Exodus

[FaithT]

There are a couple of problems. Goshen was an Arabic word.. There was NO Goshen in the time of Moses and there were no domesticated camels.

Domesticated Camels Came to Israel in 930 B.C., Centuries ...
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/2/...
Camels were probably first domesticated in the Arabian Peninsula in the early first millennium B.C. Archaeologists base this date on mortality profiles of excavated skeletons, the gender of the ...

Is this like when you said there were NO scholars who believed Moses wrote the OT?

 

[summerville]

Is this like when you said there were NO scholars who believed Moses wrote the OT?

That's correct.

What did Moses Write? - Bible Hub
https://biblehub.com/library/gladden/who_wrote_the_bible/chapter_ii_what_did_moses.htm
The facts are, that Jesus nowhere testifies that Moses wrote the whole of the Pentateuch; and that he nowhere guarantees the infallibility either of Moses or of the book. On the contrary, he sets aside as inadequate or morally defective certain laws which in this book are ascribed to Moses. It …

Excerpt:
It is certain that if Moses wrote these books he did not call them "Genesis," "Exodus," "Leviticus," "Numbers," "Deuteronomy;" for these words, again, come from languages that he never heard. Four of them are Greek words, and one of them, Numbers, is a Latin word. These names were given to the several books at a very late day. What are their names in the Hebrew Bible? Each of them is called by the first word, or some of the first words in the book. The Jews were apt to name their books, as we name our hymns, by the initial word or words; thus they called the first of these five books, "Bereshith," "In the Beginning;" the second one "Veelleh Shemoth," "Now these are the names;" the third one "Vayikra," "And he called," and so on. The titles in our English Bible are much more significant and appropriate than these original Hebrew titles; thus Genesis signifies origin, and Genesis is the Book of Origins; Exodus means departure, and the book describes the departure of Israel from Egypt; Leviticus points out the fact that the book is mainly occupied with the Levitical legislation; Numbers gives a history of the numbering of the people, and Deuteronomy, which means the second law, contains what seems to be a recapitulation and reenactment of the legislation of the preceding books. But these English titles, which are partly translated and partly transferred to English from older Latin and Greek titles, tell us nothing trustworthy about the authorship of the books.

 

[FaithT]

That's correct.

What did Moses Write? - Bible Hub
https://biblehub.com/library/gladden/who_wrote_the_bible/chapter_ii_what_did_moses.htm
The facts are, that Jesus nowhere testifies that Moses wrote the whole of the Pentateuch; and that he nowhere guarantees the infallibility either of Moses or of the book. On the contrary, he sets aside as inadequate or morally defective certain laws which in this book are ascribed to Moses. It …

Excerpt:
It is certain that if Moses wrote these books he did not call them "Genesis," "Exodus," "Leviticus," "Numbers," "Deuteronomy;" for these words, again, come from languages that he never heard. Four of them are Greek words, and one of them, Numbers, is a Latin word. These names were given to the several books at a very late day. What are their names in the Hebrew Bible? Each of them is called by the first word, or some of the first words in the book. The Jews were apt to name their books, as we name our hymns, by the initial word or words; thus they called the first of these five books, "Bereshith," "In the Beginning;" the second one "Veelleh Shemoth," "Now these are the names;" the third one "Vayikra," "And he called," and so on. The titles in our English Bible are much more significant and appropriate than these original Hebrew titles; thus Genesis signifies origin, and Genesis is the Book of Origins; Exodus means departure, and the book describes the departure of Israel from Egypt; Leviticus points out the fact that the book is mainly occupied with the Levitical legislation; Numbers gives a history of the numbering of the people, and Deuteronomy, which means the second law, contains what seems to be a recapitulation and reenactment of the legislation of the preceding books. But these English titles, which are partly translated and partly transferred to English from older Latin and Greek titles, tell us nothing trustworthy about the authorship of the books.

LOL! So you’re agreeing with me? A simple google search will show you that you were wrong last time.

 

[redleghunter]

That's correct.

