Experience with prayer?

[Martin Moe]

I am not a believer in any religion. In my opinion, based on what I know through science, reason, and observation of humanity, religions were and are created by humans. I also know that many, if not most, Christians (to pick a religion) have a sincere, actual Belief, that their religious heritage and their Bible is really true, the entire text, the “Gospel truth”. Although many profess belief in the essence of their Bible they also hold somewhat in abeyance some of biblical texts and stories that they feel may have been “adjusted” through whatever agency, to provide an understanding of “universal truths” through language and terms that could be understood in ancient times. But one thing pretty much all religions have in common is the practice of prayer, in forms both ritual and personal. Adherents engage in this practice quite often. I’ve tried it, you know, a "what’s this all about experiment", and I have found nothing there. Nothing external or internal, just mental meanderings. So I wonder, what do serious, convicted religious people experience when praying that cuts through the cultural stew of human existence and cultures and supports a belief in a supernatural being?

 

[2X4]

I am not a believer in any religion. In my opinion, based on what I know through science, reason, and observation of humanity, religions were and are created by humans. I also know that many, if not most, Christians (to pick a religion) have a sincere, actual Belief, that their religious heritage and their Bible is really true, the entire text, the “Gospel truth”. Although many profess belief in the essence of their Bible they also hold somewhat in abeyance some of biblical texts and stories that they feel may have been “adjusted” through whatever agency, to provide an understanding of “universal truths” through language and terms that could be understood in ancient times. But one thing pretty much all religions have in common is the practice of prayer, in forms both ritual and personal. Adherents engage in this practice quite often. I’ve tried it, you know, a "what’s this all about experiment", and I have found nothing there. Nothing external or internal, just mental meanderings. So I wonder, what do serious, convicted religious people experience when praying that cuts through the cultural stew of human existence and cultures and supports a belief in a supernatural being?

Most of the time it's just pagans showing how godly they are.

Matthew 6
5: "And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by men. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward.
6: But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you.
7: "And in praying do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do; for they think that they will be heard for their many words.
8: Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
9: Pray then like this: Our Father who art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

 

[Ken Behrens]

You may well be praying in your own way, and not even realize it. You do not need to believe in God for Him to exist. Just because we have words that you do not have, to describe God and what we know of Him, does not change the reality that you too are created with goodness inside, and a tendency to use it wrongly. Mental meanderings that put you in touch with goodness inside yourself are an elementary type of prayer.

The difference is that us religious people pursue the desire to be the best we can be, and have found that God has ways of helping us. Without believing in such things, you cannot embrace the better methods of prayer.

Although 2x4 sounds really cynical, he is just observing that not every person who says he follows Jesus really does so. This is also why you see so many that do not appear to be beyond the mental meandering stage.

 

[2X4]

You may well be praying in your own way, and not even realize it. You do not need to believe in God for Him to exist. Just because we have words that you do not have, to describe God and what we know of Him, does not change the reality that you too are created with goodness inside, and a tendency to use it wrongly. Mental meanderings that put you in touch with goodness inside yourself are an elementary type of prayer.

The difference is that us religious people pursue the desire to be the best we can be, and have found that God has ways of helping us. Without believing in such things, you cannot embrace the better methods of prayer.

Although 2x4 sounds really cynical, he is just observing that not every person who says he follows Jesus really does so. This is also why you see so many that do not appear to be beyond the mental meandering stage.

Many worship the dead servants but a few of us are alive in Christ today and know exactly who Jesus was and why God used him.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

. . . So I wonder, what do serious, convicted religious people experience when praying that cuts through the cultural stew of human existence and cultures and supports a belief in a supernatural being?

I suggest you pray about that. And mention to God you want to have some demonstration from Him about His hearing you and caring about you. Wait for His answer. There may be a time delay as a test. Feel free to remain skeptical without evidence.

 

[Ken Behrens]

Many worship the dead servants but a few of us are alive in Christ today and know exactly who Jesus was and why God used him.

And I trust will use you again.

