ( We'll figure this out ...it will get better ...something will happen ..the sun will come out tomorrow and so forth . ) Maybe Polly-Anna-ish is a better word .

That's more a cognitive bias than a delusion, but it too can end in tears when reality catches up...

 

[zippy2006]

Mild forms are just superstition, more severe forms (I had a friend who experienced this) can be a sign of disordered thinking (in his case, schizophrenia).

There are negative cases, but I would argue that the simplest "got it!" moments up to major paradigmatic breakthroughs are cases of the same. The spectrum is basically from the child's realization about how multiplication works or how naming/language works all the way up to breakthroughs such as Copernicus' or Einstein's. Synthetic, "right brain" intuitive reasoning and breakthroughs are a pretty essential part of our intellectual heritage.

 

[TasteForTruth]

In a first study, the findings indicated that people who believed in conspiracy theories were more accepting of everyday crime, such as trying to claim for replacement items, refunds or compensation from a shop when they were not entitled to do so.

In a second study, exposure to conspiracy theories made people more likely to intend to engage in everyday crime in the future. The researchers found that this tendency was directly linked to an individual's feeling of a lack of social cohesion or shared values, known as 'anomie'.

The second study is very interesting in that it shows that just exposure to conspiracy theories can prime people towards more antisocial attitudes.

Interesting indeed. And good reasons for the products of elected officials in representative governments to be subject to open scrutiny by their respective citizenries within reasonable periods of time, relative to their being produced.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

There are negative cases, but I would argue that the simplest "got it!" moments up to major paradigmatic breakthroughs are cases of the same. The spectrum is basically from the child's realization about how multiplication works or how naming/language works all the way up to breakthroughs such as Copernicus' or Einstein's.

Synthetic, "right brain" intuitive reasoning and breakthroughs are a pretty essential part of our intellectual heritage.

Yes, it happens quite a lot, with varying degrees of import; I was just suggesting that assigning teleological significance to the triggering event should raise a flag.

 

[NeedyFollower]

I think it's from the Ancient Greek forms of rhetoric: ethos - argument from authority or character, logos - argument from reason (divine reason in biblical terms), pathos - argument from emotion.

Yes ...definitions are critically important if there is such a thing as importance. It would be difficult to find anyone who did not find at least something ( eating ) , ( existence ) , etc. important . But why is anything important ? I think it odd that we "do " anything without an expectation of a result if there was no reason and yet ...many would say there is no reason or minimally they would say that there does not necessarily have to be a reason but our daily lives "appear to testify against that .

Sure, I'm familiar with those examples. My point was the general one that assigning special significance to the trigger event (often a simple coincidence) should raise flags.

This is true provided there are such things as coincidences which of course we do not know . Seeing a recipe for cookies and tasting the results once could be a coincidence . But seeing that same recipe and each time a cookie is the result , is again , maybe a coincidence but at some point one has to say ..." Huh ...each time in history this has occurred , this has been the result ."
As I understand it , some of the people who survived the tsunami at Bandi Achi had heard stories from old timers which had been passed down and recognized that the water going out was a sign of disaster and they immediately ran to high ground . They had heard of the recipe .

'Improve' is a value-laden word - in the context of evolution 'adapt' is more appropriate. As for the destruction of man, be careful what you wish for. Resurrection is classic wishful thinking.

Yes , Improve is a value-laden word ...it would appear that asexual reproduction would have been much easier but that is not what we have . It seems an emotionless organism would have less conflict ...just cold and calculating ( though I guess people do not really calculate or do they ? )
Regarding the destruction of man ...I do not wish any harm on my enemies nor on anyone nor would I hope for that . I do hope for what I believe to be an improvement of man . And it is not wishful thinking ..it is a hope with a foundation built on many writings which have proved themselves to be insightful, instructional and validated by archaeology although they are much maligned . ( Cuneiform tablets ..discovery of Nineveh ...Hittites ...destruction of Jerusalem ..Babylon , etc. And these writings have often been maligned ironically enough because of the actions of people who profess to hold to them ....and this in itself was prophesied and a form of history repeating itself .
So rather than a trigger event ...I see a continual repetition which has ended not well in the past .

People such as Daniel and Jeremiah , Amos , Nahum and others would possibly today be called analyst . " This is what happened in the past , these were the conditions and this was the consequences . " And of course their advice was " Turn Around " . ( We would say repent . ) And saying that would be a demonstration of caring . But why care ? Caring is just a vestige of an evolutionary trait which served man in a distant past but we are much too smart to care now .

That's more a cognitive bias than a delusion, but it too can end in tears when reality catches up...

Why tears ?

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

... why is anything important ? I think it odd that we "do " anything without an expectation of a result if there was no reason and yet ...many would say there is no reason or minimally they would say that there does not necessarily have to be a reason but our daily lives "appear to testify against that .