What did Moses Write? - Bible Hub
https://biblehub.com/library/gladden/who_wrote_the_bible/chapter_ii_what_did_moses.htm
The facts are, that Jesus nowhere testifies that Moses wrote the whole of the Pentateuch; and that he nowhere guarantees the infallibility either of Moses or of the book. On the contrary, he sets aside as inadequate or morally defective certain laws which in this book are ascribed to Moses. It …

Excerpt:
It is certain that if Moses wrote these books he did not call them "Genesis," "Exodus," "Leviticus," "Numbers," "Deuteronomy;" for these words, again, come from languages that he never heard. Four of them are Greek words, and one of them, Numbers, is a Latin word. These names were given to the several books at a very late day. What are their names in the Hebrew Bible? Each of them is called by the first word, or some of the first words in the book. The Jews were apt to name their books, as we name our hymns, by the initial word or words; thus they called the first of these five books, "Bereshith," "In the Beginning;" the second one "Veelleh Shemoth," "Now these are the names;" the third one "Vayikra," "And he called," and so on. The titles in our English Bible are much more significant and appropriate than these original Hebrew titles; thus Genesis signifies origin, and Genesis is the Book of Origins; Exodus means departure, and the book describes the departure of Israel from Egypt; Leviticus points out the fact that the book is mainly occupied with the Levitical legislation; Numbers gives a history of the numbering of the people, and Deuteronomy, which means the second law, contains what seems to be a recapitulation and reenactment of the legislation of the preceding books. But these English titles, which are partly translated and partly transferred to English from older Latin and Greek titles, tell us nothing trustworthy about the authorship of the books.

This is by Washington Gladden a 19th century socialist minister. Not surprised.

The facts are, that Jesus nowhere testifies that Moses wrote the whole of the Pentateuch; and that he nowhere guarantees the infallibility either of Moses or of the book. On the contrary, he sets aside as inadequate or morally defective certain laws which in this book are ascribed to Moses.​

The first sentence is not a fact but a clever distraction. Here's why:
​

John 1: NASB
17For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ. 18No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

John 7: NASB
“Did not Moses give you the Law, and yet none of you carries out the Law? Why do you seek to kill Me?”

Luke 24: NASB
25And He said to them, “O foolish men and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! 26“Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and to enter into His glory?” 27Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.

Luke 24: NASB
44Now He said to them, “These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” 45Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, 46and He said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day, 47and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem. 48“You are witnesses of these things. 49“And behold, I am sending forth the promise of My Father upon you; but you are to stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high.”​

The second sentence is not correct. Here's why first show me where Jesus sets aside something from the Law.
Secondly we have this:
​

Matthew 5: NASB
17“Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18“For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19“Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.​

​

 

[summerville]

This is by Washington Gladden a 19th century socialist minister. Not surprised.

The facts are, that Jesus nowhere testifies that Moses wrote the whole of the Pentateuch; and that he nowhere guarantees the infallibility either of Moses or of the book. On the contrary, he sets aside as inadequate or morally defective certain laws which in this book are ascribed to Moses.​

The first sentence is not a fact but a clever distraction. Here's why:
​

John 1: NASB
17For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ. 18No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

John 7: NASB
“Did not Moses give you the Law, and yet none of you carries out the Law? Why do you seek to kill Me?”

Luke 24: NASB
25And He said to them, “O foolish men and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! 26“Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and to enter into His glory?” 27Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.

Luke 24: NASB
44Now He said to them, “These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” 45Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, 46and He said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day, 47and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem. 48“You are witnesses of these things. 49“And behold, I am sending forth the promise of My Father upon you; but you are to stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high.”​

The second sentence is not correct. Here's why first show me where Jesus sets aside something from the Law.
Secondly we have this:
​

Matthew 5: NASB
17“Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18“For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19“Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.​

​

I am fond of the Gospel of Luke even though he wrote from Antioch and got the geography of Palestine all wrong.

 

[redleghunter]

I am fond of the Gospel of Luke even though he wrote from Antioch and got the geography of Palestine all wrong.