 

[YouAreAwesome]

I am not a believer in any religion. In my opinion, based on what I know through science, reason, and observation of humanity, religions were and are created by humans. I also know that many, if not most, Christians (to pick a religion) have a sincere, actual Belief, that their religious heritage and their Bible is really true, the entire text, the “Gospel truth”. Although many profess belief in the essence of their Bible they also hold somewhat in abeyance some of biblical texts and stories that they feel may have been “adjusted” through whatever agency, to provide an understanding of “universal truths” through language and terms that could be understood in ancient times. But one thing pretty much all religions have in common is the practice of prayer, in forms both ritual and personal. Adherents engage in this practice quite often. I’ve tried it, you know, a "what’s this all about experiment", and I have found nothing there. Nothing external or internal, just mental meanderings. So I wonder, what do serious, convicted religious people experience when praying that cuts through the cultural stew of human existence and cultures and supports a belief in a supernatural being?

The first experience will be unique to you, a peace beyond your experience thus far, without logic you will still know He has come to you in love. You will know He is true and that you are not deceiving yourself but leaving the deception behind. It's inner peace and a calm warmth.

 

[crossnote]

Religious people have NO access to God...none, zilch, nada.
Our only access is through the shed blood of Jesus Christ upon the forgiveness of our sins. He is the WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE, and NO man comes to the Father except through Jesus. (John 14:6)

 

[YouAreAwesome]

Religious people have NO access to God...none, zilch, nada.
Our only access is through the shed blood of Jesus Christ upon the forgiveness of our sins. He is the WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE, and NO man comes to the Father except through Jesus. (John 14:6)

If certain people have no access to God, how does God call them into Himself?

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Martin Moe]

This is interesting and informative, but what I was looking for, and maybe it doesn’t exist or is so diffuse that it can’t be described, is what it is that prayer provides that cements the certainty of the existence of a personal and caring God in the mind of the believer? One can look at the complexity of life, the uniqueness and capability of the human species, the unimaginable vastness of the universe, and the relatively recent acquisition of the knowledge that a seemingly solid wood table is mostly open space, and think and believe that, “gee, there must be a God, and the fact that I, and humanity through the ages can even imagine that He is there, must be proof that He is there”. And maybe that is enough for some (maybe most) people to buy into the existence of a supernatural world, and apparent but unprovable communications from entities in that world;, but that is not enough for those of us that require something more than wonder at the atomic structure of a table that allows a cup to sit on it without falling through it. There has to be for those that question, a clear, unambiguous, and real connection with a supernatural entity in order to establish a certainty of its existence. And it would seem that the most personal connection would be through prayer, a connection through the ephemeral electrical thought processes of the brain with the electrical structure of electrons, protons, neutrons and subatomic particles that compose matter and that may interact with substance beyond our knowledge of solid matter, if it exists. But although such a conduit may exist, contact is not extended to all of humanity. Thus my interest in what happens during the experience of prayer.

 

[crossnote]

If certain people have no access to God, how does God call them into Himself?

He calls them to Himself through the Gospel,e.g....
Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
(Mat 11:28)

 

[crossnote]

This is interesting and informative, but what I was looking for, and maybe it doesn’t exist or is so diffuse that it can’t be described, is what it is that prayer provides that cements the certainty of the existence of a personal and caring God in the mind of the believer? One can look at the complexity of life, the uniqueness and capability of the human species, the unimaginable vastness of the universe, and the relatively recent acquisition of the knowledge that a seemingly solid wood table is mostly open space, and think and believe that, “gee, there must be a God, and the fact that I, and humanity through the ages can even imagine that He is there, must be proof that He is there”. And maybe that is enough for some (maybe most) people to buy into the existence of a supernatural world, and apparent but unprovable communications from entities in that world;, but that is not enough for those of us that require something more than wonder at the atomic structure of a table that allows a cup to sit on it without falling through it. There has to be for those that question, a clear, unambiguous, and real connection with a supernatural entity in order to establish a certainty of its existence. And it would seem that the most personal connection would be through prayer, a connection through the ephemeral electrical thought processes of the brain with the electrical structure of electrons, protons, neutrons and subatomic particles that compose matter and that may interact with substance beyond our knowledge of solid matter, if it exists. But although such a conduit may exist, contact is not extended to all of humanity. Thus my interest in what happens during the experience of prayer.

