Exodus

[FaithT]

Post22 you said NO scholars believe Moses wrote the first five books of the Bible.

 

[redleghunter]

What difference does it make?

All the difference. If this is from 19th and early 20th century scholarship as I suspect, the archaeological digs of the early 20th century on refute these claims.

Your Luke sources need to be confirmed.

 

[redleghunter]

Geographical Errors Within The New Testament
The Bible Archives | Bismika Allahumageographical-errors-new-testament
Furthermore, the Gospel according to Luke, another anonymous gospel, also contains a number of geographical errors that have led scholars to the conclusion that its author was not from Palestine. Brown comments:

You realize this source is a Muslim Apologetics site and they take great liberty to take many of the quotes out of the context of the works quoted.

Could you form an argument for us from the source material? It would be helpful to know which sources these quotes come from and the actual archaeological data relied upon.

 

[redleghunter]

Luke's geography is poor and scholars have studied his writings for a long time.

Profile of Luke the Evangelist, Author of a Gospel Acts
Guide to the Beliefs and Religions of the Worldluke-the-evangelist-profile-and-biography-248815
Jun 25, 2019 · Because the Gospel According to Luke doesn’t display accurate knowledge of Palestinian geography, the author probably didn’t live there or compose the gospel there. Some traditions suggest that he wrote in Boeotia or Rome. Some scholars today have suggested places such as Caesarea and the Decapolis. He might have traveled with Paul on some of this journeys.

Once again a skeptic site which makes the assertions above without citation.

Once again, forming an argument with actual original sources would help.

All I’ve seen are lists of websites making a claim and not substantiating the claims.

 

[summerville]

Once again a skeptic site which makes the assertions above without citation.

Once again, forming an argument with actual original sources would help.

All I’ve seen are lists of websites making a claim and not substantiating the claims.

Did you read any of the links? 2 million Israelites and 5 million (or more livestock) couldn't survived in Sinai... and then by the time they got to Jerusalem there were less than a thousand people under king David, the bandit king.

 

[redleghunter]

This may help.
The Luke Travel Narratives – Gordon Franz | Articles Links ...
February 21, 2008 – Articles Links & Blog...
Feb 21, 2008 · C. C. McCown suggests that the geography of the Luke travel Narrative contains omissions, inexactitudes, and positive errors. He states, “… for Luke geography and topography serve merely as literary devices. He is not interested in itineraries as were travelers, both Christian and non-Christians, at a slightly later time

Read this one. All of it. Recommend you do so as well. The scholar writing the article refutes what you are trying to present.

I mean the article is from a Plymouth Brethren theologian and they are from early 20th century the original fundamentalists. Gordon Franz who wrote the article is actually taking the opposite position you and the skeptics take.

 

[redleghunter]

Did you read any of the links? 2 million Israelites and 5 million (or more livestock) couldn't survived in Sinai... and then by the time they got to Jerusalem there were less than a thousand people under king David, the bandit king.

You keep switching horses between the NT and OT. The above was already addressed on page 1.

You either accept the miraculous or you don’t.

Let me ask a question which should clear up a lot. Do the dead rise?

 

[redleghunter]

Did you read any of the links? 2 million Israelites and 5 million (or more livestock) couldn't survived in Sinai... and then by the time they got to Jerusalem there were less than a thousand people under king David, the bandit king.

I think you have some huge gaps of history here. Have you actually read the OT?

 

[summerville]

Read this one. All of it. Recommend you do so as well. The scholar writing the article refutes what you are trying to present.

I mean the article is from a Plymouth Brethren theologian and they are from early 20th century the original fundamentalists. Gordon Franz who wrote the article is actually taking the opposite position you and the skeptics take.

I know who the Plymouth Brethern are.. Scofield taught their heresy.

So here are my questions from this story:

1. Most people only need a tiny miricle or even no miracle to stay faithful to God. But these people saw The Most Fantastic Miracle Ever!!! and still betrayed God within days. Doesn't that seem unlikely?
   
   
2. What kind of soldier wouldn't revolt or defect upon seeing the pillar of fire and parted sea!?
   
   
3. Why didn't the Pharaoh die with the 10th plague?
   
   
4. Why did God harden Pharaoh's heart so that pharaoh would not listen to Moses? Doesn't the Bible say "God would rather have us all repent than to dish out eternal destruction."?
   
   
5. If God is Love then why didn't he spare the Egyption army, and close the sea back up before they got there?
   
   
6. Is it loving to kill every firstborn in a nation?
   
   
7. Reddit, are these reasonable flaws in the story of Moses and The Exodus? : atheism

 

[summerville]

I think you have some huge gaps of history here. Have you actually read the OT?

Many times.. Where did Joshua's huge army come from?

The Bible is Wrong About 1,000,000 Ethiopians Being Murdered
The Church Of Truth™the-bible-is-wrong-about-1000000-ethiopians-being-murdered

• The story of killing 1,000,000 Ethiopians is an example of the ridiculous nature of all of the old testament. In order to mount an army of one million, the population would have to be at least 4 million. There were nowhere near four million Ethiopians alive at that time. Only Egypt came close to those numbers in those days. According to Colin McEvedy in his reference book “Atlas of World Population History”, Ethiopia had a population of 200,000 in 1000 BC. McEvedy makes the case that the enti...