Evidence please.

 

[FaithT]

That's correct.

What did Moses Write? - Bible Hub
https://biblehub.com/library/gladden/who_wrote_the_bible/chapter_ii_what_did_moses.htm
The facts are, that Jesus nowhere testifies that Moses wrote the whole of the Pentateuch; and that he nowhere guarantees the infallibility either of Moses or of the book. On the contrary, he sets aside as inadequate or morally defective certain laws which in this book are ascribed to Moses. It …

Excerpt:
It is certain that if Moses wrote these books he did not call them "Genesis," "Exodus," "Leviticus," "Numbers," "Deuteronomy;" for these words, again, come from languages that he never heard. Four of them are Greek words, and one of them, Numbers, is a Latin word. These names were given to the several books at a very late day. What are their names in the Hebrew Bible? Each of them is called by the first word, or some of the first words in the book. The Jews were apt to name their books, as we name our hymns, by the initial word or words; thus they called the first of these five books, "Bereshith," "In the Beginning;" the second one "Veelleh Shemoth," "Now these are the names;" the third one "Vayikra," "And he called," and so on. The titles in our English Bible are much more significant and appropriate than these original Hebrew titles; thus Genesis signifies origin, and Genesis is the Book of Origins; Exodus means departure, and the book describes the departure of Israel from Egypt; Leviticus points out the fact that the book is mainly occupied with the Levitical legislation; Numbers gives a history of the numbering of the people, and Deuteronomy, which means the second law, contains what seems to be a recapitulation and reenactment of the legislation of the preceding books. But these English titles, which are partly translated and partly transferred to English from older Latin and Greek titles, tell us nothing trustworthy about the authorship of the books.

 

[FaithT]

Camels: Proof That the Bible Is False?

 

[summerville]

This is by Washington Gladden a 19th century socialist minister. Not surprised.

The facts are, that Jesus nowhere testifies that Moses wrote the whole of the Pentateuch; and that he nowhere guarantees the infallibility either of Moses or of the book. On the contrary, he sets aside as inadequate or morally defective certain laws which in this book are ascribed to Moses.​

The first sentence is not a fact but a clever distraction. Here's why:
​

John 1: NASB
17For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ. 18No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

John 7: NASB
“Did not Moses give you the Law, and yet none of you carries out the Law? Why do you seek to kill Me?”

Luke 24: NASB
25And He said to them, “O foolish men and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! 26“Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and to enter into His glory?” 27Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.

Luke 24: NASB
44Now He said to them, “These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” 45Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, 46and He said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day, 47and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem. 48“You are witnesses of these things. 49“And behold, I am sending forth the promise of My Father upon you; but you are to stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high.”​

The second sentence is not correct. Here's why first show me where Jesus sets aside something from the Law.
Secondly we have this:
​

Matthew 5: NASB
17“Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18“For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19“Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.​

​

This may help.
The Luke Travel Narratives – Gordon Franz | Articles Links ...
February 21, 2008 – Articles Links & Blog...
Feb 21, 2008 · C. C. McCown suggests that the geography of the Luke travel Narrative contains omissions, inexactitudes, and positive errors. He states, “… for Luke geography and topography serve merely as literary devices. He is not interested in itineraries as were travelers, both Christian and non-Christians, at a slightly later time …








The Exodus: Fact or Fiction? - Biblical Archaeology Society
https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-topics/exodus/exodus-fact-or-fiction
Jan 01, 2020 · There was NO confrontation with Pharaoh ( He was already dead),.There was no death of the first born of Egypt. This refers to the death of the Crown Prince of Egypt. Definitely a late addition to the story. The name Egypt only appears during the 26th Dynasty (6th Century BC). There was NO pursuit and parting of the Red Sea.

 

[summerville]

Luke's geography is poor and scholars have studied his writings for a long time.