I would say the closest to what you are describing would be the new birth.

But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
(1Co 2:9-12)

 

[YouAreAwesome]

what it is that prayer provides that cements the certainty of the existence of a personal and caring God in the mind of the believer?

I wouldn't say ones act of praying always "cements the certainty" though it will point one in that direction. However a personal and caring God is something one can come to know through prayer. Our understanding of Who God is can affect this process; and this is why those above talk about the Gospel (which literally means, good news). When we embrace that Jesus was the expression of God in human-bodily-form, as the Bible teaches, "The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being" (Hebrews 1:3), then we look to Jesus to find out Who God is. We find God to be One that loves us dearly, as Jesus laid down His life for our sake. This understanding of God Who deeply cares about us (as proven through the life of Jesus) is very Good News! When we realise He wants to give us peace more than we even desire it ourselves, this enables effective prayer. For the most effective prayer one must lay down ones own desires and ambition, humble themselves before God, ask for forgiveness, confess Jesus as Lord, and enter into the deep communion with God by the Holy Spirit. While prayer is possible and even somewhat experiential without these ingredients, when one truly repents (turns from the old ways of thinking) then prayer is much more likely to be a notable experience.

There has to be for those that question, a clear, unambiguous, and real connection with a supernatural entity in order to establish a certainty of its existence.

Yes. For me this occurred in an amazing way that has completely changed me.

And it would seem that the most personal connection would be through prayer, a connection through the ephemeral electrical thought processes of the brain with the electrical structure of electrons, protons, neutrons and subatomic particles that compose matter and that may interact with substance beyond our knowledge of solid matter, if it exists.

Yes.

But although such a conduit may exist, contact is not extended to all of humanity.

I would think contact is extended to all of humanity.

 

[dhh712]

I am not a believer in any religion. In my opinion, based on what I know through science, reason, and observation of humanity, religions were and are created by humans. I also know that many, if not most, Christians (to pick a religion) have a sincere, actual Belief, that their religious heritage and their Bible is really true, the entire text, the “Gospel truth”. Although many profess belief in the essence of their Bible they also hold somewhat in abeyance some of biblical texts and stories that they feel may have been “adjusted” through whatever agency, to provide an understanding of “universal truths” through language and terms that could be understood in ancient times. But one thing pretty much all religions have in common is the practice of prayer, in forms both ritual and personal. Adherents engage in this practice quite often. I’ve tried it, you know, a "what’s this all about experiment", and I have found nothing there. Nothing external or internal, just mental meanderings. So I wonder, what do serious, convicted religious people experience when praying that cuts through the cultural stew of human existence and cultures and supports a belief in a supernatural being?

It's very difficult, for me, to engage in private prayer. Often I can hardly keep a single thought for more than a few moments before my mind jumps off in a different direction (I'm quite scatter-brained). I find that dedicated daily prayers has been part of what God has used to increase my sanctification in small measures. As hard as it is, I seem to be growing spiritually partially as a result of daily prayer (of course, there are many times I find myself regressing spiritually).

Communal prayer I find way easier; when it is guided by someone, often a pastor, I find it easier to concentrate on the ideas and imploring God for sundry things.

Individual prayer is a task though; I've heard similar things from a few other Christians though, most of them pastors (maybe all of them; I frequently listen to sermons and I find that a common theme among the various pastors I've listened to), that they find prayer to be very difficult.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[ToBeLoved]

Religious people have NO access to God...none, zilch, nada.

That probably does not make much sense to someone who is not a believer and does not know the Bible well.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I am not a believer in any religion. In my opinion, based on what I know through science, reason, and observation of humanity, religions were and are created by humans. I also know that many, if not most, Christians (to pick a religion) have a sincere, actual Belief, that their religious heritage and their Bible is really true, the entire text, the “Gospel truth”. Although many profess belief in the essence of their Bible they also hold somewhat in abeyance some of biblical texts and stories that they feel may have been “adjusted” through whatever agency, to provide an understanding of “universal truths” through language and terms that could be understood in ancient times. But one thing pretty much all religions have in common is the practice of prayer, in forms both ritual and personal. Adherents engage in this practice quite often. I’ve tried it, you know, a "what’s this all about experiment", and I have found nothing there. Nothing external or internal, just mental meanderings. So I wonder, what do serious, convicted religious people experience when praying that cuts through the cultural stew of human existence and cultures and supports a belief in a supernatural being?

