Excommunication

[AngelAmidala]

In the Icon/Indulgence thread, Wols talked about Martin Luther being excommunicated.

I just wanted to know, what are some of the things one could be excommunicated for? And is it a general practice today?

If it's easier, you can point me to websites with the information as opposed to posting.

The mention just got me curious.

 

[Kotton]

I just wanted to know, what are some of the things one could be excommunicated for? And is it a general practice today?

The general reason for excommunication would be HERESY. This is to be a wake-up call to repent and return to the Church and follow God's way. No partisipation in church life is allowed, thus putting you outside of salvation. Many who reject Church doctrine or persecute Christians could care less about excommunication, so they go their way and continue to sin.

We see little 'official' excommunication today- nameing people as heretics. There is automatic excommunication for knowingly committing a grievious sin, the most prominate today being abortion. Yet we see people claiming their 'right' and rejecting God's command.

Kotton

 

[Wolseley]

There are two ways for an excommunication to be incurred:
1) In cases of a canonical court case, or ferendae sententiae; which consists of a Church trial by three judges employing Catholic canon law. These cases are very rare nowadays, but examples of what might bring one about would be that of a lay Catholic or other unauthorized Catholic pretending to be a priest and actually celebrating a Mass; or of a legitimate priest violating the seal of Confession.

2) Various cases of grievous sin, which incur an automatic, or latae sententiae, excommunication. As Kotton pointed out, some examples are heresy or procuring an abortion; others would be apostasy, schism, violation of the Sacred Species (the Body and Blood of Christ in Holy Communion), clerical absolution of an accomplice in a crime, or committing physical violence on the Pope. Another example would be episcopal consecration without authorization from the Holy See, which is what happened to Archbishop Marcel LeFebvre in 1988, when he consecrated several "bishops" without the authorization of the Vatican. By that action, he officially placed himself in schism with the Roman Catholic Church, and all of the "bishops", "priests", and followers of his group, the "Society of St. Pius X", remain in schism to this day.

That's one of the higher-profile cases, but for the most part, excommunications are few and relatively low-key these days; the Vatican's goal is to correct and reconcile those who err, not slap them upside the head and throw them out of the Church. Rome will put up with a lot of nonsense from somebody before they step in and do something, and excommunication is usually the very last resort.

Blessings,
---Wols.

 

[AngelAmidala]

violation of the Sacred Species (the Body and Blood of Christ in Holy Communion),

How would one violate that?

the Holy See

What is that? I saw it mentioned a lot in my research for my Chaucer project, but didn't really read an explanation for it.

Thanks for answering all my questions so far! It's been really informative!

 

[Wolseley]

>>>>violation of the Sacred Species (the Body and Blood of Christ in Holy Communion)<<<<
How would one violate that?

Since Catholics believe that the bread and wine are the literal, real, actual Body and Blood of Jesus Christ, there is nothing holier. The Sacred Species could be violated by placing Them in the mouth and then spitting Them onto the floor; stepping on Them; using them in satanic rituals; throwing Them into the mud in the street, flushing Them down a toilet, etc. Such actions are horrific and unthinkable to any Catholic who truly loves the Church and the Lord.

>>>>the Holy See<<<<
What is that? I saw it mentioned a lot in my research for my Chaucer project, but didn't really read an explanation for it.

The Holy See is another name for the Vatican, or more specifically, the Pope's particular area of authority, which in this case means the whole Church. A "see" is a bishops' diocese, or where he holds jurisdiction within the framework of the Church. The name is a derivative of the Latin word sedes, meaning a "chair" or a "seat"; in one sense of the word, it's sort of like a county seat, the headquarters where everything is going on.

Thanks for answering all my questions so far! It's been really informative!

You're welcome! I hope it helps.

Blessings,
---Wols.

 

[LouisBooth]

"he Sacred Species could be violated by placing Them in the mouth and then spitting Them onto the floor; "

What if you sneeze okay okay...I'll take a corner for that one

 

[Wolseley]

If you sneeze, you cup your hands around your mouth to catch any particles, and ask the priest or the Eucharistic minister for the purificator (the small cloth used to wipe the sacred vessels) to wipe your hands on. You then should rinse your hands off in clean water as soon as possible.

Blessings,
---Wols.

 

[LouisBooth]

:lol: what an excellent save..I was just wondering if you sneezed and it flew out of your mouth. diving catch?

 

[Wolseley]

If you sneeze and It flies out of your mouth, then the particles are located and a clean purificator is laid over Them to prevent people from stepping on Them. After Mass, the particles are cleaned up and washed down the sacrarium (a special sink in the sacristy which goes directly into the ground, and not the waste water system), and the carpeting or flooring is blotted with water and the blotter is also rinsed in the sacrarium. The same thing applies for any droplets of Sacred Blood which are spilled on the floor. I used to be a Eucharistic minister, and occasionally these type of things would happen. Maybe it might sound hilarious, but remember, to Catholics, this is the actual Body and Blood of Christ. There have been instances of Catholic priests who were murdered by invading Communists because they didn't leave their churches in time to avoid capture---they stayed behind to consume the remaining Sacred Species in the church to avoid having Them fall into the hands of the Communists. It's a very serious business, to us.

Blessings,
---Wols.

 

[KC Catholic]

Louis -

Please refrain from mocking that we find very serious. I have asked you in private to keep the sarcasm and flip comments to a minimum.

You are treading into offending the Catholic's on this board. We take the host and how it is handled and treated with great respect and seriousness.

You may not, but that is your choice. Again, please refrain from such discussions.

Nuff said,
KC

 

[AngelAmidala]

Actually, even though it seemed he brought it up in a joking manner, it's something that could seriously happen. Right after I read his original post about sneezing, I thought, "Very funny Louis!" But then I thought more about it and was like, "What if that really did happen? I would be so embarassed!" And I knew from some of my religion classes at Marist the seriousness Catholics have towards all parts of their service, especially communion. So I actually was hoping that someone would provide an answer, like Wols did, as to what would happen in that case.

I do have another question about communion, but since that really has nothing to do with excommunication, I'll start a new topic.

 

[KC Catholic]

Sorry -

Guess I was being a bit sensitive about it. Of course its a major concern and possibily embarrasing to the person involved.

Most times, it will be handled very discreetly so as to not draw attention to the situation. I've witnessed people carry the host back to their seat. I've seen people hold it in their hands and examine it before finally ingesting it.

Since we believe its the actual body of Christ we are very concerned and sensitive as to how it is handled.

Again, sorry if I jumped the gun here.

 

[LouisBooth]

"It's a very serious business, to us."

I agree, it is a seriuos think to catholics. My appologies anyway KC, I did not mean to mock it. I was just wondering really and I usually try to take off the edge by presenting it in a more light hearted way that sometimes I come off as making of something..I would guess (seeing it in your reaction) I very very very much appolgize and I ask for your forgiveness.

 

[KC Catholic]

Louis -

I was being a bit overly sensitive, so please forgive me for jumping out there. I made a mistake today and visited a former website that many folks know here by name.

I took it out on you - I apologize.

 

[LouisBooth]

funny how christians get in appolgy fights I'll accept yours if you accept mine