Profile of Luke the Evangelist, Author of a Gospel Acts
Guide to the Beliefs and Religions of the Worldluke-the-evangelist-profile-and-biography-248815
Jun 25, 2019 · Because the Gospel According to Luke doesn’t display accurate knowledge of Palestinian geography, the author probably didn’t live there or compose the gospel there. Some traditions suggest that he wrote in Boeotia or Rome. Some scholars today have suggested places such as Caesarea and the Decapolis. He might have traveled with Paul on some of this journeys.


Geographical Errors Within The New Testament
The Bible Archives | Bismika Allahumageographical-errors-new-testament
Furthermore, the Gospel according to Luke, another anonymous gospel, also contains a number of geographical errors that have led scholars to the conclusion that its author was not from Palestine. Brown comments:

 

[redleghunter]

This may help.
The Luke Travel Narratives – Gordon Franz | Articles Links ...
February 21, 2008 – Articles Links & Blog...
Feb 21, 2008 · C. C. McCown suggests that the geography of the Luke travel Narrative contains omissions, inexactitudes, and positive errors. He states, “… for Luke geography and topography serve merely as literary devices. He is not interested in itineraries as were travelers, both Christian and non-Christians, at a slightly later time …

When was CC McCrown quoted as writing the above? AKA what year?

 

[redleghunter]

Luke's geography is poor and scholars have studied his writings for a long time.

Profile of Luke the Evangelist, Author of a Gospel Acts
Guide to the Beliefs and Religions of the Worldluke-the-evangelist-profile-and-biography-248815
Jun 25, 2019 · Because the Gospel According to Luke doesn’t display accurate knowledge of Palestinian geography, the author probably didn’t live there or compose the gospel there. Some traditions suggest that he wrote in Boeotia or Rome. Some scholars today have suggested places such as Caesarea and the Decapolis. He might have traveled with Paul on some of this journeys.


Geographical Errors Within The New Testament
The Bible Archives | Bismika Allahumageographical-errors-new-testament
Furthermore, the Gospel according to Luke, another anonymous gospel, also contains a number of geographical errors that have led scholars to the conclusion that its author was not from Palestine. Brown comments:

Again cite the actual authors and dates who make this claim.

 

[summerville]

When was CC McCrown quoted as writing the above? AKA what year?

What difference does it make?

BTW, Sinai is only about 135 miles across and today only has a population of 800,000 people. Its a pretty tough landscape in terms of water and pasture.

In the time of the Exodus there were Canaanite towns in that were involved in mining, metallurgy and pottery making. They were protected by Egyptian garrisons and paid tribute to the Pharaoh.

 

[summerville]

Most Biblical scholars date the writing of the Biblical books that deal with Moses and the Exodus (the Torah or Pentateuch), in stages, during the period between the 9th and 5th centuries BC.


The Biblical Exodus Story Is Fiction | HuffPost
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-biblical-exodus-story-is-fiction_b_1408123
As it turns out, well-known Jewish commentator and author Rabbi David Wolpe has also known about the Exodus Myth. In his article, "Did the Exodus Really Happen?" he mentions that other rabbis wanted him to keep the fiction of the Exodus story on the down-low. The basic story of the Exodus from Egypt (extracting supernatural elements) was touted to me as one of the most historical aspects of the Bible, …

 

[Athanasius377]

That's correct.

What did Moses Write? - Bible Hub
https://biblehub.com/library/gladden/who_wrote_the_bible/chapter_ii_what_did_moses.htm
The facts are, that Jesus nowhere testifies that Moses wrote the whole of the Pentateuch; and that he nowhere guarantees the infallibility either of Moses or of the book. On the contrary, he sets aside as inadequate or morally defective certain laws which in this book are ascribed to Moses. It …