This is the way I will try to explain prayer to you at least from my POV.

I will be simplifying it hopefully so you understand better.

If you have ever had a best friend, most of us feel we can tell that best friend anything. And when we are around that best friend, usually we feel the most like ourselves because our best friend knows us so well. And when we are hurting, that is usually the person we go to to talk about our hurt. And when we are happy, we go to our best friend and share our happiness.

Jesus can become your best friend. If you want Him to. You choose Jesus and you chose Him to be your friend. And He knows every thought you have in your mind and ever fear you have in your heart and every time you smile, and every time you experience joy.

That is how I feel I can be with Jesus. If I am sad, I can cry and talk to Him. If I am happy I can be happy and talk to Him. All the experiences I have, He knows about them. So He knows already everything that goes on with me and I can share everything with Him.

After you have a relationship with Jesus built upon your belief or faith in Him. He says that He "will never leave us or forsake us" so Jesus is there for you 24/7 365 days a year. Whenever you talk with Him, He listens to you and is there to comfort you and love you.

That is the type of relationship I have in prayer with Jesus.

Now, the good thing for you is Jesus wants ALL of the people to come to Him. Jesus says, "Those who come to me I will not cast away". So if you come to Jesus, He will never tell you to go away.

You can have Jesus like I do and pray like I do and all the other Children of God. You just have to choose Jesus for yourself and tell Him that you believe in Him. That He is the Son of God who died on the cross for you and you have faith and believe in Him.

You do not need to wonder what it is like to pray. You can choose to have faith and belief in Christ and start praying today.

 

[SkyWriting]

I am not a believer in any religion. In my opinion, based on what I know through science, reason, and observation of humanity, religions were and are created by humans. I also know that many, if not most, Christians (to pick a religion) have a sincere, actual Belief, that their religious heritage and their Bible is really true, the entire text, the “Gospel truth”. Although many profess belief in the essence of their Bible they also hold somewhat in abeyance some of biblical texts and stories that they feel may have been “adjusted” through whatever agency, to provide an understanding of “universal truths” through language and terms that could be understood in ancient times. But one thing pretty much all religions have in common is the practice of prayer, in forms both ritual and personal. Adherents engage in this practice quite often. I’ve tried it, you know, a "what’s this all about experiment", and I have found nothing there. Nothing external or internal, just mental meanderings. So I wonder, what do serious, convicted religious people experience when praying that cuts through the cultural stew of human existence and cultures and supports a belief in a supernatural being?

Mostly nothing. Even preachers are unable to experience much, if anything in their lives.
See "answered prayer" below.

 

[Martin Moe]

Thank you all for your replies to my questions, sorry that I do not have the time right now to fully engage in a discussion. I know I shouldn’t have started it if I can’t follow through with it. But from your answers I get the pretty much general impression that religious people know that God really wants (to be anthropocentric about the nature of God) to make contact and be involved and help in the lives of his human creations. Evidently the first step beyond the cultural introduction to the concept of a supernatural God, is to sincerely believe, without physical confirmation, that a God exists. The second step is to beseech It to recognize your sincerity in your quest and convince It to accept your plea and help you in your journey through life. And I guess the third step is live your life in “companionship” with this supernatural entity. So, basically, you have to believe first, then beg, and then surrender your intellect to the possibly strong, possibly weak, depending on the individual, interaction with this supernatural being. I guess some of us can do that, and some of can’t understand what it’s all about and can’t fake it, knowingly or unknowingly, just to fit in and be included in the cultural acceptance and comradery of religious organizations. I don’t know if nonacceptance of the possibility or actuality that God is “real” is an emotional denial of a universal ephemeral truth beyond our physical senses, or just recognition that religion is part of the biological and social behavioral traits developed through our evolutionary journey into the species of Homo sapiens. But I think I have a little better understanding of what prayer means to various individuals, even though I still have no understanding of it.