 

[redleghunter]

I know who the Plymouth Brethern are.. Scofield taught their heresy.

So here are my questions from this story:

1. Most people only need a tiny miricle or even no miracle to stay faithful to God. But these people saw The Most Fantastic Miracle Ever!!! and still betrayed God within days. Doesn't that seem unlikely?
   
   
2. What kind of soldier wouldn't revolt or defect upon seeing the pillar of fire and parted sea!?
   
   
3. Why didn't the Pharaoh die with the 10th plague?
   
   
4. Why did God harden Pharaoh's heart so that pharaoh would not listen to Moses? Doesn't the Bible say "God would rather have us all repent than to dish out eternal destruction."?
   
   
5. If God is Love then why didn't he spare the Egyption army, and close the sea back up before they got there?
   
   
6. Is it loving to kill every firstborn in a nation?
   
   
7. Reddit, are these reasonable flaws in the story of Moses and The Exodus? : atheism

These are questions from non believers. Why do you use them.

Do the dead rise?

 

[redleghunter]

Many times.. Where did Joshua's huge army come from?

The Bible is Wrong About 1,000,000 Ethiopians Being Murdered
The Church Of Truth™the-bible-is-wrong-about-1000000-ethiopians-being-murdered

• The story of killing 1,000,000 Ethiopians is an example of the ridiculous nature of all of the old testament. In order to mount an army of one million, the population would have to be at least 4 million. There were nowhere near four million Ethiopians alive at that time. Only Egypt came close to those numbers in those days. According to Colin McEvedy in his reference book “Atlas of World Population History”, Ethiopia had a population of 200,000 in 1000 BC. McEvedy makes the case that the enti...

How do they know?

 

[redleghunter]

Where did Joshua's huge army come from?

From a culture which did not believe in aborting their children.

 

[FaithT]

Summerville, what does your church teach about these things?

 

[Athanasius377]

Most people only need a tiny miricle or even no miracle to stay faithful to God. But these people saw The Most Fantastic Miracle Ever!!! and still betrayed God within days. Doesn't that seem unlikely?

Well, Peter witnessed Jesus heal the sick, raise the dead, feed the 5000, walk on water and be transfigured and he denied Jesus three times.

What kind of soldier wouldn't revolt or defect upon seeing the pillar of fire and parted sea!?

The loyal kind. Besides, where would a feeing soldier go exactly?

• Why didn't the Pharaoh die with the 10th plague?

Because he was not first born. I suspect the Pharaoh mentioned in the account is Amenhotep II though the idea is not without its problems.

• Why did God harden Pharaoh's heart so that pharaoh would not listen to Moses? Doesn't the Bible say "God would rather have us all repent than to dish out eternal destruction."?

• If God is Love then why didn't he spare the Egyption army, and close the sea back up before they got there?

• Is it loving to kill every firstborn in a nation?

Paul tells us in Romans 9:

13 As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— 24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?



The Holy Bible: English Standard Version. (2016). (Ro 9:13–24). Wheaton, IL: Crossway Bibles.

 

[summerville]

From a culture which did not believe in aborting their children.

Historically the population of all of Palestine was never more than 700,000.

 

[summerville]

Well, Peter witnessed Jesus heal the sick, raise the dead, feed the 5000, walk on water and be transfigured and he denied Jesus three times.


The loyal kind. Besides, where would a feeing soldier go exactly?


Because he was not first born. I suspect the Pharaoh mentioned in the account is Amenhotep II though the idea is not without its problems.


Paul tells us in Romans 9:

13 As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— 24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?



The Holy Bible: English Standard Version. (2016). (Ro 9:13–24). Wheaton, IL: Crossway Bibles.

Moses was raised in Pharaoh's household, but didn't know the name of the Pharaoh.

 

[Athanasius377]

Moses was raised in Pharaoh's household, but didn't know the name of the Pharaoh.

correct. It very well could be in keeping with the naming convention of the time when Pharaoh was simply "Pharaoh". Pharaoh plus a name begins to appear in the tenth century BC. Then again it could be be not wanting to name an adversary. It's one of the many things I plan on asking Jesus when I meet Him.

 

[summerville]

correct. It very well could be in keeping with the naming convention of the time when Pharaoh was simply "Pharaoh". Pharaoh plus a name begins to appear in the tenth century BC. Then again it could be be not wanting to name an adversary. It's one of the many things I plan on asking Jesus when I meet Him.

Desert people collect dried dung to use as fuel since trees were so rare. Have you never wondered why the Israelites needed "Manna" when they had several million goats and sheep?

They could have eaten milk, yogurt and meat like other desert nomads and cooked over dung fires.

 

[redleghunter]

Moses was raised in Pharaoh's household, but didn't know the name of the Pharaoh.

Where does it say that in Exodus?