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Existential anger/depression

Discussion in 'Struggles by Non-Christians' started by VCR-2000, Apr 12, 2021.

  1. VCR-2000

    VCR-2000 Well-Known Member

    United States
    I'm getting existential depression or anger. I hate how we have been born in this finite material planet/universe only for it to end at some point in time. That we are obliged to choose between eventual eternal fate in the form of Heaven versus Hell and that whatever actions we do have implications toward one or the other. That we are tempted by Satan. That God allows him to do that despite being His and all holydom's most bitter enemy. That Satan and his own followers get literally a free pass to torment and lie to mankind en mass while we should just kneel and not take physical action. That my "reward" that I'm supposed to look forward to is merely spiritual and for God rather than my self or pursuing some form of material pleasure -- there can't be a balance between the two somehow. I'm interested in those who talk about the New World Order or One-world government theory since most of those types tend to be religious, but both Satan and God are also dictators in the cosmic form in a way because by his law and design we are made to depend on him for goodness. I try not to curse God and I can say I still like God in the end because Satan and Hell would be infinitely worse. I just don't get why the dynamic seems so one-sided, also why did God allow us to think it seems like the outcome he doesn't like? It's like one can't opt-out or escape either way, you are ultimately controlled. Even after dying it's still controlled in a way to some extent -- in Heaven you lose your agency to choose not to want a global relationship with everybody and become reprogrammed - but Hell is where eternal torment and wickedness is - and a lot of people are there not because they did something very wrong and immoral - but the choice that got them there is merely wanting to live on their own terms at least sometimes or that they followed in the "wrong" religious and belief traditions or culture.
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  2. SarahsKnight

    SarahsKnight Jesus Christ is this Knight's truth. Supporter

    United States
    Short answer: You'll probably start having a less toxic and seemingly untrusting view of God once you realize that the doctrine of eternal torment in hell - and that all humans are born with an inherently immortal soul - is actually not nearly as Biblically accurate as is traditionally taught in Christian churches (just because it's traditional doctrine and majority opinion among Christians doesn't automatically make it correct).
  3. Bobber

    Bobber Well-Known Member

    Where in the Bible did you read the rewards for the Christian or child of God is merely spiritual? So you might say that's what you've heard some Christians say? Doesn't matter what someone even well meaning might have told you. What matters is what the word of God says!

    Rather, as it is written: “No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no heart has imagined, what God has prepared for those who love Him.” 1 Cor 2:10
  4. VCR-2000

    VCR-2000 Well-Known Member

    United States
    I do think that it's implied somewhat because Christians are warned about it.
  5. Leet

    Leet Active Member

    You say spiritual rewards as though that would mean nothing, or are far less than anything we could experience in an earthly body. And I'm sure that would be flat out incorrect, just that we can't fathom eternal bliss or rewards in this state.
  6. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member Supporter

    United Kingdom
    You pay your money and takes your pick of the options!


    You choice a lifestyle and live it accepting the consequences in this life and the next.

    If a criminal complained about the consequences of a life of crime you would have harsh things to say to him, but that is what you are whineing about.

    Take a good hard look at what a world without Christian morality leads to, go on, Lok at life in China or in Eastern countries like India etc.

    For those with an education and contacts life, so long as one follows the right line, is very good.
    Equally if you offend your fall/death can come suddenly.

    Ask those who want a world order, what governs the morality, what is it based upon?
    Like atheists there morality is merely what ever happens to be convinent.

    Christianity does not promise you wealth or health and anyone who says it does is not telling the truth.

    However apart from offering the highest moral code to live by it does offer eternal life, a physical life on a physical world.

    What is your choice?
  7. VCR-2000

    VCR-2000 Well-Known Member

    United States
    Yeah, and that immorality came to America and Europe too and we were unable to stop it despite our best efforts. I dread the direction of society today of my own country and I heard rumors that we are going to have a nuclear war soon again.