Excerpt:
It is certain that if Moses wrote these books he did not call them "Genesis," "Exodus," "Leviticus," "Numbers," "Deuteronomy;" for these words, again, come from languages that he never heard. Four of them are Greek words, and one of them, Numbers, is a Latin word. These names were given to the several books at a very late day. What are their names in the Hebrew Bible? Each of them is called by the first word, or some of the first words in the book. The Jews were apt to name their books, as we name our hymns, by the initial word or words; thus they called the first of these five books, "Bereshith," "In the Beginning;" the second one "Veelleh Shemoth," "Now these are the names;" the third one "Vayikra," "And he called," and so on. The titles in our English Bible are much more significant and appropriate than these original Hebrew titles; thus Genesis signifies origin, and Genesis is the Book of Origins; Exodus means departure, and the book describes the departure of Israel from Egypt; Leviticus points out the fact that the book is mainly occupied with the Levitical legislation; Numbers gives a history of the numbering of the people, and Deuteronomy, which means the second law, contains what seems to be a recapitulation and reenactment of the legislation of the preceding books. But these English titles, which are partly translated and partly transferred to English from older Latin and Greek titles, tell us nothing trustworthy about the authorship of the books.

Ok. That’s the etymology of the names of the books. Mostly from the Septuagint translation. So what? We know how the books were named in modern English bibles. Incipets are common ways to name things like hymns and even Psalms. What’s your point.

 

[summerville]

Ok. That’s the etymology of the names of the books. Mostly from the Septuagint translation. So what? We know how the books were named in modern English bibles. Incipets are common ways to name things like hymns and even Psalms. What’s your point.

The Exodus is an important story even if it isn't history.

Did the Exodus Never Happen? | Christianity Today
https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/1998/september7/8ta044.html
"The period of the patriarchs, exodus, conquest, or judges as devised by the writers of Scriptures ... never existed," declares Robert Coote of San Francisco Theological Seminary. The Genesis and Exodus accounts are "a fiction written around the middle …

 

[FaithT]

Most Biblical scholars date the writing of the Biblical books that deal with Moses and the Exodus (the Torah or Pentateuch), in stages, during the period between the 9th and 5th centuries BC.


The Biblical Exodus Story Is Fiction | HuffPost
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-biblical-exodus-story-is-fiction_b_1408123
As it turns out, well-known Jewish commentator and author Rabbi David Wolpe has also known about the Exodus Myth. In his article, "Did the Exodus Really Happen?" he mentions that other rabbis wanted him to keep the fiction of the Exodus story on the down-low. The basic story of the Exodus from Egypt (extracting supernatural elements) was touted to me as one of the most historical aspects of the Bible, …

MOST? You said previously that NO scholars believe the Bible.

 

[Athanasius377]

The Exodus is an important story even if it isn't history.

Did the Exodus Never Happen? | Christianity Today
https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/1998/september7/8ta044.html
"The period of the patriarchs, exodus, conquest, or judges as devised by the writers of Scriptures ... never existed," declares Robert Coote of San Francisco Theological Seminary. The Genesis and Exodus accounts are "a fiction written around the middle …

Yes. I am familiar with Robert Coote he contributed to a commentary on Joshua that I have in my library. He’s a self avowed radical “new” skeptic. His basic thesis is based on higher criticism of the text excluding any archeological findings. This is the same guy, am I right? It’s been awhile since I read that commentary

 

[summerville]

MOST? You said previously that NO scholars believe the Bible.

That's not what I said at all.


RaceandHistory.com - Doubting the Story of Exodus
www.raceandhistory.com/historicalviews/doubtingexodus.htm
Apr 13, 2001 · Doubting the Story of Exodus. Many scholars have quietly concluded that the epic of Moses never happened, and even Jewish clerics are raising questions. Others think it combines myth, cultural memories and kernels of truth.


excerpt:

Today, the prevailing theory is that Israel probably emerged peacefully out of Canaan--modern-day Lebanon, southern Syria, Jordan and the West Bank of Israel--whose people are portrayed in the Bible as wicked idolators.

Under this theory, the Canaanites took on a new identity as Israelites were perhaps joined or led by a small group of Semites from Egypt--explaining a possible source of the Exodus story, scholars say.

As they expanded their settlement, they may have begun to clash with neighbors, perhaps providing the historical nuggets for the conflicts recorded in Joshua and Judges.

"Scholars have known these things for a long time, but we've broken the news very gently," said William Dever, a professor of Near Eastern archeology and anthropology at the University of Arizona and one of America's preeminent archeologists.

Dever's view is emblematic of a fundamental shift in archeology.

Three decades ago as a Christian seminary student, he wrote a paper defending the Exodus and got an A, but "no one would do that today," he says.

The old emphasis on trying to prove the Bible--often in excavations by amateur archeologists funded by religious groups--has given way to more objective professionals aiming to piece together the reality of ancient lifestyles.

But the modern archeological consensus over the Exodus is just beginning to reach the public. In 1999, an Israeli archeologist, Ze'ev Herzog of Tel Aviv University, set off a furor in Israel by writing in a popular magazine that stories of the patriarchs were myths and that neither the Exodus nor Joshua's conquests ever occurred.

In the hottest controversy today, Herzog also argued that the united monarchy of David and Solomon, described as grand and glorious in the Bible, was at best a small tribal kingdom.

In a new book this year, "The Bible Unearthed," Israeli archeologist Israel Finklestein of Tel Aviv University and archeological journalist Neil Asher Silberman raised similar doubts and offered a new theory about the roots of the Exodus story.

The authors argue that the story was written during the time of King Josia of Judah in the 7th century BC--600 years after the Exodus supposedly occurred in 1250 BC--as a political manifesto to unite Israelites against the rival Egyptian empire as both states sought to expand their territory.

Dever argued that the Exodus story was produced for theological reasons: to give an origin and history to a people and distinguish them from others by claiming a divine destiny.

 

[FaithT]

That's not what I said at all.


RaceandHistory.com - Doubting the Story of Exodus
www.raceandhistory.com/historicalviews/doubtingexodus.htm
Apr 13, 2001 · Doubting the Story of Exodus. Many scholars have quietly concluded that the epic of Moses never happened, and even Jewish clerics are raising questions. Others think it combines myth, cultural memories and kernels of truth.


excerpt:

Today, the prevailing theory is that Israel probably emerged peacefully out of Canaan--modern-day Lebanon, southern Syria, Jordan and the West Bank of Israel--whose people are portrayed in the Bible as wicked idolators.

Under this theory, the Canaanites took on a new identity as Israelites were perhaps joined or led by a small group of Semites from Egypt--explaining a possible source of the Exodus story, scholars say.

As they expanded their settlement, they may have begun to clash with neighbors, perhaps providing the historical nuggets for the conflicts recorded in Joshua and Judges.

"Scholars have known these things for a long time, but we've broken the news very gently," said William Dever, a professor of Near Eastern archeology and anthropology at the University of Arizona and one of America's preeminent archeologists.

Dever's view is emblematic of a fundamental shift in archeology.

Three decades ago as a Christian seminary student, he wrote a paper defending the Exodus and got an A, but "no one would do that today," he says.

The old emphasis on trying to prove the Bible--often in excavations by amateur archeologists funded by religious groups--has given way to more objective professionals aiming to piece together the reality of ancient lifestyles.

But the modern archeological consensus over the Exodus is just beginning to reach the public. In 1999, an Israeli archeologist, Ze'ev Herzog of Tel Aviv University, set off a furor in Israel by writing in a popular magazine that stories of the patriarchs were myths and that neither the Exodus nor Joshua's conquests ever occurred.

In the hottest controversy today, Herzog also argued that the united monarchy of David and Solomon, described as grand and glorious in the Bible, was at best a small tribal kingdom.

In a new book this year, "The Bible Unearthed," Israeli archeologist Israel Finklestein of Tel Aviv University and archeological journalist Neil Asher Silberman raised similar doubts and offered a new theory about the roots of the Exodus story.

The authors argue that the story was written during the time of King Josia of Judah in the 7th century BC--600 years after the Exodus supposedly occurred in 1250 BC--as a political manifesto to unite Israelites against the rival Egyptian empire as both states sought to expand their territory.

Dever argued that the Exodus story was produced for theological reasons: to give an origin and history to a people and distinguish them from others by claiming a divine destiny.