I think there's always a reason, but that we're often unaware of it. Our world gives every appearance of being deterministic, at least at macro scales.

This is true provided there are such things as coincidences which of course we do not know . Seeing a recipe for cookies and tasting the results once could be a coincidence . But seeing that same recipe and each time a cookie is the result , is again , maybe a coincidence but at some point one has to say ..." Huh ...each time in history this has occurred , this has been the result ."
As I understand it , some of the people who survived the tsunami at Bandi Achi had heard stories from old timers which had been passed down and recognized that the water going out was a sign of disaster and they immediately ran to high ground . They had heard of the recipe .

OK... I was only using coincidence as an example of a trigger for the kind of realisation mentioned earlier.

...it would appear that asexual reproduction would have been much easier but that is not what we have . It seems an emotionless organism would have less conflict ...just cold and calculating...

I don't think that follows. Without prosocial emotions such as empathy, sympathy, love, trust, friendship, kindness, etc., there might well be more conflict. Not sure how asexual reproduction is relevant.

Regarding the destruction of man ...I do not wish any harm on my enemies nor on anyone nor would I hope for that .

"I look for the destruction of man..."; destruction seems to inevitably entail harm, whatever follows.

I do hope for what I believe to be an improvement of man . And it is not wishful thinking ..it is a hope with a foundation built on many writings which have proved themselves to be insightful, instructional and validated by archaeology although they are much maligned . ( Cuneiform tablets ..discovery of Nineveh ...Hittites ...destruction of Jerusalem ..Babylon , etc. And these writings have often been maligned ironically enough because of the actions of people who profess to hold to them ....and this in itself was prophesied and a form of history repeating itself .
So rather than a trigger event ...I see a continual repetition which has ended not well in the past .

Are you saying the translation error you say you saw in Acts Chapter 7 :45 was not a trigger event?

... why care ? Caring is just a vestige of an evolutionary trait which served man in a distant past but we are much too smart to care now .

I assume that's sarcasm, given that so much philosophical thought, from Plato to Rawls, has been, and still is, devoted to discovering what caring really means and how best to do it.

Why tears ?

If, or when, events turn out to be much worse than anticipated, it can be a much larger disappointment for the over-optimistic.

p.s. please use the 'quote' facility to separate quotes from responses; it's so much easier and less confusing to follow.

 

[Gregory95]

T

In a first study, the findings indicated that people who believed in conspiracy theories were more accepting of everyday crime, such as trying to claim for replacement items, refunds or compensation from a shop when they were not entitled to do so.

In a second study, exposure to conspiracy theories made people more likely to intend to engage in everyday crime in the future. The researchers found that this tendency was directly linked to an individual's feeling of a lack of social cohesion or shared values, known as 'anomie'.

The second study is very interesting in that it shows that just exposure to conspiracy theories can prime people towards more antisocial attitudes.

This is mind blowing I love looking into conspiracies and seeing if there is any truth in it perhaps the study favored non Christians?

 

[NeedyFollower]

I think there's always a reason, but that we're often unaware of it. Our world gives every appearance of being deterministic, at least at macro scales.

Yes ...many things happen and the outcome is centuries later ..for example , anti-antisemitism was hatched long before Hitler ..and that is an easy example .

OK... I was only using coincidence as an example of a trigger for the kind of realisation mentioned earlier.

I don't think that follows. Without prosocial emotions such as empathy, sympathy, love, trust, friendship, kindness, etc., there might well be more conflict. Not sure how asexual reproduction is relevant.

Just wanted to make the point that the unseen things have value and in my point of view are eternal .

"I look for the destruction of man..."; destruction seems to inevitably entail harm, whatever follows.

Unless man is recreated in a better image .

Are you saying the translation error you say you saw in Acts Chapter 7 :45 was not a trigger event?

No ....it was a discovery I made after being "awakened " to care . I was "awakened" to understand that I should be raising my own children and teaching them to care verses flying around the world to make money and " Be somebody " ( as the society defines somebody ) No ..I had many understandings that prior to caring were hid from me ...My perspective changed when I was shown that I loved myself ...a narcissist .

Until I cared about these things , I could care less for a Bible . Until they became important , they were not . Until someone understands , they can't . Opinion , point of view , perspective all have to do with seeing differently ....turning around ..That was both what Jesus and John the Baptist and the apostles taught ....turn around ..change your view ...otherwise , you can not see otherwise ( obviously. )

I assume that's sarcasm, given that so much philosophical thought, from Plato to Rawls, has been, and still is, devoted to discovering what caring really means and how best to do it.

If, or when, events turn out to be much worse than anticipated, it can be a much larger disappointment for the over-optimistic.

p.s. please use the 'quote' facility to separate quotes from responses; it's so much easier and less confusing to follow.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

I think there's always a reason, but that we're often unaware of it. Our world gives every appearance of being deterministic, at least at macro scales.

Yes ...many things happen and the outcome is centuries later ..for example , anti-antisemitism was hatched long before Hitler ..and that is an easy example .

OK... I was only using coincidence as an example of a trigger for the kind of realisation mentioned earlier.

I don't think that follows. Without prosocial emotions such as empathy, sympathy, love, trust, friendship, kindness, etc., there might well be more conflict. Not sure how asexual reproduction is relevant.

Just wanted to make the point that the unseen things have value and in my point of view are eternal .

"I look for the destruction of man..."; destruction seems to inevitably entail harm, whatever follows.

Unless man is recreated in a better image .

Are you saying the translation error you say you saw in Acts Chapter 7 :45 was not a trigger event?

No ....it was a discovery I made after being "awakened " to care . I was "awakened" to understand that I should be raising my own children and teaching them to care verses flying around the world to make money and " Be somebody " ( as the society defines somebody ) No ..I had many understandings that prior to caring were hid from me ...My perspective changed when I was shown that I loved myself ...a narcissist .

Until I cared about these things , I could care less for a Bible . Until they became important , they were not . Until someone understands , they can't . Opinion , point of view , perspective all have to do with seeing differently ....turning around ..That was both what Jesus and John the Baptist and the apostles taught ....turn around ..change your view ...otherwise , you can not see otherwise ( obviously. )

I assume that's sarcasm, given that so much philosophical thought, from Plato to Rawls, has been, and still is, devoted to discovering what caring really means and how best to do it.

If, or when, events turn out to be much worse than anticipated, it can be a much larger disappointment for the over-optimistic.

To repeat: Please use the 'quote' facility to separate quotes from responses; it's so much easier and less confusing to follow.

 

[NeedyFollower]

To repeat: Please use the 'quote' facility to separate quotes from responses; it's so much easier and less confusing to follow.

I apologize. I have tried to use the quote in the past and it seemed I did not do well .

Regarding triggers ..it seems that there have many people who experienced an initial "aha" moment . Jesus told one of his disciples , Peter .." When you are converted, strengthen your brethren. " Personally I believe Peter received his "aha" moment after he denied Christ three times and then looked at the Lord and saw forgiveness and love. Saul who became Paul received his "aha" moment on the road to damascus when Christ chose an enemy to be his ambassador. Zacchaeus received his "aha" moment when Jesus said to come down from the sycamore tree for Jesus was coming to have dinner with him ..a notorious sinner . ( The world's shortest sermon ...come down , I'm coming to eat with you . ) And unfortunately , many never receive an " aha" moment and become preachers and leaders of religion ...and to quote what we understand to be the words of Jesus ..You encompass land and sea to make proselytes and when they are made , you make them two fold more the child of hell than you are .

On a separate note ...as far as you are aware , do atheist seek wisdom and how would you differentiate between wisdom and knowledge ? I am a bit familiar with Voltaire , Hume , Descartes , Plato and Socrates . Did you in the past read proverbs or any of the Bible ? ..For example , my people go into captivity for lack of knowledge . To me anyway , that would seem true ..People get enslaved ( corralled ) into groups by media and get stirred to anger and hatred . ( I see this happening in the USA from both the left and the right . )

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

...as far as you are aware , do atheist seek wisdom and how would you differentiate between wisdom and knowledge ?

Atheists are just people who don't believe in a god or gods - they're as varied as people who don't play basketball or don't collect stamps. Some seek wisdom and some don't, much like believers.

I'm inclined to think that knowledge is the understanding of information and wisdom is the ability (or knowledge) to use knowledge effectively for good (in a sense it's knowledge about the application of knowledge).

I am a bit familiar with Voltaire , Hume , Descartes , Plato and Socrates . Did you in the past read proverbs or any of the Bible ? ..For example , my people go into captivity for lack of knowledge . To me anyway , that would seem true ..People get enslaved ( corralled ) into groups by media and get stirred to anger and hatred . ( I see this happening in the USA from both the left and the right . )

Having grown up in a Christian environment and gone to Christian schools, I have heard plenty of proverbs and read a fair bit of the Bible. I can't say I got on particularly well with the Bible - very much a curate's egg.

I'm more at home with the philosophers and scientists.

 

[dad]

The concepts or ideas of music and art exist whether any particular individual can experience them or not, but may not necessarily have meaning for that individual. They are human constructs...

Says you Perhaps music is from God. He created Satan with musical abilities and instruments. The bible talks about angels singing before creation. People were advanced in music right out of the garden of Eden. There is no evidence music is invented by man.