    If I got to choose stuff, I would like to be re-incarnated into an older era in this space-time canon like the 1950s to 1990s. I still like that feeling of working and finally after challenge actually earning or achieving something. That's what I would presumably miss in Heaven. I would love to have a job, have a girlfriend or wife, etc. and grow up as a kid, teen, prime-aged adult in an era without the PC nonsense or what-have-you, big-brother stuff, yadda yadda. In the end of the day I'll still choose to go to Heaven I guess. But sometimes I am tempted to say that I would want to cease to consciously exist if that was a valid option. I have no control over it, but God is the only one who does yet he has a different plan or will than I. But when I talk about the above, sometimes I wonder if this hardship was the entire or even only point of my existence.
  8. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member Supporter

    United Kingdom

    Get real, it is out of our hearts and imaginations that evil comes. There never was a time when out side of Eden the world and humanity could be called morally pure.

    Nuclear war! Jesus said there will be wars, famine, disasters and rumours of wars etc.

    Your task is to be a Christian and to live as one.

    Use the Christianity explored or alpha course web sites to find a course near you and join it, that or start attending the church that runs those courses.
  9. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Wake me when it's soup. Supporter

    United States
    The devil has convinced most that they will share his and the demons fate. The wages of sin is death, not eternal life in torment.
  10. Bob8102

    Bob8102 Member

    United States
    VCR, I think you are laboring under a large number of misconceptions. Join the club! I first came to both understand the gospel and that I was not a Christian at about age 16. Until I was past fifty, I understood that I was not a Christian and not headed for heaven. But the idea of living the Christian life was unattractive to me and I did not begin to turn to seek how to be saved (and/or to seek if I was even willing to become willing to live the Christian life) until about ten years ago, at age fifty-plus. (In another post, I said I have been seeking salvation for 20 years. I miscalculated; it's about ten years.) After my mother's death in 2011, I completely lost interest in everything but becoming saved. I began to seek salvation full time. I had been under misconceptions about God and Christianity for several decades, and not seeking to become a Christian all that time. In the ten years since my mother's death, I have been actively seeking salvation but have still been laboring under major misconceptions. I finally got some misconceptions cleared up in the decade of seeking salvation.

    First of all, you have to realize that in no way do you want to end up in hell. Second, you have to realize that life as a child of God in eternity is wonderful beyond imagination. One of the toughest reads in the Bible, the book of Jude, near its end, says: "...now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy..." Exceeding joy! You do not want to miss out on that! In the Bible, it says of God, "In Thy presence is fullness of joy and at Thy right hand are pleasures forevermore." Pleasures forevermore! The Bible also says, "Humble yourself under the mighty hand of God and He will lift you up." The New Testament in particular talks of the glory that saved people will share and enjoy with Christ/God. So, for saved people, eternity will be full of joy, pleasure and glory. You have to see things such that you begin to want eternal life so badly that you can taste it! That's what happened with me.

    Now, for decades, I did not want eternal life badly enough. That's because my misconceptions led me to believe that to go to heaven, you have to pay an unbearable price in this life. It was either suffer terribly now, then go to heaven, or enjoy life now, then go to hell. Christians may suffer to varying extents, but God prepares them for this and supplies power to live through it. Paul learned to have joy NOW, in trials and weakness and, at times, poverty.

    Get as many Christians to pray for you as possible. Apparently, you are doing that. Then, motivated by a desire to avoid hell and go to heaven, keep earnestly seeking. Not arguing for the sake of argument, but sincerely seeking the truth. I have committed to praying for certain people every day. Now you are on that list.
  11. aiki

    aiki Regular Member

    Does it end? The Bible says it changes, the old giving way to the new. (2 Peter 3:10-13)

    ??? I'm not sure why you think you should be free to act just as you wish in God's universe. He made and sustains it at every moment; this seems to me to give Him the right to dictate to us how things will be in His Creation.

    We are tempted also by our own selfish nature. Satan would have nothing to work with in tempting us if we didn't have such a nature.

    Satan is just a created being with the capacity to choose for or against God - like you and I. Satan chose against God and, being an angelic being, has used his capacities as such to oppose his Maker. We do the very same thing. But our capacity to freely choose is necessary to loving Him.

    Satan doesn't get a "free pass" to torment humanity. His "bill" for the evil he has done will come due and it will be paid in full whether he wants to pay it or not. The torment of his punishment will continue for ever and ever, the Bible says. (See Revelation 12:12; Revelation 19:20; Revelation 20:10)

    Your view of God is far, far too small. God is Himself our "exceeding great reward." He is, after all, the Greatest Thing in all of Creation, greater than all of it combined. He vastly outstrips in every respect the best, the most amazing, things we can imagine or have experienced. And when we see Him face-to-face, those who love Him will find Him utterly and forever satisfying, truly the "great reward" He has told us that He is. Against what, then, could God possibly be "balanced"? Not all of Creation could equal in excellence and wonder the Lord God Almighty. You pine for a far lesser thing, a weak and shadowy alternative, when you wish for "some form of material pleasure" alongside the treasure of God Himself.

    Exodus 15:11
    11 "Who is like You among the gods, O LORD? Who is like You, majestic in holiness, Awesome in praises, working wonders?

    Psalm 71:19
    19 For Your righteousness, O God, reaches to the heavens, You who have done great things; O God, who is like You?

    2 Samuel 7:22
    22 "For this reason You are great, O Lord GOD; for there is none like You, and there is no God besides You, according to all that we have heard with our ears.

    Psalm 86:8-10
    8 There is no one like You among the gods, O Lord, Nor are there any works like Yours.
    9 All nations whom You have made shall come and worship before You, O Lord, And they shall glorify Your name.
    10 For You are great and do wondrous deeds; You alone are God.

    Satan is in no way the sort of "dictator" God is. If God is a "dictator," He is so as the Creator and Sustainer of Everything. Satan is not. God has made all there is and is the Ultimate Ground of its existence. Satan has no universe-making power and certainly no power to sustain a universe. God calls the shots because He is the Creator, because He is God Almighty. Satan, in contrast, is a usurper, a liar, a murderous sneak, who is nowhere near the class of being God is. God is perfect in holiness, love, mercy, justice and wisdom. Satan is a foul, self-deceived and deceiving wretch, soon to fall under God's eternal judgment. And so on.

    Who else should we depend on as the designer and law-giver of everything? Do you have a better, superior alternative to the perfect God of All?

    Your standard of comparison is rather...low, here.

    Only those who want God's way, who want God, will be in heaven with Him. Everyone else will find themselves getting the separation from God that they always wanted - forever. And so, those in heaven will not think of the absence of sin, of its tempting power, an evil thing, but a cause for great joy. They will delight in an existence where God's will is always desired and done.

    Uh, no. People go to hell because they have sinned, because they made selfish, evil choices against the command of God Almighty and have not repented of them. Level of knowledge and culture having nothing to do with God's punishment of wickedness. And our sin is "exceedingly sinful." It is so bad, in fact, that the only appropriate response to it is the eternal punishment of hell. It's hard, steeped in sin as we are, to recognize just how evil, how wickedly vile, our sin really is. We love our sin, we live in it every day and encourage others to join us in it, we don't even often see that our sin is, in fact, sin. How, then, do we point at God's punishment of our sin and say, "It's too much! You're being unfair! My sin wasn't that bad." Who is a better judge of wickedness? Those totally saturated with it, or God who is Light and in whom there is no darkness at all?

    SANTOSO Well-Known Member

    Dear one,
    Don’t turn away from Him who called to the grace of Christ, to a different gospel.
    Let us listen carefully to what apostles have preached and what we have received from the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Let us not seek after self love but let us be a bond servant of Christ, that seek not to please man but seek to please God.

    For the gospel that was preached by the apostles is not according to man. The apostles neither receive the gospel from man nor they were taught the gospel from man but they receive the gospel according to the REVELATION of Jesus Christ.

    Let us believe in Christ, that we might be justified by faith in Christ.

    Let us not set aside the grace of God; for Christ didn’t die in vain.

    For those who believe in Christ, we shall receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.

    Come, come, come back to the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ.